quote:

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Originally posted by 87MclarenMustang:
I do know that midway through the video he had been tazered and didnt need to be continually struck with a baton at the time!

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quote:

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Originally posted by rgtrahn:
The audio is more powerful than the video. The officers can clearly be heard repeatidly saying, "Get on your stomach!" Even the people recording can be heard saying, "Roll over." A subject lying on his back with his head up and foot out ready to strike is far from complying and can easily be articulated as a threat to those officers.

A kick from that subject to the front of a knee cap can easily cause a career ending injury, a kick to the hand while trying to grab that extended leg can easily break a hand. A kick to the face/ head can easily cause serious injury.

Sure, its easy to Monday morning quarterback the force used. Some might suggest the officers on-scene could have piled on the black fog, but the same critics that are arguing excessive force in this scenario would be same critics arguing that the fog is excessive force. It's like asking why an officer involved in a shooting does not try and shoot a arm or leg. These officers are not aiming for their strikes at the face or torso of the subject. The officers are clearly attempting to strike the legs and arms of the subject. If in the process, the subject attempts to block or avoid a strike and is hit in the torso, head, ect, it's his own fault and it happens.

Furthermore, all that we have to go on is a small grainey video and the audio. Do you know if the subject was under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Do you know the training or experience of the subject? Do you know the subject did not have any weapons? Do you know the training or experience of the officers?

Really, it's a rather simply use of force. Had the subject complied, he could have avoided the entire use of force incident.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NEIGHT:
Then cops wonder why people blast them.

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Then people like yourself wonder why cops are on such high alert/. Over react over the smallest amount of non cooperative commands.
This is the big vicious cycle of cops vs citizens. I've seen, heard & have been on both sides of this problem. My brother was sued once by a drug dealer who acused him of throwing him over a fense, causing him to become paralyzed. ( This was after he sold crack to an undercover officer.)

What really happened is he was halfway over the fense, with one leg kicked my brother in the head and fell over the fense causing the injury.

Good old John Burrass was his lawyer in court.
 

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Posted by crazyhorse (Member # 5662) on :
 
This video is one sided, stupid media only shows this but never showed when the guy threw a punch at a cop.
 

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Posted by i (Member # 12534) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by NEIGHT:
Then cops wonder why people blast them.

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+1 Should of roll over tho...
 

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Posted by FiveOhChuck (Member # 12588) on :
 
Maybe they should have tazed him from the beginning?? But I guess cops beating the hell out of someone is okay.
 

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Posted by red5o (Member # 12651) on :
 
So all those trained police officers can't get him to roll over instead just beat the shit out of him is better
 

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Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
Meanwhile in the real world cops have been required to wear cameras and what do you know.....60% drop in citizen complaints and 40% drop in excessive force.

Cops are just criminals behind badges but like criminals you have soft and you have hard ones.

I remember my 2002 pleasant hill PD beating very well. One on one they were paranoid.
 

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Posted by rgtrahn (Member # 7133) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by turbo50:
Meanwhile in the real world cops have been required to wear cameras and what do you know.....60% drop in citizen complaints and 40% drop in excessive force.

Cops are just criminals behind badges but like criminals you have soft and you have hard ones.

I remember my 2002 pleasant hill PD beating very well. One on one they were paranoid.

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quote:

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Originally posted by turbo50:


Cops are just criminals behind badges but like criminals you have soft and you have hard ones.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rgtrahn:
The audio is more powerful than the video. The officers can clearly be heard repeatidly saying, "Get on your stomach!" Even the people recording can be heard saying, "Roll over." A subject lying on his back with his head up and foot out ready to strike is far from complying and can easily be articulated as a threat to those officers.

A kick from that subject to the front of a knee cap can easily cause a career ending injury, a kick to the hand while trying to grab that extended leg can easily break a hand. A kick to the face/ head can easily cause serious injury.

Sure, its easy to Monday morning quarterback the force used. Some might suggest the officers on-scene could have piled on the black fog, but the same critics that are arguing excessive force in this scenario would be same critics arguing that the fog is excessive force. It's like asking why an officer involved in a shooting does not try and shoot a arm or leg. These officers are not aiming for their strikes at the face or torso of the subject. The officers are clearly attempting to strike the legs and arms of the subject. If in the process, the subject attempts to block or avoid a strike and is hit in the torso, head, ect, it's his own fault and it happens.

Furthermore, all that we have to go on is a small grainey video and the audio. Do you know if the subject was under the influence of drugs or alcohol? Do you know the training or experience of the subject? Do you know the subject did not have any weapons? Do you know the training or experience of the officers?

Really, it's a rather simply use of force. Had the subject complied, he could have avoided the entire use of force incident.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NEIGHT:
Then cops wonder why people blast them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rgtrahn:

quote:

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Originally posted by turbo50:
Meanwhile in the real world cops have been required to wear cameras and what do you know.....60% drop in citizen complaints and 40% drop in excessive force.

Cops are just criminals behind badges but like criminals you have soft and you have hard ones.

I remember my 2002 pleasant hill PD beating very well. One on one they were paranoid.

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I'm not sure where your numbers come from, but I have never heard of those type of figures. Truth is, when you're out enfrocing laws, not everyone is going to be happy. Espically, the ones going to jail or receiving tickets.

Many agencies do wear cameras on their person or mounted in their patrol vehicles. Although I do not wear a camera or have a camera in my vehicle, I am an advocate for them. I have nothing to hide and when a baseless complaint arrives on my supervisors desk because someone is mad I was doing my job by ticketing or arresting them there is audio / video to substantiate what I wrote in my notes or report.

You call it paranoid, I call it being safe. I'm not on patrol in the streets to get into a bar fight to see who has the bigger... I know what my limitations are and I know I'm not a superhero. Many times, the people I contact are under the influence of alcohol / drugs, have mental health issues, have more training in "MMA" and ultimately, they do not want to go to jail. It would be unfair to my family if I was careless and unsafe out there.

For examole, a lot of times both in my experience and in studies, the moment an officer goes hands on to conduct a search for weapons or ect. The fight is on. In every contact there is a gun. If an officer is alone without a cover unit and is knocked out or injured a suspect could easily take an officers taser, baton / asp or firearm.

After loosing my academy mate and friend earlier this year to a gunshot wound to the head, I am more vigilant now than ever.

I would challenge those of you who have had a bad experience with law enforcement, real or fictitious to go on a ride along with your local agencies. At the sametime, as you read threads such as this you have to discredit comments from people like Neight who representing themselves to be a northerner / gangmember.

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