Originally posted by macthizzle:
I JUST THINK THE WHOLE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS FUCKED UP. I THINK 5-9 YEARS IS FAIR. 2 YEARS IS GETTING OFF THE HOOK TOO EASY.DRUG CONVICTIONS GET MORE TIME THAN MURDER
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
. BE PREPARED FOR RIOTS. quote:
A judge sentenced former BART police Officer Johannes Mehserle today to the minimum term of two years in state prison for fatally shooting unarmed train rider Oscar Grant during a video-recorded arrest in Oakland on Jan. 1, 2009.
A jury in Los Angeles County, where the trial was moved, found Mehserle guilty of involuntary manslaughter in July, acquitting him of the more serious charges of murder and voluntary manslaughter. Mehserle testified that he killed Grant accidentally, after mistaking his service pistol and his Taser.
The verdict meant that jurors concluded that Mehserle, 28, did not intend to kill Grant, 22, when he shot him in the back at Fruitvale Station, but acted negligently and took his life unlawfully.
The jury also found that Mehserle, a Napa County resident, had used a gun during the crime. However, Judge Robert Perry threw out the gun conviction today, saying it was not supported by the evidence, and gave Mehserle two years for the involuntary manslaughter conviction, the shortest term possible.
The judge said he believed Mehserle when he testified during the trial that the shooting had been an accident.
With credit for time he has already served behind bars, Mehserle would be eligible for release in about seven months.
The judge's decision infuriated members of Grant's family, some of whom left the downtown Los Angeles courtroom in tears. Grant's mother, Wanda Johnson, and Sophina Mesa, the mother of Grant's 6-year-old daughter, stalked out before Perry finished his remarks.
John Burris, an attorney for Grant's family, said at a news conference afterward that the message to African Americans in the Mehserle case is that "your life ... can be taken from you with no just cause and no price to pay." Mehserle is white, while Grant was black.
Cephus Johnson, an uncle of Grant's, said angrily, "I knew what the judge was going to say even before he said it. This whole thing was argued before we got here today."
Mehserle, wearing an orange jail suit and his hands manacled, showed no reaction to the sentence. Some of his relatives in the gallery cried.
In remarks to the court before sentencing, Mehserle said, "I did not become an officer to take a life, but because it gave me the opportunity to protect and save lives. I pray the public can understand that police officers are also human."
He added, "I am deeply sorry. I am. ... Nothing I can ever do will heal the wound I have created."
In his sentencing remarks, Perry made it plain that he saw the case more in the light of how the defense had portrayed it than from the prosecution's point of view.
He said Grant was resisting BART police after being detained at the Fruitvale Station in Oakland for allegedly fighting on a train. The judge said that when he moved to arrest Grant, Mehserle clearly intended to grab his Taser shock weapon instead of his gun.
Testimony during the trial showed that Mehserle had announced he was going to use the Taser, the judge noted. He quoted the testimony of one of Grant's friends, who said that after Mehserle fired a single shot into Grant's back, he said, "Oh s-, oh s-, I shot him."
"Mehserle's muscle memory took over in this moment of great danger and stress," Perry said. "No reasonable trier of fact could have concluded that Mehserle intentionally fired his gun."
Mehserle's possible sentence for involuntary manslaughter was two, three or four years, plus three, four or 10 years for the gun enhancement. The defense pushed for Mehserle's release on probation, which state law allows in involuntary manslaughter cases that are considered unusual.
The two sides had disagreed on what the jury signaled with its verdict. The defense said jurors showed they believed Mehserle's Taser story when they rejected murder and voluntary manslaughter, both of which require an intent to kill.
Prosecutors disagreed. They said jurors had found that Mehserle did not intend to kill Grant, but that he had meant to shoot him. The gun enhancement, prosecutors noted, required the panel to find that Mehserle had fired a gun on purpose.
Defense attorneys believe the jury misapplied the gun enhancement after it was poorly explained to them.
During trial, prosecutor David Stein said Mehserle had "lost all control" of his emotions before the shooting. The defense said he had made a mistake under pressure and cast blame on poor training at BART - particularly on the agency's Taser training, which Mehserle received a month before the shooting - and on the character of Grant, who had spent time in prison.
Grant had been detained at about 2 a.m. that New Year's Day, along with four friends, for fighting on a Dublin-Pleasanton train. Within minutes, Mehserle's then-colleague on the BART force, Anthony Pirone, reported that Grant had resisted him and ordered his arrest. Stein argued that the arrest itself was unlawful because Grant had cooperated.
Mehserle then moved to handcuff Grant as he lay on his chest, but struggled to pull back the Hayward man's right arm before standing up and pulling out his pistol.
Taking the stand near the end of the trial, Mehserle testified that he had decided to use his Taser because he saw Grant put his right hand in his pants pocket and believed he might be reaching for a gun.
Mehserle said he had accidentally pulled out his pistol and fired before realizing he had grabbed the wrong weapon.
Mehserle's shooting of Grant was witnessed by scores of New Year's revelers, several of whom recorded it on cell-phone cameras.
The trial was moved to Los Angeles in an effort to find impartial jurors. In the Bay Area, many community leaders, activists and others saw the shooting as a window into a larger problem of police officers abusing people of color with little accountability.
Today's sentencing "will have a detrimental impact on the relationship between the police and the African American community," said Burris, the Grant family attorney. "It only says there is no bridge here."
The sentencing is not the final word on Grant's death. The U.S. Justice Department has said that its civil rights division, along with the U.S. attorney's office and the FBI, will investigate the shooting "to determine whether the evidence warrants federal prosecution."
Pirone and his partner the night of the shooting, Marysol Domenici, were fired earlier this year by BART - Pirone for his actions on the train platform and Domenici for the way she reported the incident to investigators. Their appeals are pending.
BART agreed in January to pay $1.5 million in a civil settlement to Grant's daughter, Tatiana Grant. But Grant's mother, along with several of his friends who were with him when he was shot, still have pending lawsuits that may go to trial.
quote:yeah,I agree it was a mistake on Mehserle's part...shit bag or not, you can't put blame onto Oscar Grant for getting shot in the back while cuffed on the ground.
Originally posted by fasthatch:
good for him he was doing his job an made a mistake.if mr.grant had did what he was told to do he would still be here
. BE PREPARED FOR RIOTS.
quote:For an acquittal yes. I don't anticipate anything major.
Originally posted by macthizzle:
BE PREPARED FOR RIOTS.
quote:^ he shot himself with an illegally con firearm..... That's why he got time.
Originally posted by N8:
Its sad, justice is so misguided these days.
This song says it all. And this verdict proves why it is timeless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQU4torUz-Q
But think about it. Plaxico Burress shot himself and got more time. Sad.
quote:Irony at its finest. On one hand you speak about the misplaced race card. Then you pull it in a imaginary scenario....lol. Classic.
Originally posted by 89point.:
I say who gives a shit.. The fam and everyone else made this shit about race.. The same people mad now wouldn't care one bit if it had been a white guy who got shot, and I think if it was a black cop and a white kid who got shot u wouldn't see Dublin/w.c/ an other white dominant cities rioting or even making it into the big deal it now is. I hope now that there has been a sentencing that within a week everyone will stop talking about it.
quote:BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA!!!!!
Originally posted by N8:
Well one good thing is life will do life. And he wont get very far in life. He will wear this scarlet letter forever. I wont be surprised if he ends up killing himself or getting killed. Only he and God knew his true intentions. And while I am disappointed in this verdict. It does not shock me. And just goes to show that we have a black president but we have so far to go on so many planes. But like the late great Sam Cooke said, "A Change Gonna Come".
quote:I have no issue with your comment. I just thought it was funny how you managed to use the race card to support your point about misplaced use of the race card. One thing I have come to understand about people is once they have put on their rose colored glasses there is no taking them off. Your opinion is well noted
Originally posted by 89point.:
U can call it irony or whatever u want but I call it the truth, this whole trial was not over a young man losing his life not being able to be in his daughters life or do anything great possible with his life.. NOPE.. It's a white honkey cop came along and had a bad day and decided to shoot this guy for fun and cause he was black blah blah blah.. Spin it anyway u want but yes it was turned into a race thing and for u n8 so I come off a lil more clear to u if all the parties were orange it woulda never been a big deal or public or craziness like it is now..
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
quote:I remember this vividly. I actually fought with a cousin of mine because I felt strongly OJ did that shit and got away with murder.
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
....Reminds me a lot of the OJ case.
![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
im out its friday and ima about to get my drink on!
quote:
Originally posted by RED@7kVERT *8850GT*:
Can everyone just shut the fuck up and stop with the racial cards?? It's 2010 not 1934.... Slavery was abolished a long time ago. Theres racism everywhere, towards ALL walks of life. It's a fact. This is a cut n dry case of an honest mistake. If you think otherwise, please refer back to the first sentence.
![[worship]](graemlins/worship.gif)
quote:maybe if he murder someone then yeah 2 years would be fucked up.. but since he didn't.. he got what he should of..
Originally posted by macthizzle:
I JUST THINK THE WHOLE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS FUCKED UP. I THINK 5-9 YEARS IS FAIR. 2 YEARS IS GETTING OFF THE HOOK TOO EASY.DRUG CONVICTIONS GET MORE TIME THAN MURDER
quote:yup.. same goes for you.. and your take on it.. noted..
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I have no issue with your comment. I just thought it was funny how you managed to use the race card to support your point about misplaced use of the race card. One thing I have come to understand about people is once they have put on their rose colored glasses there is no taking them off. Your opinion is well noted
Originally posted by 89point.:
U can call it irony or whatever u want but I call it the truth, this whole trial was not over a young man losing his life not being able to be in his daughters life or do anything great possible with his life.. NOPE.. It's a white honkey cop came along and had a bad day and decided to shoot this guy for fun and cause he was black blah blah blah.. Spin it anyway u want but yes it was turned into a race thing and for u n8 so I come off a lil more clear to u if all the parties were orange it woulda never been a big deal or public or craziness like it is now..
and everyone here knows what side of the fence your on.. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
quote:Anyone that does anything to him or his family is just as guilty as he is.
Originally posted by AL STOCK:
It's OK - Let him walk after a few months. I can gurantee you that KARMA will bite him the ass 10x harder
Remember he has a family too
quote:Put the card back in your pocket
Originally posted by N8:
And just goes to show that we have a black president but we have so far to go on so many planes.
quote:You basically just quoted my other post. So I do not think you know what side of the fence I am on.....lol. You even used my phrase "The scarlett letter"....hahahahahaha
Originally posted by warhorse58gt:
quote:yup.. same goes for you.. and your take on it.. noted..
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I have no issue with your comment. I just thought it was funny how you managed to use the race card to support your point about misplaced use of the race card. One thing I have come to understand about people is once they have put on their rose colored glasses there is no taking them off. Your opinion is well noted
Originally posted by 89point.:
U can call it irony or whatever u want but I call it the truth, this whole trial was not over a young man losing his life not being able to be in his daughters life or do anything great possible with his life.. NOPE.. It's a white honkey cop came along and had a bad day and decided to shoot this guy for fun and cause he was black blah blah blah.. Spin it anyway u want but yes it was turned into a race thing and for u n8 so I come off a lil more clear to u if all the parties were orange it woulda never been a big deal or public or craziness like it is now..
and no matter what people think.. this guy is scared for life.. he will wear that scarlet letter the rest of his life.. his life will never be the same.. and if it was truely a accident.. just think of the guilt this guy will carry the rest of his life...
quote:May seem like a race card, but it indeed is not. The many planes I speak of go beyond race. It transcends socio-economic boundaries, civic boundaries and much more. But of course you guys would harp on the one part of my statement that contains the word black. It's all good, but I have friends that are BART PD and other law enforcement agencies. And my folks goes to work with the repercussions of this cats mistake/intentions (which we will never know which is which). So others have to live in fear because of his actions and the resulting judgment.
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
quote:Put the card back in your pocket
Originally posted by N8:
And just goes to show that we have a black president but we have so far to go on so many planes.
quote:he was hand cuffed after he was shot an that a policy all police dept use.so thaks for playing
Originally posted by 68stanger:
quote:yeah,I agree it was a mistake on Mehserle's part...shit bag or not, you can't put blame onto Oscar Grant for getting shot in the back while cuffed on the ground.
Originally posted by fasthatch:
good for him he was doing his job an made a mistake.if mr.grant had did what he was told to do he would still be here
quote:i know i did it on perpose..
Originally posted by N8:
quote:You basically just quoted my other post. So I do not think you know what side of the fence I am on.....lol. You even used my phrase "The scarlett letter"....hahahahahaha
Originally posted by warhorse58gt:
quote:yup.. same goes for you.. and your take on it.. noted..
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I have no issue with your comment. I just thought it was funny how you managed to use the race card to support your point about misplaced use of the race card. One thing I have come to understand about people is once they have put on their rose colored glasses there is no taking them off. Your opinion is well noted
Originally posted by 89point.:
U can call it irony or whatever u want but I call it the truth, this whole trial was not over a young man losing his life not being able to be in his daughters life or do anything great possible with his life.. NOPE.. It's a white honkey cop came along and had a bad day and decided to shoot this guy for fun and cause he was black blah blah blah.. Spin it anyway u want but yes it was turned into a race thing and for u n8 so I come off a lil more clear to u if all the parties were orange it woulda never been a big deal or public or craziness like it is now..
and no matter what people think.. this guy is scared for life.. he will wear that scarlet letter the rest of his life.. his life will never be the same.. and if it was truely a accident.. just think of the guilt this guy will carry the rest of his life...
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
you like it right..? but the fact is you also have rose colored glass on as you say..quote:I love it!!
Originally posted by warhorse58gt:
quote:i know i did it on perpose..
Originally posted by N8:
quote:You basically just quoted my other post. So I do not think you know what side of the fence I am on.....lol. You even used my phrase "The scarlett letter"....hahahahahaha
Originally posted by warhorse58gt:
quote:yup.. same goes for you.. and your take on it.. noted..
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I have no issue with your comment. I just thought it was funny how you managed to use the race card to support your point about misplaced use of the race card. One thing I have come to understand about people is once they have put on their rose colored glasses there is no taking them off. Your opinion is well noted
Originally posted by 89point.:
U can call it irony or whatever u want but I call it the truth, this whole trial was not over a young man losing his life not being able to be in his daughters life or do anything great possible with his life.. NOPE.. It's a white honkey cop came along and had a bad day and decided to shoot this guy for fun and cause he was black blah blah blah.. Spin it anyway u want but yes it was turned into a race thing and for u n8 so I come off a lil more clear to u if all the parties were orange it woulda never been a big deal or public or craziness like it is now..
and no matter what people think.. this guy is scared for life.. he will wear that scarlet letter the rest of his life.. his life will never be the same.. and if it was truely a accident.. just think of the guilt this guy will carry the rest of his life...
and it is a shitty place for both familys.
quote:N8, although there are examples here and there of people actually believing OJ did not commit those two murders, the opinion that he did is overwhelming regardless if you are white, black, male, female, rich, or poor. You and I know what happened that night as did Johnny Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Judge Ito, the guy who drove the white Bronco during the low speed police chase, Chris Rock, etc etc etc, lol. Unfortunately, everything was thrown out the door (perjury & suspicion of falsified evidence).
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I remember this vividly. I actually fought with a cousin of mine because I felt strongly OJ did that shit and got away with murder.
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
....Reminds me a lot of the OJ case.
quote:Luke you are officially my favorite member
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
quote:N8, although there are examples here and there of people actually believing OJ did not commit those two murders, the opinion that he did is overwhelming regardless if you are white, black, male, female, rich, or poor. You and I know what happened that night as did Johnny Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Judge Ito, the guy who drove the white Bronco during the low speed police chase, Chris Rock, etc etc etc, lol. Unfortunately, everything was thrown out the door (perjury & suspicion of falsified evidence).
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I remember this vividly. I actually fought with a cousin of mine because I felt strongly OJ did that shit and got away with murder.
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
....Reminds me a lot of the OJ case.
I recall watching the verdict on TV while sitting in a diverse high school classroom in Berkeley, CA. When the verdict came in, the classroom split between black and white. The black kids were screaming, cheering, and slapping hi-fives while the white kids were putting their head down in disbelief of what just happened. It was a very eye opening experience for me regarding race relations. I'm sure many high schools across the state shared a similar reaction. It was like Chris Rock joked, "Black people, WE WON!" Regardless of the circumstances, "we won" with the cards stacked against us!
Chris Rock goes on to deliver one of the most famous lines of his career, "He (Ron Goldman) was known to drive around in her Ferrari that OJ bought her ... I'm not saying that he should have killed her, but I understand"
Classic Rock, LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXJJFT9GZwY
Getting back on track with the Mehserle-Grant case, I go back and forth and struggle with this one. On one hand, shooting a suspect in the back while he lays on his stomach is completely inexcusable. There is just no way this can be justified.
However, it's difficult for me to identify with Oscar Grant... not for his race, but for who he was and what he was doing the night he was killed. For the past 20+yrs I've been riding BART regularly at all hours and routinely see youngsters running up and down the isles, drunk, causing trouble, stirring up controversy, and disrupting other riders. On the other hand I've never had any serious altercations with police that I didn't bring upon myself. So it's very natural for me to sway in one direction in this case. Combine that with two felony prison terms prior to this case for Grant, and well... well it goes without saying I guess.
If I felt like I had been regularly mistreated by law enforcement, I could easily see myself opposing the men in blue and more easily identify with Grant.
Going back to my original comment about there is no excuse to shoot someone in the back, Mehserle rightly has been convicted. The sentencing is not what the Grant supporters wanted, and it's not what the Mehsrle supporters wanted.
When the smoke clears the following glarring lessons stick out of me:
- Police need adequate training to reduce the possibility of something like this happening again.
- If you are a burden on society, cause trouble, create disruptions, oppose law enforcement, you are playing with fire.
(I kid). The funny thing that I see as a constant, is ones that are for this judgment or against Oscar Grant. Have no ties what so ever to Oakland. And as a whole tend to sit on a perch and judge the city. Luke I admire you for being able measure your opinion with your experience in the area and also identifying where you opinion lacks depth. To that I say
quote:
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
quote:N8, although there are examples here and there of people actually believing OJ did not commit those two murders, the opinion that he did is overwhelming regardless if you are white, black, male, female, rich, or poor. You and I know what happened that night as did Johnny Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Judge Ito, the guy who drove the white Bronco during the low speed police chase, Chris Rock, etc etc etc, lol. Unfortunately, everything was thrown out the door (perjury & suspicion of falsified evidence).
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I remember this vividly. I actually fought with a cousin of mine because I felt strongly OJ did that shit and got away with murder.
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
....Reminds me a lot of the OJ case.
I recall watching the verdict on TV while sitting in a diverse high school classroom in Berkeley, CA. When the verdict came in, the classroom split between black and white. The black kids were screaming, cheering, and slapping hi-fives while the white kids were putting their head down in disbelief of what just happened. It was a very eye opening experience for me regarding race relations. I'm sure many high schools across the state shared a similar reaction. It was like Chris Rock joked, "Black people, WE WON!" Regardless of the circumstances, "we won" with the cards stacked against us!
Chris Rock goes on to deliver one of the most famous lines of his career, "He (Ron Goldman) was known to drive around in her Ferrari that OJ bought her ... I'm not saying that he should have killed her, but I understand"
Classic Rock, LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXJJFT9GZwY
Getting back on track with the Mehserle-Grant case, I go back and forth and struggle with this one. On one hand, shooting a suspect in the back while he lays on his stomach is completely inexcusable. There is just no way this can be justified.
However, it's difficult for me to identify with Oscar Grant... not for his race, but for who he was and what he was doing the night he was killed. For the past 20+yrs I've been riding BART regularly at all hours and routinely see youngsters running up and down the isles, drunk, causing trouble, stirring up controversy, and disrupting other riders. On the other hand I've never had any serious altercations with police that I didn't bring upon myself. So it's very natural for me to sway in one direction in this case. Combine that with two felony prison terms prior to this case for Grant, and well... well it goes without saying I guess.
If I felt like I had been regularly mistreated by law enforcement, I could easily see myself opposing the men in blue and more easily identify with Grant.
Going back to my original comment about there is no excuse to shoot someone in the back, Mehserle rightly has been convicted. The sentencing is not what the Grant supporters wanted, and it's not what the Mehsrle supporters wanted.
When the smoke clears the following glarring lessons stick out of me:
- Police need adequate training to reduce the possibility of something like this happening again.
- If you are a burden on society, cause trouble, create disruptions, oppose law enforcement, you are playing with fire.
quote:Just a thought, but if this was really the issue, why is there no other public outrage from the same community, regarding the other 300+ people killed in Oakland over the past three years. There are no protests, demonstrations, or even posts on this message board about the other senseless deaths.
Originally posted by N8:
May seem like a race card, but it indeed is not. The many planes I speak of go beyond race. It transcends socio-economic boundaries, civic boundaries and much more. But of course you guys would harp on the one part of my statement that contains the word black.
Just all around a bad situation for 2 families, a city, a community and a civil service agency.
quote:well said!
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
quote:N8, although there are examples here and there of people actually believing OJ did not commit those two murders, the opinion that he did is overwhelming regardless if you are white, black, male, female, rich, or poor. You and I know what happened that night as did Johnny Cochran, Robert Shapiro, Judge Ito, the guy who drove the white Bronco during the low speed police chase, Chris Rock, etc etc etc, lol. Unfortunately, everything was thrown out the door (perjury & suspicion of falsified evidence).
Originally posted by N8:
quote:I remember this vividly. I actually fought with a cousin of mine because I felt strongly OJ did that shit and got away with murder.
Originally posted by Luke87GT:
....Reminds me a lot of the OJ case.
I recall watching the verdict on TV while sitting in a diverse high school classroom in Berkeley, CA. When the verdict came in, the classroom split between black and white. The black kids were screaming, cheering, and slapping hi-fives while the white kids were putting their head down in disbelief of what just happened. It was a very eye opening experience for me regarding race relations. I'm sure many high schools across the state shared a similar reaction. It was like Chris Rock joked, "Black people, WE WON!" Regardless of the circumstances, "we won" with the cards stacked against us!
Chris Rock goes on to deliver one of the most famous lines of his career, "He (Ron Goldman) was known to drive around in her Ferrari that OJ bought her ... I'm not saying that he should have killed her, but I understand"
Classic Rock, LOL.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXJJFT9GZwY
Getting back on track with the Mehserle-Grant case, I go back and forth and struggle with this one. On one hand, shooting a suspect in the back while he lays on his stomach is completely inexcusable. There is just no way this can be justified.
However, it's difficult for me to identify with Oscar Grant... not for his race, but for who he was and what he was doing the night he was killed. For the past 20+yrs I've been riding BART regularly at all hours and routinely see youngsters running up and down the isles, drunk, causing trouble, stirring up controversy, and disrupting other riders. On the other hand I've never had any serious altercations with police that I didn't bring upon myself. So it's very natural for me to sway in one direction in this case. Combine that with two felony prison terms prior to this case for Grant, and well... well it goes without saying I guess.
If I felt like I had been regularly mistreated by law enforcement, I could easily see myself opposing the men in blue and more easily identify with Grant.
Going back to my original comment about there is no excuse to shoot someone in the back, Mehserle rightly has been convicted. The sentencing is not what the Grant supporters wanted, and it's not what the Mehsrle supporters wanted.
When the smoke clears the following glarring lessons stick out of me:
- Police need adequate training to reduce the possibility of something like this happening again.
- If you are a burden on society, cause trouble, create disruptions, oppose law enforcement, you are playing with fire.