This is topic OBAMA VS MCCAIN in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by kingroy (Member # 7736) on :
 
DEBATE AT 6PM
 

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Posted by lambonotch (Member # 5758) on :
 
McCain09.................and yes he won the debate!
 

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Posted by NiftyWhiteFifty (Member # 4320) on :
 
Overall a decent debate. I don't think mccain capitalized on obama's controversial and radical associations and cronies as much as he should have. If obama is elected my biggest fear is who his appointees will be.

[ October 08, 2008, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: NiftyWhiteFifty ]
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
McCain did pretty well actually. I still am not diggin his stance on Alternative Energy, education and the war. I don't think either however did anything earth shaking to sway anyone who is on the fence.

I really hate how McCain talks tho. He whistles at the end of sentences. I actually listened to it rather than watch. And it made things a lot more interesting.
 

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Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
I think Mccain did alot better in this debate than the last one. I think it was pretty even personally but maybe give a slight edge to Obama.
 

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Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on :
 
They didn't cover enough for me to decide yet. I do like MC's tax plan better than Obama's. And I like his health plan better. Why tax the rich to pay for everyones downfalls? That isn't fair. Why punish those that make $250k a year or more? We are all in this shit hole mess so we should all be putting fourth taxes if that is the case. And with healthcare....I agree with MC that it is a responsibility. Do you know how many programs are out there for people to obtain healthcare? Did you know that it is just about impossible for a child not to have healthcare with what is out there for low income families. There are ways to get covered so I feel it is a responsibility to go out and obtain it BECAUSE everyone has the right to healthcare.

I think Obama says what he thinks you want to hear but I'm afraid of what he will fail to do in office more than what he will do in office the same way I fear what MC might do in office as much as what he will fail to do. Does that make sence?
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
So far everything I read is reporting McCain basically lost the debate because he didn't uproot or shake Obama or his ideals. I figured this one was a draw. I just wish they would both really answer the questions. Sometimes they dance around it. I didn't like Obama's response to the use of force when national security is not at stake. McCain nailed that one.
 

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Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
So far everything I read is reporting McCain basically lost the debate because he didn't uproot or shake Obama or his ideals. I figured this one was a draw. I just wish they would both really answer the questions. Sometimes they dance around it. I didn't like Obama's response to the use of force when national security is not at stake. McCain nailed that one.

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I agree that MC didn't shake up Obama too, but I don't think he is easily shaken during these types of debates (town hall). My wife agree's with you Nate on Obama's national security response. I missed that part as kids were throwing crayons at each other last night, but I kind of fear what Obama would not do if we were yet again attacked by terrorist groups in the US. Do you really think he has the backbone to fight for the US or just try and talk his way out of shit until his term is up. I also dont' want MC to be a war happy fuck like Bush is. I'm still in the air on who to go with
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jdub07:

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
So far everything I read is reporting McCain basically lost the debate because he didn't uproot or shake Obama or his ideals. I figured this one was a draw. I just wish they would both really answer the questions. Sometimes they dance around it. I didn't like Obama's response to the use of force when national security is not at stake. McCain nailed that one.

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I agree that MC didn't shake up Obama too, but I don't think he is easily shaken during these types of debates (town hall). My wife agree's with you Nate on Obama's national security response. I missed that part as kids were throwing crayons at each other last night, but I kind of fear what Obama would not do if we were yet again attacked by terrorist groups in the US. Do you really think he has the backbone to fight for the US or just try and talk his way out of shit until his term is up. I also dont' want MC to be a war happy fuck like Bush is. I'm still in the air on who to go with

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I think he can, because if you check out his stance. It is not so much the war itself. But how it got diluted and mis-directed. MC, just seems to a chip off of Bush's old block. I think if somehow MC can shake the link to Bush he may fair better. I think he will be too quick to George Bush that button. But I do see where you are coming from on Obama trying to talk us out of stuff. But you have to admit, he is a very good speaker. Which is another reason I like him. He is very authoritative and articulate and a very good listener. Although I am for the most part still going Obama to this moment. I am still holding out for MC to say something that can move me.
 

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Posted by AL STOCK (Member # 1852) on :
 
Thats what i call a true debate, the last debate McCain looked like an idiot.

This one, McCain took stance, although i'm still not convince with McCains "resolutions", his speeches are more of robobtic and it reflects back to Bush's speech with all the same old ideas with the old century. The whole speech with "creating jobs! Fixing our economy! Restore America" sounds like

But i do give him props, he did throw out some facts on "the problems in America today is that people of America don't have trust and confidence in our instiution because of the corruption in the Wallstreets and the greed at the Washington DC"

Obama's speeches were more of direct resolution and fixing the problems today and i liked his "here's what i would do and this is my plan" and he responded with those plans for almost every question asked.

I also didnt agree with McCain on War On Terrorism, his plans with this war is "working with the Iraqi people gaining their trust and then throwing the terrorists over". What McCain fails to understand is that we have no reason to be in Iraq in the first place, we were after Bin Laden as of 2001, all of a sudden we decided to cut over to Iraq because we thougnt Bin Laden is there and that Iraq has WMDs and yet we are failing to accomplish our original strategy to get Bin Laden.

He mentions "Walk and talk softly BUT carry a big stick" which again, i disagree, how are you going to walk and talk softly when you are already focusing on Iran and North Korea? I can only imagine what will happen to America if he takes chair and takes on Iran. What will happen to Afghanistan? Iraq? Are we just going to dump Iraq just like how we did Afghanistan and move over to another country when we didnt even finish Afganistan?


Obama all the way

[ October 08, 2008, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: AL STOCK ]
 

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Posted by NiftyWhiteFifty (Member # 4320) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jdub07:

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
So far everything I read is reporting McCain basically lost the debate because he didn't uproot or shake Obama or his ideals. I figured this one was a draw. I just wish they would both really answer the questions. Sometimes they dance around it. I didn't like Obama's response to the use of force when national security is not at stake. McCain nailed that one.

---

I agree that MC didn't shake up Obama too, but I don't think he is easily shaken during these types of debates (town hall). My wife agree's with you Nate on Obama's national security response. I missed that part as kids were throwing crayons at each other last night, but I kind of fear what Obama would not do if we were yet again attacked by terrorist groups in the US. Do you really think he has the backbone to fight for the US or just try and talk his way out of shit until his term is up. I also dont' want MC to be a war happy fuck like Bush is. I'm still in the air on who to go with

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I think he can, because if you check out his stance. It is not so much the war itself. But how it got diluted and mis-directed. MC, just seems to a chip off of Bush's old block. I think if somehow MC can shake the link to Bush he may fair better. I think he will be too quick to George Bush that button. But I do see where you are coming from on Obama trying to talk us out of stuff. But you have to admit, he is a very good speaker. Which is another reason I like him. He is very authoritative and articulate and a very good listener. Although I am for the most part still going Obama to this moment. I am still holding out for MC to say something that can move me.

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I don't think Mccain is a "loose canon" when it comes to sending our troops out like bush has been. He knows firsthand the brutalities of war. I don't think he would send out our troops unless it was absolutely necessary.

and frankly, i dont think obama has the balls to even send out troops


i can't imagine what would happen if he were president during another serious terrorist attack
 

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Posted by NiftyWhiteFifty (Member # 4320) on :
 

quote:

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This one, McCain took stance, although i'm still not convince with McCains "resolutions", his speeches are more of robobtic and it reflects back to Bush's speech with all the same old ideas with the old century. The whole speech with "creating jobs! Fixing our economy! Restore America" sounds like [BS flag]

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quote:

---

He mentions "Walk and talk softly BUT carry a big stick" which again, i disagree, how are you going to walk and talk softly when you are already focusing on Iran and North Korea? I can only imagine what will happen to America if he takes chair and takes on Iran. What will happen to Afghanistan? Iraq? Are we just going to dump Iraq just like how we did Afghanistan and move over to another country when we didnt even finish Afganistan?

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quote:

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Originally posted by NiftyWhiteFifty:

quote:

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This one, McCain took stance, although i'm still not convince with McCains "resolutions", his speeches are more of robobtic and it reflects back to Bush's speech with all the same old ideas with the old century. The whole speech with "creating jobs! Fixing our economy! Restore America" sounds like [BS flag]

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And you think obama's tax hike for the millions of small businesses around the country will help create jobs??? i dont think so. best way to create jobs is to cut taxes across the board, not raise them as obama is planning on doing.

quote:

---

He mentions "Walk and talk softly BUT carry a big stick" which again, i disagree, how are you going to walk and talk softly when you are already focusing on Iran and North Korea? I can only imagine what will happen to America if he takes chair and takes on Iran. What will happen to Afghanistan? Iraq? Are we just going to dump Iraq just like how we did Afghanistan and move over to another country when we didnt even finish Afganistan?

---

I believe it is Obama who wants to just "dump" iraq and move back into Afghanistan. I do agree we need to finish afghanistan but we also need to finish what we started in iraq. and the next president, who ever gets elected will HAVE to deal with Iran. it's inevitable. north korea and possibly russia will also have to be delt with.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sic5pointSLOW:
alstock i know you didnt write that... you didnt write mclame or talk about someones mom. dont try to fool us.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sic5pointSLOW:
alstock i know you didnt write that... you didnt write mclame or talk about someones mom. dont try to fool us.

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quote:

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Originally posted by AL STOCK:

quote:

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Originally posted by NiftyWhiteFifty:

quote:

---

This one, McCain took stance, although i'm still not convince with McCains "resolutions", his speeches are more of robobtic and it reflects back to Bush's speech with all the same old ideas with the old century. The whole speech with "creating jobs! Fixing our economy! Restore America" sounds like [BS flag]

---

And you think obama's tax hike for the millions of small businesses around the country will help create jobs??? i dont think so. best way to create jobs is to cut taxes across the board, not raise them as obama is planning on doing.

quote:

---

He mentions "Walk and talk softly BUT carry a big stick" which again, i disagree, how are you going to walk and talk softly when you are already focusing on Iran and North Korea? I can only imagine what will happen to America if he takes chair and takes on Iran. What will happen to Afghanistan? Iraq? Are we just going to dump Iraq just like how we did Afghanistan and move over to another country when we didnt even finish Afganistan?

---

I believe it is Obama who wants to just "dump" iraq and move back into Afghanistan. I do agree we need to finish afghanistan but we also need to finish what we started in iraq. and the next president, who ever gets elected will HAVE to deal with Iran. it's inevitable. north korea and possibly russia will also have to be delt with.

---

I agree on you on the taxes but he is planning to raise it on the 250K+ folks. I know it will affect even the poor ones but taxes to me was always a SCAM, we shouldnt be paying taxes in the first place (yes, it supports the prisons, health care, national defense, services for low income folks) yet billions of OUR money on the war. Should we pay taxes? YET no president did anything for us for Taxes (correct me if im wrong) Thats just what i think on the taxes side.

As for the War on Terrorism, i believe we should finish what we started, we started Afghanistan, we shouldve finished it before moving on.

Its started in Iraq now, but what can we do? Support our troops at best but families are in pain of hundreds of troops that have died and they are fighting for something thats not even relevant to what the war was about.

I doubt Obama will just dump Iraq and move back, he has to finish what we started, but if you look back, ever since 2003, we havent finished ANYTHING, (Iraqis living freely? Aghanis living in freedom? NOPE) just saddam gone and maybe killed Taliban leaders but they are still out there and even stronger in Afghanistan. If we dont finish Iraq and come home, we're gonna leave Iraq on standby just like Afghanistan and we will have 10 more Saddams and then it will be a definet danger to everyone in the world.


Overall, we can only go by their words, which in the back of my mind, i believe little may change of whoever takes seat, all these debates/speeches are more of sales speeches just to gain everyones trust so they can take chair.

Just my .02

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Sounds like you should be supporting alan keyes by the way you speak about taxes, he wants to abolish the income tax all together! I agree with a lot of what he says but he'd never get elected.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Alan_Keyes_Tax_Reform.htm

It was obama's plan to get out of iraq within the next 16 months. he even said it himself in the first debate! he said that all our troops must be out of there no matter what! I call that "dumping iraq and moving on" and it's not the right way to go about it.

I agree with you that Bush has not done a good job at allocating our troops in the right places and we should have continued to focus on afghanistan instead of moving into iraq. but whats done is done, the next president is going to have to clean up the mess. I think there is nobody more qualified militarily than mccain. what has obama ever done involving our military?

And finally, you know the saying "you can tell a lot about a person by the friends they keep" well from the looks of obamas friends, including two radical preachers, the former CEO of fannie mae (who is one of his ECONOMIC ADVISORS!) AND a unrepentant terrorist (William ayers), i don't think he should be anywhere near the white house.

[ October 08, 2008, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: NiftyWhiteFifty ]
 

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Posted by Dave50 (Member # 5238) on :
 
This is no fun... Im never gonna get my point across without name calling. Well anyhow you guys keep on campaigning. Ive have been put on restriction because I got the kitchen to hot for some of the cooks.
 

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Posted by AL STOCK (Member # 1852) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by NiftyWhiteFifty:

quote:

---

Originally posted by AL STOCK:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NiftyWhiteFifty:

quote:

---

This one, McCain took stance, although i'm still not convince with McCains "resolutions", his speeches are more of robobtic and it reflects back to Bush's speech with all the same old ideas with the old century. The whole speech with "creating jobs! Fixing our economy! Restore America" sounds like [BS flag]

---

And you think obama's tax hike for the millions of small businesses around the country will help create jobs??? i dont think so. best way to create jobs is to cut taxes across the board, not raise them as obama is planning on doing.

quote:

---

He mentions "Walk and talk softly BUT carry a big stick" which again, i disagree, how are you going to walk and talk softly when you are already focusing on Iran and North Korea? I can only imagine what will happen to America if he takes chair and takes on Iran. What will happen to Afghanistan? Iraq? Are we just going to dump Iraq just like how we did Afghanistan and move over to another country when we didnt even finish Afganistan?

---

I believe it is Obama who wants to just "dump" iraq and move back into Afghanistan. I do agree we need to finish afghanistan but we also need to finish what we started in iraq. and the next president, who ever gets elected will HAVE to deal with Iran. it's inevitable. north korea and possibly russia will also have to be delt with.

---

I agree on you on the taxes but he is planning to raise it on the 250K+ folks. I know it will affect even the poor ones but taxes to me was always a SCAM, we shouldnt be paying taxes in the first place (yes, it supports the prisons, health care, national defense, services for low income folks) yet billions of OUR money on the war. Should we pay taxes? YET no president did anything for us for Taxes (correct me if im wrong) Thats just what i think on the taxes side.

As for the War on Terrorism, i believe we should finish what we started, we started Afghanistan, we shouldve finished it before moving on.

Its started in Iraq now, but what can we do? Support our troops at best but families are in pain of hundreds of troops that have died and they are fighting for something thats not even relevant to what the war was about.

I doubt Obama will just dump Iraq and move back, he has to finish what we started, but if you look back, ever since 2003, we havent finished ANYTHING, (Iraqis living freely? Aghanis living in freedom? NOPE) just saddam gone and maybe killed Taliban leaders but they are still out there and even stronger in Afghanistan. If we dont finish Iraq and come home, we're gonna leave Iraq on standby just like Afghanistan and we will have 10 more Saddams and then it will be a definet danger to everyone in the world.


Overall, we can only go by their words, which in the back of my mind, i believe little may change of whoever takes seat, all these debates/speeches are more of sales speeches just to gain everyones trust so they can take chair.

Just my .02

---

Sounds like you should be supporting alan keyes by the way you speak about taxes, he wants to abolish the income tax all together! I agree with a lot of what he says but he'd never get elected.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Alan_Keyes_Tax_Reform.htm

It was obama's plan to get out of iraq within the next 16 months. he even said it himself in the first debate! he said that all our troops must be out of there no matter what! I call that "dumping iraq and moving on" and it's not the right way to go about it.

I agree with you that Bush has not done a good job at allocating our troops in the right places and we should have continued to focus on afghanistan instead of moving into iraq. but whats done is done, the next president is going to have to clean up the mess. I think there is nobody more qualified militarily than mccain. what has obama ever done involving our military?

And finally, you know the saying "you can tell a lot about a person by the friends they keep" well from the looks of obamas friends, including two radical preachers, the former CEO of fannie mae (who is one of his ECONOMIC ADVISORS!) AND a unrepentant terrorist (William ayers), i don't think he should be anywhere near the white house.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by AL STOCK:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NiftyWhiteFifty:

quote:

---

Originally posted by AL STOCK:

quote:

---

Originally posted by NiftyWhiteFifty:

quote:

---

This one, McCain took stance, although i'm still not convince with McCains "resolutions", his speeches are more of robobtic and it reflects back to Bush's speech with all the same old ideas with the old century. The whole speech with "creating jobs! Fixing our economy! Restore America" sounds like [BS flag]

---

And you think obama's tax hike for the millions of small businesses around the country will help create jobs??? i dont think so. best way to create jobs is to cut taxes across the board, not raise them as obama is planning on doing.

quote:

---

He mentions "Walk and talk softly BUT carry a big stick" which again, i disagree, how are you going to walk and talk softly when you are already focusing on Iran and North Korea? I can only imagine what will happen to America if he takes chair and takes on Iran. What will happen to Afghanistan? Iraq? Are we just going to dump Iraq just like how we did Afghanistan and move over to another country when we didnt even finish Afganistan?

---

I believe it is Obama who wants to just "dump" iraq and move back into Afghanistan. I do agree we need to finish afghanistan but we also need to finish what we started in iraq. and the next president, who ever gets elected will HAVE to deal with Iran. it's inevitable. north korea and possibly russia will also have to be delt with.

---

I agree on you on the taxes but he is planning to raise it on the 250K+ folks. I know it will affect even the poor ones but taxes to me was always a SCAM, we shouldnt be paying taxes in the first place (yes, it supports the prisons, health care, national defense, services for low income folks) yet billions of OUR money on the war. Should we pay taxes? YET no president did anything for us for Taxes (correct me if im wrong) Thats just what i think on the taxes side.

As for the War on Terrorism, i believe we should finish what we started, we started Afghanistan, we shouldve finished it before moving on.

Its started in Iraq now, but what can we do? Support our troops at best but families are in pain of hundreds of troops that have died and they are fighting for something thats not even relevant to what the war was about.

I doubt Obama will just dump Iraq and move back, he has to finish what we started, but if you look back, ever since 2003, we havent finished ANYTHING, (Iraqis living freely? Aghanis living in freedom? NOPE) just saddam gone and maybe killed Taliban leaders but they are still out there and even stronger in Afghanistan. If we dont finish Iraq and come home, we're gonna leave Iraq on standby just like Afghanistan and we will have 10 more Saddams and then it will be a definet danger to everyone in the world.


Overall, we can only go by their words, which in the back of my mind, i believe little may change of whoever takes seat, all these debates/speeches are more of sales speeches just to gain everyones trust so they can take chair.

Just my .02

---

Sounds like you should be supporting alan keyes by the way you speak about taxes, he wants to abolish the income tax all together! I agree with a lot of what he says but he'd never get elected.
http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Alan_Keyes_Tax_Reform.htm

It was obama's plan to get out of iraq within the next 16 months. he even said it himself in the first debate! he said that all our troops must be out of there no matter what! I call that "dumping iraq and moving on" and it's not the right way to go about it.

I agree with you that Bush has not done a good job at allocating our troops in the right places and we should have continued to focus on afghanistan instead of moving into iraq. but whats done is done, the next president is going to have to clean up the mess. I think there is nobody more qualified militarily than mccain. what has obama ever done involving our military?

And finally, you know the saying "you can tell a lot about a person by the friends they keep" well from the looks of obamas friends, including two radical preachers, the former CEO of fannie mae (who is one of his ECONOMIC ADVISORS!) AND a unrepentant terrorist (William ayers), i don't think he should be anywhere near the white house.

---

Understandable,

I just don't think we need another ex-war veteren or ex military (National Guard) mentality in the White House that will be focused more on War then anything.

I believe Obama may change a few things around, i say this because of our current presidency, hence Hurrican Katrina, slow responses of Bush or administration to aid the victims. Hence our current economy, it went downhill due to most attention on the War.

I said we bring in someone who has a little more of hands on with our current lifestyle, someone who lived on the streets to understand poverty and who actually worked with people all over and helped them with jobs and better lifestyle.

I can go on, but i just dont think we should be all about the war in the next 4 more years to come, i have a feeling with McCain, this will continue and we will be at more major wars while our country goes into Great Depression II.

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Ive never met a person that grew up in the hood and went to an ivy league school, not saying he didnt its just a little hard to belive. Kinda like most rappers say thay grew up in the projects and didnt.
On taxs, you should ask your self one thing, do you help the economy more than someone that makes 250k+?
On war, I feel the same way the Oboma voters feel, but when the time comes theres no time to talk. Whats Oboma going to do theres not going to be any talking with Iran at all!!
ALSTOCK, you say "I said we bring in someone who has a little more of hands on with our current lifestyle, someone who lived on the streets to understand poverty and who actually worked with people all over and helped them with jobs and better lifestyle." that sounds like palin to me lol.
 

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Posted by NiftyWhiteFifty (Member # 4320) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AL STOCK:
Understandable,

I just don't think we need another ex-war veteren or ex military (National Guard) mentality in the White House that will be focused more on War then anything.

I believe Obama may change a few things around, i say this because of our current presidency, hence Hurrican Katrina, slow responses of Bush or administration to aid the victims. Hence our current economy, it went downhill due to most attention on the War.

I said we bring in someone who has a little more of hands on with our current lifestyle, someone who lived on the streets to understand poverty and who actually worked with people all over and helped them with jobs and better lifestyle.

I can go on, but i just dont think we should be all about the war in the next 4 more years to come, i have a feeling with McCain, this will continue and we will be at more major wars while our country goes into Great Depression II.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:

On taxs, you should ask your self one thing, do you help the economy more than someone that makes 250k+?

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quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:

ALSTOCK, you say "I said we bring in someone who has a little more of hands on with our current lifestyle, someone who lived on the streets to understand poverty and who actually worked with people all over and helped them with jobs and better lifestyle." that sounds like palin to me lol.

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haha, thats what i was thinking... didn't barack grow up in hawaii? i didn't think there was a "hood" there

[ October 08, 2008, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: NiftyWhiteFifty ]
 

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Posted by NiftyWhiteFifty (Member # 4320) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave50:
This is no fun... Im never gonna get my point across without name calling. Well anyhow you guys keep on campaigning. Ive have been put on restriction because I got the kitchen to hot for some of the cooks.

---

It is possible to have a civil debate without name calling and posting ridiculous propaganda youtube videos


 

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Posted by 8stang8 (Member # 8082) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:
no matter whos the prez if iran builds a nuke and bombs israel we will bomb iran then russia, china, and iran will all bomb the us .......game over!!!!!!!!!!!WW3 end of the world

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DING DING DING....
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
A little something I found interesting.

quote:

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Only 20 Presidents Had More Experience Than Obama

Nothing has harmed Barack Obama's candidacy for president more than the perception that he is inexperienced. An August poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press found that "personal abilities and experience" was the biggest cause for concern by voters about Obama, much more than his stands on issues. Among those who support Obama, but only weakly, 43% were most troubled by Obama's experience. By contrast, only 8% of John McCain supporters were most troubled by his experience.

However, there are two problems with the attack on Obama's inexperience: it isn't true, and it doesn't matter.

Yet a campaign of misinformation has greatly exaggerated Obama's alleged inexperience. Fred Thompson's Sept. 2 speech to the Republican National Convention proclaimed that Obama is "most inexperienced nominee to ever run for President." The next night, Rudy Giuliani repeated the accusation about Obama: "He is the least experienced candidate for president of the United States in at least the last 100 years." Giuliani and Thompson seem to be conveniently forgetting that George W. Bush in 2000 had served only six years as governor, far fewer years of experience as an elected public official than Obama's 12 years of experience (eight as state senator, four as US senator). Nor did they seem to care that McCain's Vice Presidential pick, Sarah Palin, has only two years of experience as governor of Alaska.

Obama's experience in state and national politics also exceeds that of Ronald Reagan (eight years as governor), Jimmy Carter (four years in state senate, four years as governor), Dwight Eisenhower (no political experience), and Harry Truman (10 years as US senator, one year as vice president). In fact, Obama's total political experience exceeds Thompson's eight lackluster years as a senator or Giuliani's two terms as mayor of New York City, which they felt made them qualified to be president.

I did a quick study of presidential experience (see the results here) and discovered that out of 42 presidents, only 20 had more experience as an elected public official than Obama does now. Only 20 presidents had more experience than Obama as an elected official in Washington, D.C. In terms of his experience, Obama would be a typical president. Yet you won't find anyone in the media reporting on the fact that Obama has more foreign policy experience than four out of the last five presidents.

However, even if Obama were inexperienced, that would be no reason to vote against him. History shows us that an experienced politician usually makes for a lousy president. In fact, the most consistent variable to predict a failed presidency is experience.

The Wall Street Journal and the right-wing Federalist Society in 2005 surveyed an "ideologically balanced" group of 130 prominent professors to rank the best and worst presidents. Out of the top 10 presidents, ranked as great and near great, only three had more experience as an elected political official (or more experience in Congress) than Obama does now. Out of the five worst presidents ranked as failures, all of them had more experience than Obama.

Of course, not every inexperienced president is a good one. George W. Bush is definitive proof of that. However, experience may also be part of the explanation for Bush's failures. Bush was so inexperienced, particularly on foreign affairs, that he turned to Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to make key decisions. Cheney and Rumsfeld are among the most experienced figures ever to hold their positions, and like the failed presidents of great experience before them, they came up with some of the most disastrous policies in recent memory.

Obama, who has far more experience on foreign affairs than Bush thanks to four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and visits to 17 countries, is unlikely to be captive to the views of his running mate Joe Biden.

Why does experience harm presidential judgment? One reason is that experienced public officials tends to be set in their ways, and unwilling to challenge the status quo of which they are a part. Politicians with less experience are not tied to the political establishment and are more willing to implement change, which is an essential component of presidential greatness.

That certainly describes the 2008 election. Obama's depth and breadth of experience, both as an elected official and as a citizen committed to public service, far exceeds the norm for a president. It's time to stop talking about experience, and start talking about the issues that matter to the voters.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by N8:
A little something I found interesting.

quote:

---

Only 20 Presidents Had More Experience Than Obama

Nothing has harmed Barack Obama's candidacy for president more than the perception that he is inexperienced. An August poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press found that "personal abilities and experience" was the biggest cause for concern by voters about Obama, much more than his stands on issues. Among those who support Obama, but only weakly, 43% were most troubled by Obama's experience. By contrast, only 8% of John McCain supporters were most troubled by his experience.

However, there are two problems with the attack on Obama's inexperience: it isn't true, and it doesn't matter.

Yet a campaign of misinformation has greatly exaggerated Obama's alleged inexperience. Fred Thompson's Sept. 2 speech to the Republican National Convention proclaimed that Obama is "most inexperienced nominee to ever run for President." The next night, Rudy Giuliani repeated the accusation about Obama: "He is the least experienced candidate for president of the United States in at least the last 100 years." Giuliani and Thompson seem to be conveniently forgetting that George W. Bush in 2000 had served only six years as governor, far fewer years of experience as an elected public official than Obama's 12 years of experience (eight as state senator, four as US senator). Nor did they seem to care that McCain's Vice Presidential pick, Sarah Palin, has only two years of experience as governor of Alaska.

Obama's experience in state and national politics also exceeds that of Ronald Reagan (eight years as governor), Jimmy Carter (four years in state senate, four years as governor), Dwight Eisenhower (no political experience), and Harry Truman (10 years as US senator, one year as vice president). In fact, Obama's total political experience exceeds Thompson's eight lackluster years as a senator or Giuliani's two terms as mayor of New York City, which they felt made them qualified to be president.

I did a quick study of presidential experience (see the results here) and discovered that out of 42 presidents, only 20 had more experience as an elected public official than Obama does now. Only 20 presidents had more experience than Obama as an elected official in Washington, D.C. In terms of his experience, Obama would be a typical president. Yet you won't find anyone in the media reporting on the fact that Obama has more foreign policy experience than four out of the last five presidents.

However, even if Obama were inexperienced, that would be no reason to vote against him. History shows us that an experienced politician usually makes for a lousy president. In fact, the most consistent variable to predict a failed presidency is experience.

The Wall Street Journal and the right-wing Federalist Society in 2005 surveyed an "ideologically balanced" group of 130 prominent professors to rank the best and worst presidents. Out of the top 10 presidents, ranked as great and near great, only three had more experience as an elected political official (or more experience in Congress) than Obama does now. Out of the five worst presidents ranked as failures, all of them had more experience than Obama.

Of course, not every inexperienced president is a good one. George W. Bush is definitive proof of that. However, experience may also be part of the explanation for Bush's failures. Bush was so inexperienced, particularly on foreign affairs, that he turned to Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld to make key decisions. Cheney and Rumsfeld are among the most experienced figures ever to hold their positions, and like the failed presidents of great experience before them, they came up with some of the most disastrous policies in recent memory.

Obama, who has far more experience on foreign affairs than Bush thanks to four years on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and visits to 17 countries, is unlikely to be captive to the views of his running mate Joe Biden.

Why does experience harm presidential judgment? One reason is that experienced public officials tends to be set in their ways, and unwilling to challenge the status quo of which they are a part. Politicians with less experience are not tied to the political establishment and are more willing to implement change, which is an essential component of presidential greatness.

That certainly describes the 2008 election. Obama's depth and breadth of experience, both as an elected official and as a citizen committed to public service, far exceeds the norm for a president. It's time to stop talking about experience, and start talking about the issues that matter to the voters.

---

---

Obama's experience does matter, all 20 of those presidents didn't have to deal with what the US deals with today. Probably all those 20 were when the USA was against mingling with other countries the way we do today.
 

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Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
N8, if that article was any more one-sided, Obama's signature would have been at the bottom of it.
 

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Posted by NiftyWhiteFifty (Member # 4320) on :
 
That article sounds like it came straight off obama's website.
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnB:
N8, if that article was any more one-sided, Obama's signature would have been at the bottom of it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:
Point Blank, Scary and True:

1) Mccain is 72 years old with a history of the deadlist form of skin cancer.

2) Mccain is old enough to be at least everyones dad or grandpa on this board.

Question? Is or will Mccain be sane enough for 8 years? yes or no

Question? Will he live out his presidency? yes, no or I don't know.

Fact: Sara Palin is the Gov. of Alaska. Population 670,053. Gavin Newsom is the Mayor of San Francisco. Population 744,041.

Question? Lets pretend for a moment that Gavin Newsom was a republican hockey mom named Gavina Newsom with the only difference between her and a pitbull is lipstick, Gavina also has a kid named Track, a pregnant teenage daughter and a baby with down syndrome, would you want Gavina to be one heartbeat away from the presidency? Yes or No please.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:
Point Blank, Scary and True:

1) Mccain is 72 years old with a history of the deadlist form of skin cancer.

2) Mccain is old enough to be at least everyones dad or grandpa on this board.

Question? Is or will Mccain be sane enough for 8 years? yes or no

Question? Will he live out his presidency? yes, no or I don't know.

Fact: Sara Palin is the Gov. of Alaska. Population 670,053. Gavin Newsom is the Mayor of San Francisco. Population 744,041.

Question? Lets pretend for a moment that Gavin Newsom was a republican hockey mom named Gavina Newsom with the only difference between her and a pitbull is lipstick, Gavina also has a kid named Track, a pregnant teenage daughter and a baby with down syndrome, would you want Gavina to be one heartbeat away from the presidency? Yes or No please.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:
Point Blank, Scary and True:

1) Mccain is 72 years old with a history of the deadlist form of skin cancer.

2) Mccain is old enough to be at least everyones dad or grandpa on this board.

Question? Is or will Mccain be sane enough for 8 years? yes or no

Question? Will he live out his presidency? yes, no or I don't know.

Fact: Sara Palin is the Gov. of Alaska. Population 670,053. Gavin Newsom is the Mayor of San Francisco. Population 744,041.

Question? Lets pretend for a moment that Gavin Newsom was a republican hockey mom named Gavina Newsom with the only difference between her and a pitbull is lipstick, Gavina also has a kid named Track, a pregnant teenage daughter and a baby with down syndrome, would you want Gavina to be one heartbeat away from the presidency? Yes or No please.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 532Fastback:

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:
Point Blank, Scary and True:

1) Mccain is 72 years old with a history of the deadlist form of skin cancer.

2) Mccain is old enough to be at least everyones dad or grandpa on this board.

Question? Is or will Mccain be sane enough for 8 years? yes or no

Question? Will he live out his presidency? yes, no or I don't know.

Fact: Sara Palin is the Gov. of Alaska. Population 670,053. Gavin Newsom is the Mayor of San Francisco. Population 744,041.

Question? Lets pretend for a moment that Gavin Newsom was a republican hockey mom named Gavina Newsom with the only difference between her and a pitbull is lipstick, Gavina also has a kid named Track, a pregnant teenage daughter and a baby with down syndrome, would you want Gavina to be one heartbeat away from the presidency? Yes or No please.

---

what does Palin's kids have anything to do with her being vice president??

If your going to go that route with stupid stuff, do you really want a President who has a wife thats NEVER been proud to be American?

---

x2
 

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Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
I checked two facts in the article...

1. Obama's extensive Foreign relations experienece....

and..

2. Total number of years in public service (Obama's)...

#1...He served on the committee starting in January 2007...and announced his run for the prez Feb 10th...wow, 40ish days. That's alot. He did travel to 17 countries...in 4 different trips. Think of how many countries you'd travel to if you flew to the continent of Africa. Yup, 3-5 at least. How many oversight meetings did he hold to speak on their current work and topics? None. Not a single one. Too busy runnin' for Prez...
#2...took office Jan 1997. Now, I know I grew up in Florida and we had that lil issue in 2000 with counting ballots, but 1997 to date does not make 12 years.

Didn't want to be bias and just disprove Obama facts, so I checked up on Fred Thompson's eight "lackluster" years as a Senator. Yup, eight years as a Senator...and has been actively involved in Politics (ie Washington) since 1973...starting with the Watergate scandal. I guess he did something other than "just be a senator" like Biden....for 35+ years.

I got bored with the rest.
 

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Posted by kingroy (Member # 7736) on :
 
N8, Fr 5.0, 532 Fastback:

Fr 5.0-Can you answer the last question if you would? I'm just curious

N8-you're smarter than that, you understand the Gavin comparison

532Fastback-Palin's kids has nothing to do with the election. Re-read my post. This time a little slower.

Now, after all is understood. Answer the last question of my post if you would. If not, I understand, no hard feelings.
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 
Fact: Sara Palin is the Gov. of Alaska. Population 670,053. Gavin Newsom is the Mayor of San Francisco. Population 744,041.

Question? Lets pretend for a moment that Gavin Newsom was a republican hockey mom named Gavina Newsom with the only difference between her and a pitbull is lipstick, Gavina also has a kid named Track, a pregnant teenage daughter and a baby with down syndrome, would you want Gavina to be one heartbeat away from the presidency? Yes or No please.

ok so what you're saying is pallin with 100,000 more people would i still vote for her yes but why didnt you just say that 1. kids are irrelvant 2. pit bulls in office are a plus 3. i love hockey
 

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Posted by 532Fastback (Member # 1482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:
N8, Fr 5.0, 532 Fastback:

Fr 5.0-Can you answer the last question if you would? I'm just curious

N8-you're smarter than that, you understand the Gavin comparison

532Fastback-Palin's kids has nothing to do with the election. Re-read my post. This time a little slower.

Now, after all is understood. Answer the last question of my post if you would. If not, I understand, no hard feelings.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 532Fastback:

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:
N8, Fr 5.0, 532 Fastback:

Fr 5.0-Can you answer the last question if you would? I'm just curious

N8-you're smarter than that, you understand the Gavin comparison

532Fastback-Palin's kids has nothing to do with the election. Re-read my post. This time a little slower.

Now, after all is understood. Answer the last question of my post if you would. If not, I understand, no hard feelings.

---

If Palin's kids have nothing to do with it then rewrite your question concern Gavina with no mention of kids. If you can't then, answer my question what does Plain's kids have to do with the election? why do you care if she has a teenage daughter whos pregnant and a down syndrome toddler?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 532Fastback:
Theres no point in answering the question when it brings up stupid stuff. Now if you change the question to actual political facts instead of personal stuff i will answer the question.

Also if you picked Gavin because he supports gay marriage, that doesn't effect me. Gays should have the right to get married if they want to, it has no effect to me i am not gay and their marriage won't effect my life at all. Only religious people care about gay people getting married even though it has no effect on their religion or life at all either.

---

im gay! im in love with Gavin, thats why id vote for him.
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 
can we vote for gay rights on this forum?
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 
what do you think about gay rights kingroy
 

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Posted by kingroy (Member # 7736) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 532Fastback:
Theres no point in answering the question when it brings up stupid stuff. Now if you change the question to actual political facts instead of personal stuff i will answer the question.

Also if you picked Gavin because he supports gay marriage, that doesn't effect me. Gays should have the right to get married if they want to, it has no effect to me i am not gay and their marriage won't effect my life at all. Only religious people care about gay people getting married even though it has no effect on their religion or life at all either.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 532Fastback:
Theres no point in answering the question when it brings up stupid stuff. Now if you change the question to actual political facts instead of personal stuff i will answer the question.

Also if you picked Gavin because he supports gay marriage, that doesn't effect me. Gays should have the right to get married if they want to, it has no effect to me i am not gay and their marriage won't effect my life at all. Only religious people care about gay people getting married even though it has no effect on their religion or life at all either.

---

532Fastback-I would expect these kind of responses from Fr 5.0 or Lambodork. Listen, It's not about her kids, just re-read the question and skip over the part about her kids if you have to. It's the same question. Next, don't get stuck on Gavin Newsom. It's not about Gavin Newsom or Gay marriage. The question is based on experience and experience only. Minus the policies, Gavin Newsom is a mayor of San Francisco, a major U.S. city with a population of 750,000+. Sara Palin is the Gov. of a state with a population less than the city of San Francisco.

Bottom Line Question: With the facts stated as is, do think Sara Palin, Gov. of Alaska, Republican V.P. candidate has enough experience to lead this country if some unforeseen event were to happen to Mccain?

---

Sooo basically your telling us to put all his/her family and political views aside, everything he/she stands for? how then are we to decide if we would vote for someone if we no nothing about him/her aside from his/her time spent in office?

It's about what that person accomplished WHILE in office that I care about. not how long.

So your question is invalid. end of story.

Barack obama has accomplished NOTHING in his time in state senate and voted Present for the majority of his time in the US senate. Biden has spent 35 years in politics but what can he really put behind his name???

[ October 09, 2008, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: NiftyWhiteFifty ]
 

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Posted by 1994steeda (Member # 6127) on :
 
If I may add a few comments without offending anyone…


I think we should all vote republican again, so far we have only got 7 trillion dollars in debt that will be passed on to our children and children’s children, and have gone to fight a war on terrorism in a country full of oil while the gas price have quadrupled in the past years, and needless to say no terrorist connection to 911. Has anyone really seen what happened on 911? look carefully at how the twin towers go down, it was planned by explosives. The owner of the twin towers only made 600 billion from insurance the day after 911 for signing up for insurance on airplane terrorist attacks a week before the attacks. Vote for McCain and we will get 4 or 8 more years of the same BS! With him our bad economy will slow hit us were it hurt us the most our FORDS… Obama is black and that’s why people talk about him, because the reality is the USA is still full of racist people... oh and McCain is way too old and as for Palin is an air head and is good at dodging tricky question

1994steeda
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1994steeda:
If I may add a few comments without offending anyone…


I think we should all vote republican again, so far we have only got 7 trillion dollars in debt that will be passed on to our children and children’s children, and have gone to fight a war on terrorism in a country full of oil while the gas price have quadrupled in the past years, and needless to say no terrorist connection to 911. Has anyone really seen what happened on 911? look carefully at how the twin towers go down, it was planned by explosives. The owner of the twin towers only made 600 billion from insurance the day after 911 for signing up for insurance on airplane terrorist attacks a week before the attacks. Vote for McCain and we will get 4 or 8 more years of the same BS! With him our bad economy will slow hit us were it hurt us the most our FORDS… Obama is black and that’s why people talk about him, because the reality is the USA is still full of racist people... oh and McCain is way too old and as for Palin is an air head and is good at dodging tricky question

1994steeda

---

not trying to offend you but do you live in a cave?
just a little bit of the ice berg

On taxs, you should ask your self one thing, do you help the economy more than someone that makes 250k+?

On war, I feel the same way the Oboma voters feel, but when the time comes theres no time to talk. Whats Oboma going to do theres not going to be any talking with Iran at all!!

Oboma is full of feel good tactics to get your vote the race card is just one of them hes got a whole pocket full!
 

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Posted by 1994steeda (Member # 6127) on :
 
Mr. fr5.0
I don’t live in a cave, but anyways you are right. I don’t help out the economy If I made $250k I would be in the top10 fastest Mustangs on this site. but I think none of them would be a "good" president but now we have to choose between those "two" and I think Obama is much better then McCain. McCain doesn’t care about the economy and Obama wouldn’t know how to fix it, but he will at least try. Palin might help but McCain will only over ride her ideas, she is only in there to get Hillary’s woman voters period! But come on McCain?

1994steeda
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1994steeda:
Mr. fr5.0
I don’t live in a cave, but anyways you are right. I don’t help out the economy If I made $250k I would be in the top10 fastest Mustangs on this site. but I think none of them would be a "good" president but now we have to choose between those "two" and I think Obama is much better then McCain. McCain doesn’t care about the economy and Obama wouldn’t know how to fix it, but he will at least try. Palin might help but McCain will only over ride her ideas, she is only in there to get Hillary’s woman voters period! But come on McCain?

1994steeda

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by kingroy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 532Fastback:
Theres no point in answering the question when it brings up stupid stuff. Now if you change the question to actual political facts instead of personal stuff i will answer the question.

Also if you picked Gavin because he supports gay marriage, that doesn't effect me. Gays should have the right to get married if they want to, it has no effect to me i am not gay and their marriage won't effect my life at all. Only religious people care about gay people getting married even though it has no effect on their religion or life at all either.

---

532Fastback-I would expect these kind of responses from Fr 5.0 or Lambodork. Listen, It's not about her kids, just re-read the question and skip over the part about her kids if you have to. It's the same question. Next, don't get stuck on Gavin Newsom. It's not about Gavin Newsom or Gay marriage. The question is based on experience and experience only. Minus the policies, Gavin Newsom is a mayor of San Francisco, a major U.S. city with a population of 750,000+. Sara Palin is the Gov. of a state with a population less than the city of San Francisco.

Bottom Line Question: With the facts stated as is, do think Sara Palin, Gov. of Alaska, Republican V.P. candidate has enough experience to lead this country if some unforeseen event were to happen to Mccain?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1994steeda:
Mr. fr5.0
I don’t live in a cave, but anyways you are right. I don’t help out the economy If I made $250k I would be in the top10 fastest Mustangs on this site. but I think none of them would be a "good" president but now we have to choose between those "two" and I think Obama is much better then McCain. McCain doesn’t care about the economy and Obama wouldn’t know how to fix it, but he will at least try. Palin might help but McCain will only over ride her ideas, she is only in there to get Hillary’s woman voters period! But come on McCain?

1994steeda

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnB:
I checked two facts in the article...

1. Obama's extensive Foreign relations experienece....

and..

2. Total number of years in public service (Obama's)...

#1...He served on the committee starting in January 2007...and announced his run for the prez Feb 10th...wow, 40ish days. That's alot. He did travel to 17 countries...in 4 different trips. Think of how many countries you'd travel to if you flew to the continent of Africa. Yup, 3-5 at least. How many oversight meetings did he hold to speak on their current work and topics? None. Not a single one. Too busy runnin' for Prez...
#2...took office Jan 1997. Now, I know I grew up in Florida and we had that lil issue in 2000 with counting ballots, but 1997 to date does not make 12 years.

Didn't want to be bias and just disprove Obama facts, so I checked up on Fred Thompson's eight "lackluster" years as a Senator. Yup, eight years as a Senator...and has been actively involved in Politics (ie Washington) since 1973...starting with the Watergate scandal. I guess he did something other than "just be a senator" like Biden....for 35+ years.

I got bored with the rest.

---

John
I did read up on some of the facts as well. And I came up with 11 years and some change in the Senate seat at some capacity. Maybe they rounded up... Now his foreign policy experience is up for debate. But I do agree with most that growing up in Indonesia and having family abroad (Nigeria among other places) and his travels to 17 countries gives him "a better inner compass on foreign policy than most Americans." I do agree you cannot measure that. But what foreign policy experience did bush have? I think it is safe to assume that you guys voted for him as well. But I digress. John you still did not disprove the meat of the article. His experience is not as subpar as most would think. And in comparison to the likes of Ronald Reagan and a few other mentionable names it is in some ways superior. I Like this quote and sentiment from Obama; "The day I'm inaugurated, not only will the country look at itself differently, but the world will look at America differently," and I think it is very true. Anyway, like I said not trying to change anyone's view. I just thought it was interesting and a good read. And I am glad it provoked someone to look into it.

Roy
I think I see where you are going. But I still dont have a answer because I am not sure how to answer it. I am not well versed in the differences of Local/City government and state government. I would say Palin would trump Gavin if I had to answer right now.

For the folks that say Obama has accomplished nothing. I would say read up a bit. Don't necessarily just listen to propaganda. Now if you said he didn't do anything that "you feel" is of value. Then that's a different story. Because it is opinion.

FR
I am not sure why everything you say has to have a air of disrespect to it. Just chat civilly and I think you will drive your message home better. Don't bash someone views because they are opposite yours. Oh and I can think of at least one VP with more experience than Palin. Biden

I am all for the best person for the job. If McCain pops off with something that makes me say hmmmm. He may get my vote. But I am just feeling it is more of the same from him. And after watching the John Stewart show last night. I hadn't realized how much smoke McCain blew. And how out of his zone he is.
 

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Posted by 532Fastback (Member # 1482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by N8:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnB:
I checked two facts in the article...

1. Obama's extensive Foreign relations experienece....

and..

2. Total number of years in public service (Obama's)...

#1...He served on the committee starting in January 2007...and announced his run for the prez Feb 10th...wow, 40ish days. That's alot. He did travel to 17 countries...in 4 different trips. Think of how many countries you'd travel to if you flew to the continent of Africa. Yup, 3-5 at least. How many oversight meetings did he hold to speak on their current work and topics? None. Not a single one. Too busy runnin' for Prez...
#2...took office Jan 1997. Now, I know I grew up in Florida and we had that lil issue in 2000 with counting ballots, but 1997 to date does not make 12 years.

Didn't want to be bias and just disprove Obama facts, so I checked up on Fred Thompson's eight "lackluster" years as a Senator. Yup, eight years as a Senator...and has been actively involved in Politics (ie Washington) since 1973...starting with the Watergate scandal. I guess he did something other than "just be a senator" like Biden....for 35+ years.

I got bored with the rest.

---

John
I did read up on some of the facts as well. And I came up with 11 years and some change in the Senate seat at some capacity. Maybe they rounded up... Now his foreign policy experience is up for debate. But I do agree with most that growing up in Indonesia and having family abroad (Nigeria among other places) and his travels to 17 countries gives him "a better inner compass on foreign policy than most Americans." I do agree you cannot measure that. But what foreign policy experience did bush have? I think it is safe to assume that you guys voted for him as well. But I digress. John you still did not disprove the meat of the article. His experience is not as subpar as most would think. And in comparison to the likes of Ronald Reagan and a few other mentionable names it is in some ways superior. I Like this quote and sentiment from Obama; "The day I'm inaugurated, not only will the country look at itself differently, but the world will look at America differently," and I think it is very true. Anyway, like I said not trying to change anyone's view. I just thought it was interesting and a good read. And I am glad it provoked someone to look into it.

Roy
I think I see where you are going. But I still dont have a answer because I am not sure how to answer it. I am not well versed in the differences of Local/City government and state government. I would say Palin would trump Gavin if I had to answer right now.

For the folks that say Obama has accomplished nothing. I would say read up a bit. Don't necessarily just listen to propaganda. Now if you said he didn't do anything that "you feel" is of value. Then that's a different story. Because it is opinion.

FR
I am not sure why everything you say has to have a air of disrespect to it. Just chat civilly and I think you will drive your message home better. Don't bash someone views because they are opposite yours. Oh and I can think of at least one VP with more experience than Palin. Biden

I am all for the best person for the job. If McCain pops off with something that makes me say hmmmm. He may get my vote. But I am just feeling it is more of the same from him. And after watching the John Stewart show last night. I hadn't realized how much smoke McCain blew. And how out of his zone he is.

---

quote:

---

Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Obama, Sr., a black Kenyan of Nyang’oma Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann Dunham, a White American from Wichita, Kansas.[2] His parents met while attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was a foreign student.[3] They separated when he was two years old and later divorced.[4] Obama's father returned to Kenya and saw his son only once more before dying in an automobile accident in 1982.[5] After her divorce, Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, and the family moved to Soetoro's home country of Indonesia in 1967, where Obama attended local schools in Jakarta until he was ten years old. He then returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents while attending Punahou School from the fifth grade in 1971 until his graduation from high school in 1979.[6] Obama's mother returned to Hawaii in 1972 for several years and then back to Indonesia for her fieldwork. She died of ovarian cancer in 1995.[7] As an adult Obama admitted that during high school he used marijuana, cocaine, and alcohol, which he described at the 2008 Civil Forum on the Presidency as his greatest moral failure.[8][9]

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quote:

---

Originally posted by N8:
Grew up was maybe a bad term to use...but here is a bit.

quote:

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Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961, in Honolulu, Hawaii, to Barack Obama, Sr., a black Kenyan of Nyang’oma Kogelo, Siaya District, Kenya, and Ann Dunham, a White American from Wichita, Kansas.[2] His parents met while attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa, where his father was a foreign student.[3] They separated when he was two years old and later divorced.[4] Obama's father returned to Kenya and saw his son only once more before dying in an automobile accident in 1982.[5] After her divorce, Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, and the family moved to Soetoro's home country of Indonesia in 1967, where Obama attended local schools in Jakarta until he was ten years old. He then returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents while attending Punahou School from the fifth grade in 1971 until his graduation from high school in 1979.[6] Obama's mother returned to Hawaii in 1972 for several years and then back to Indonesia for her fieldwork. She died of ovarian cancer in 1995.[7] As an adult Obama admitted that during high school he used marijuana, cocaine, and alcohol, which he described at the 2008 Civil Forum on the Presidency as his greatest moral failure.[8][9]

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So he only lived there for 4 years, I'd say he grew up in Hawaii.
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
I agree. I did say "grew up" was a bad term to use. But what's funny, is that stint in Indonesia is what spawned all the "he followed the Islamic religion" criticism. SO if it is something negative its "Oh hey he grew up in Indonesia a predominantly Islamic" country. But when it is less dramatic or can discredit something "he grew up in Hawaii". Not saying you did that. But that is what happened in the media basically.

I noticed you changed your initial comment.

Half the people that are feverishly bashing Obama, didn't even know he was a US citizen. Which I found funny.

[ October 09, 2008, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: N8 ]
 

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Posted by 532Fastback (Member # 1482) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
I agree. I did say "grew up" was a bad term to use. But what's funny, is that stint in Indonesia is what spawned all the "he followed the Islamic religion" criticism. SO if it is something negative its "Oh hey he grew up in Indonesia a predominantly Islamic" country. But when it is less dramatic or can discredit something "he grew up in Hawaii". Not saying you did that. But that is what happened in the media basically.

I noticed you changed your initial comment.

Half the people that are feverishly bashing Obama, didn't even know he was a US citizen. Which I found funny.

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quote:

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Originally posted by N8:

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnB:
I checked two facts in the article...

1. Obama's extensive Foreign relations experienece....

and..

2. Total number of years in public service (Obama's)...

#1...He served on the committee starting in January 2007...and announced his run for the prez Feb 10th...wow, 40ish days. That's alot. He did travel to 17 countries...in 4 different trips. Think of how many countries you'd travel to if you flew to the continent of Africa. Yup, 3-5 at least. How many oversight meetings did he hold to speak on their current work and topics? None. Not a single one. Too busy runnin' for Prez...
#2...took office Jan 1997. Now, I know I grew up in Florida and we had that lil issue in 2000 with counting ballots, but 1997 to date does not make 12 years.

Didn't want to be bias and just disprove Obama facts, so I checked up on Fred Thompson's eight "lackluster" years as a Senator. Yup, eight years as a Senator...and has been actively involved in Politics (ie Washington) since 1973...starting with the Watergate scandal. I guess he did something other than "just be a senator" like Biden....for 35+ years.

I got bored with the rest.

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John
I did read up on some of the facts as well. And I came up with 11 years and some change in the Senate seat at some capacity. Maybe they rounded up... Now his foreign policy experience is up for debate. But I do agree with most that growing up in Indonesia and having family abroad (Nigeria among other places) and his travels to 17 countries gives him "a better inner compass on foreign policy than most Americans." I do agree you cannot measure that. But what foreign policy experience did bush have? I think it is safe to assume that you guys voted for him as well. But I digress. John you still did not disprove the meat of the article. His experience is not as subpar as most would think. And in comparison to the likes of Ronald Reagan and a few other mentionable names it is in some ways superior. I Like this quote and sentiment from Obama; "The day I'm inaugurated, not only will the country look at itself differently, but the world will look at America differently," and I think it is very true. Anyway, like I said not trying to change anyone's view. I just thought it was interesting and a good read. And I am glad it provoked someone to look into it.

Roy
I think I see where you are going. But I still dont have a answer because I am not sure how to answer it. I am not well versed in the differences of Local/City government and state government. I would say Palin would trump Gavin if I had to answer right now.

For the folks that say Obama has accomplished nothing. I would say read up a bit. Don't necessarily just listen to propaganda. Now if you said he didn't do anything that "you feel" is of value. Then that's a different story. Because it is opinion.

FR
I am not sure why everything you say has to have a air of disrespect to it. Just chat civilly and I think you will drive your message home better. Don't bash someone views because they are opposite yours. Oh and I can think of at least one VP with more experience than Palin. Biden

I am all for the best person for the job. If McCain pops off with something that makes me say hmmmm. He may get my vote. But I am just feeling it is more of the same from him. And after watching the John Stewart show last night. I hadn't realized how much smoke McCain blew. And how out of his zone he is.

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i didnt try to bash sorry bout that. I think you can feal me when, some one says something that is so far off the charts you wonder where they have been for the last year. I just get a lil ansy sorry guys check my post to epic in "How do I become a mod?" its not personal!
 

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Posted by AL STOCK (Member # 1852) on :
 
FYI-

http://www.kron4.com/Global/category.asp?C=139234

Kron4's Presidential Poll ^
 

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Posted by 1994steeda (Member # 6127) on :
 
"some one says something that is so far off the charts you wonder where they have been for the last year"

I’m guessing that someone was I? 911 has not gone away my good friend. Like I said that is what I think, you may not agree with it but you did bash me. I didn’t bash you, I don’t know you but I do respect your opinion. That’s what politics are about, getting your word out. I’m in school trying to make ends meet, paying for books and school because of some stupid law Mr. Terminator passed. I can’t qualify for anything to help pay my school. (Because I make to much $$ as a part-time preschool teacher LOL) McCain didn’t talk about schooling at all, its not part of his “to do list”, while Palin did, but her job is only to get voters for McCain. Regardless of who we like or dislike, California will not vote republican that’s a Fact. Its up to the other states.

1994steeda
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 1994steeda:
"some one says something that is so far off the charts you wonder where they have been for the last year"

I’m guessing that someone was I? 911 has not gone away my good friend. Like I said that is what I think, you may not agree with it but you did bash me. I didn’t bash you, I don’t know you but I do respect your opinion. That’s what politics are about, getting your word out. I’m in school trying to make ends meet, paying for books and school because of some stupid law Mr. Terminator passed. I can’t qualify for anything to help pay my school. (Because I make to much $$ as a part-time preschool teacher LOL) McCain didn’t talk about schooling at all, its not part of his “to do list”, while Palin did, but her job is only to get voters for McCain. Regardless of who we like or dislike, California will not vote republican that’s a Fact. Its up to the other states.

1994steeda

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quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:

quote:

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Originally posted by 1994steeda:
"some one says something that is so far off the charts you wonder where they have been for the last year"

I’m guessing that someone was I? 911 has not gone away my good friend. Like I said that is what I think, you may not agree with it but you did bash me. I didn’t bash you, I don’t know you but I do respect your opinion. That’s what politics are about, getting your word out. I’m in school trying to make ends meet, paying for books and school because of some stupid law Mr. Terminator passed. I can’t qualify for anything to help pay my school. (Because I make to much $$ as a part-time preschool teacher LOL) McCain didn’t talk about schooling at all, its not part of his “to do list”, while Palin did, but her job is only to get voters for McCain. Regardless of who we like or dislike, California will not vote republican that’s a Fact. Its up to the other states.

1994steeda

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1994steeda, like i said im sorry if you feel i bashed you, i dont feel i did but i belive there is no room in politics for weaknes. I didnt say you were weak just saying that most people get butt hurt in these kind of arguments, but like i said in another thread "after the politics where all still buddys". Political arguments shouldnt lead to violence its just an argument of personal prefrence, sure I get a little irritated because I dont think others get it but thats a two sided street. Basically dont take it to heart its not personal.

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aaaaaawwwwwww......that was sweet
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 
one time dont expect to see it again. no matter if it was bullshit or not he put a sparkle in my eye with that "i respect your opinion" shit. lol
 

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Posted by AL STOCK (Member # 1852) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:

quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:

quote:

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Originally posted by 1994steeda:
"some one says something that is so far off the charts you wonder where they have been for the last year"

I’m guessing that someone was I? 911 has not gone away my good friend. Like I said that is what I think, you may not agree with it but you did bash me. I didn’t bash you, I don’t know you but I do respect your opinion. That’s what politics are about, getting your word out. I’m in school trying to make ends meet, paying for books and school because of some stupid law Mr. Terminator passed. I can’t qualify for anything to help pay my school. (Because I make to much $$ as a part-time preschool teacher LOL) McCain didn’t talk about schooling at all, its not part of his “to do list”, while Palin did, but her job is only to get voters for McCain. Regardless of who we like or dislike, California will not vote republican that’s a Fact. Its up to the other states.

1994steeda

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1994steeda, like i said im sorry if you feel i bashed you, i dont feel i did but i belive there is no room in politics for weaknes. I didnt say you were weak just saying that most people get butt hurt in these kind of arguments, but like i said in another thread "after the politics where all still buddys". Political arguments shouldnt lead to violence its just an argument of personal prefrence, sure I get a little irritated because I dont think others get it but thats a two sided street. Basically dont take it to heart its not personal.

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aaaaaawwwwwww......that was sweet

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quote:

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Originally posted by AL STOCK:

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:

quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:

quote:

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Originally posted by 1994steeda:
"some one says something that is so far off the charts you wonder where they have been for the last year"

I’m guessing that someone was I? 911 has not gone away my good friend. Like I said that is what I think, you may not agree with it but you did bash me. I didn’t bash you, I don’t know you but I do respect your opinion. That’s what politics are about, getting your word out. I’m in school trying to make ends meet, paying for books and school because of some stupid law Mr. Terminator passed. I can’t qualify for anything to help pay my school. (Because I make to much $$ as a part-time preschool teacher LOL) McCain didn’t talk about schooling at all, its not part of his “to do list”, while Palin did, but her job is only to get voters for McCain. Regardless of who we like or dislike, California will not vote republican that’s a Fact. Its up to the other states.

1994steeda

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1994steeda, like i said im sorry if you feel i bashed you, i dont feel i did but i belive there is no room in politics for weaknes. I didnt say you were weak just saying that most people get butt hurt in these kind of arguments, but like i said in another thread "after the politics where all still buddys". Political arguments shouldnt lead to violence its just an argument of personal prefrence, sure I get a little irritated because I dont think others get it but thats a two sided street. Basically dont take it to heart its not personal.

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aaaaaawwwwwww......that was sweet

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oops i was replying to a wrong thread

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quote:

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Originally posted by BLK35th:
man, f this im voting for Hitler!!!

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[ October 09, 2008, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: fr5.0 ]
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by SPIDER_STANG:
How can you judge a person on experience when neither one has never been president or VP before?? Its like saying an old as teacher that has been in teaching for 40 yrs is a better teacher than a new young teacher with new ideas because they have experience!! get it thru your head?? McCain is to old to lead us!! Obama is new with fresh ideas that can help change the state were in now!! Fucked up!! I like McCain because he has more experience than Obama!! Fuck that the only experience he has is the same old crew that has been running this country for years!! & look where we are now!!! Broke!!

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ummmmmmmmm ya fresh ideas to criple our economy. listen you might think Obomya is the right choice, because you look like your like 40(no disin) and dont care about the economy in the next 10 years but young america should. I still have the want to buy houses, cars, boats, motorcycles, etc, etc, and when Obomya crashs our economy and doest come back for 15 years, where the only ones(young america) hurt from it. So hey thanks for lookin out for the little guy.
let me guess.....like you care huh?
 

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Posted by SPIDER_STANG (Member # 8658) on :
 
If I care!!!(What the fuck) I'am young America!!! & under 30 for your info!! But like I said shit has to change!!! we are getting worse & worse year after year regardless who is in their so how about try something diffrent to see if we can change for the better!! The people in office have been the same year after year so lets try something new!! What's the risk?? That we continue to be fucked up?? I bet your scared because you think its over for the rich & greedy fucks who put us here in the first place huh???
yeah I see the fear in your eyes!!! Boo!!! LoL I bet you wish you lived when Hitler was around huh!! I got ya

[ October 10, 2008, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: SPIDER_STANG ]
 

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Posted by Dave50 (Member # 5238) on :
 
Fact is, is Obama is a racists. What more needs to be discussed? Hes a racist. His church gave this man the lifetime achievement award... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWxNeGOXSoA
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by SPIDER_STANG:
If I care!!!(What the fuck) I'am young America!!! & under 30 for your info!! But like I said shit has to change!!! we are getting worse & worse year after year regardless who is in their so how about try something diffrent to see if we can change for the better!! The people in office have been the same year after year so lets try something new!! What's the risk?? That we continue to be fucked up?? I bet your scared because you think its over for the rich & greedy fucks who put us here in the first place huh???
yeah I see the fear in your eyes!!! Boo!!! LoL I bet you wish you lived when Hitler was around huh!! I got ya

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quote:

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Originally posted by fr5.0:

quote:

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Originally posted by BLK35th:
man, f this im voting for Hitler!!!

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this saddam hussein pic isnt hitler for all the tards

[ October 10, 2008, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: fr5.0 ]
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 
........
 

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Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
well so much for civil conversation.

Racist or not. Obama is leading in Ohio and no republican has ever made office that lost Ohio. So, so far I am very pleased.

Not sure why some people cannot talk with intelligence and tact. These topics are not why CaFords at times resembles a kindergarten class. It is the folks that join in the topics. It was all good when Jdub, john and a few others exchanged views and ideas. Then it just went south from there.
 

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Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
Obama is leading in Ohio and no republican has ever made office that lost Ohio. So, so far I am very pleased.

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Is he leading because of his abilities...or the abilities of ACORN? Any connection between his lead and the Ohio Supreme Court's recent decision to allow people to register to vote AND cast a absentee ballot the same day?? It screams fraud, no doubt about it. Obama's connections to ACORN are documented. Madeline Talbot was/is one of his biggest mentors. I love my Google search bar!

We'll keep it on track N8...
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
well so much for civil conversation.

Racist or not. Obama is leading in Ohio and no republican has ever made office that lost Ohio. So, so far I am very pleased.

Not sure why some people cannot talk with intelligence and tact. These topics are not why CaFords at times resembles a kindergarten class. It is the folks that join in the topics. It was all good when Jdub, john and a few others exchanged views and ideas. Then it just went south from there.

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sorry N8 but any way you say it, its still a black guy against a white guy. maybe this nations not ready for that kind of battle, because theres always going to be a tard around that wants to bring up that issue white or black.

anyhoo whens the next debate this weekend rite?
 

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Posted by fr5.0 (Member # 8652) on :
 
so i was thinking lets try something new a change of a sort, when we speak of Obomya lets not say change or different.
reason is because i have made some valid points above
and, seems that no one can enlighten me on what the difference between the two is.
so for the sake of arguing for a dumb cause lets not use that any more!!!!!
 

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Posted by Dave50 (Member # 5238) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
well so much for civil conversation.

Racist or not. Obama is leading in Ohio and no republican has ever made office that lost Ohio. So, so far I am very pleased.

Not sure why some people cannot talk with intelligence and tact. These topics are not why CaFords at times resembles a kindergarten class. It is the folks that join in the topics. It was all good when Jdub, john and a few others exchanged views and ideas. Then it just went south from there.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JohnB:

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
Obama is leading in Ohio and no republican has ever made office that lost Ohio. So, so far I am very pleased.

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Is he leading because of his abilities...or the abilities of ACORN? Any connection between his lead and the Ohio Supreme Court's recent decision to allow people to register to vote AND cast a absentee ballot the same day?? It screams fraud, no doubt about it. Obama's connections to ACORN are documented. Madeline Talbot was/is one of his biggest mentors. I love my Google search bar!

We'll keep it on track N8...

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Something similar happened I recalled in Florida for who was it? Bush? Also John you do realize that is the opinion section of the NYpost? Not saying there is not truth there. But I also read a story about BatBoy and Zsa Zsa Gabor had a thing going in that section

But yea we can keep it on track.

Dave50 how you know I was talking to you? I am just not sure how race keeps coming on the scene. Just vote based on their platforms. If you think he is racist dont vote for him. But if you have nothing of value to add, I would assume it better to keep it to yourself for sake of a sane discussion. And race discussions never go well here because frankly you cannot handle it without calling folks outside their name or throwing racial slurs around.

[ October 10, 2008, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: N8 ]
 

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Posted by Dave50 (Member # 5238) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnB:

quote:

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Originally posted by N8:
Obama is leading in Ohio and no republican has ever made office that lost Ohio. So, so far I am very pleased.

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Is he leading because of his abilities...or the abilities of ACORN? Any connection between his lead and the Ohio Supreme Court's recent decision to allow people to register to vote AND cast a absentee ballot the same day?? It screams fraud, no doubt about it. Obama's connections to ACORN are documented. Madeline Talbot was/is one of his biggest mentors. I love my Google search bar!

We'll keep it on track N8...

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Something similar happened I recalled in Florida for who was it? Bush? Also John you do realize that is the opinion section of the NYpost? Not saying there is not truth there. But I also read a story about BatBoy and Zsa Zsa Gabor had a thing going in that section

But yea we can keep it on track.

Dave50 how you know I was talking to you? I am just not sure how race keeps coming on the scene. Just vote based on their platforms. If you think he is racist dont vote for him. But if you have nothing of value to add, I would assume it better to keep it to yourself for sake of a sane discussion. And race discussions never go well here because frankly you cannot handle it without calling folks outside their name or throwing racial slurs around.

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N8 that was pretty tricky of you to say I brang race into it when infact, I said he was a racist!
 

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Posted by 1HaTCheD5LiTEr (Member # 8269) on :
 
damn...palin is a f**king idiot trying to abuse her governmental power to fire her ex-brother in-law just because of a personal dispute ...mccain is even stupider for still picking her even after he knew about this
and then mccain talks down to his party admitting that obama is a good man and that we "shouldn't" be scared if he were president...what a day for the republican party

Obama FTW
 

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