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Topic: Presidential race...

75 chevy
¯
Member # 6717

posted

Who likes Obama? There was a thread B4 about Obama....

Anyways a republican V.P. for Obama??? I guess its a good idea. Read this article....
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/06/17/hagel_veep/index.html?source=yahoo

And Obama's veep is ... a Republican?

Some are buzzing about Chuck Hagel, a strong critic of Bush and the war, for the Democratic ticket. A bold idea or political fantasy?

Sen. Chuck Hagel, R- Neb., speaks during Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearings on the war in Iraq in Washington on Sept. 11, 2007.

June 17, 2008 | WASHINGTON -- Something strange happened to Chuck Hagel over the last couple of years: He started to turn into John McCain.

Not the John McCain who's running for president this year, though. The John McCain who ran in 2000 and who rampaged in the Senate for a few years after that -- leading the charge for campaign finance reform, flirting publicly with Democratic leaders, opposing George W. Bush apparently for the sheer fun of it. The John McCain, in other words, who was for a time the favorite Republican of many Democrats.

Now Hagel seems to have taken over that title -- and he's being discussed as a contender for Barack Obama's vice-presidential pick. While Hagel is a long shot for the job, what seems to be stirring some interest in him is less a question of electoral math than of political metaphysics. Running with a Republican would reinforce the message that Obama is serious about changing the way things are done in Washington, and that he really does aim to move the country past the partisan battles of the last couple of decades. At the same time, Hagel's very public split with Bush and the rest of the GOP on the war in Iraq bolsters Obama's case about foreign policy -- that the administration has America on the wrong track vis-à-vis the rest of the world.

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But Hagel may be a more attractive candidate in theory than in reality. The buzz about him seems to overlook the fact that he is, despite how much he may like to criticize his own party, a conservative Republican, especially on issues that don't involve foreign affairs. Politics, the saying goes, stops at the water's edge. So might the Obama-Hagel ticket.

As the war in Iraq dragged on, Hagel, Nebraska's senior senator, started to see more and more parallels with Vietnam, a war he -- like McCain -- experienced firsthand. But where McCain looked at the Bush administration's initial Iraq strategy and saw mismanagement hurting a noble cause, Hagel saw an idea he never liked much to begin with (though he voted to authorize it). He saw it getting worse as it went along, and he said so publicly. Two months before the 2004 election, Hagel called the reconstruction effort "beyond pitiful." Last summer, he told Esquire President Bush was "not accountable anymore" and that "before this is over, you might see calls for his impeachment."

The lifelong conservative -- who nearly ran for the GOP nomination himself before deciding, instead, to retire from the Senate -- is getting some buzz among Democratic activists and Beltway pundits as a possible running mate for Barack Obama. (Once again, a reminder that this is shaping up to be an unusual election.) Hagel gets touted as a moderate Republican who's wise on foreign affairs and ready to reach across the aisle to help the country get back on track, as well as help win independent voters for the ticket.

Hagel's wife, Lilibet, gave Obama $500 in February, and Hagel himself has pointedly declined to endorse McCain. Last month on CNN, Hagel ducked a question about the vice-presidency, passing up the chance to give a robust, Shermanesque "no." (His office declined to comment for this story.)

Selecting a prominent Republican war critic -- and one given to pronouncements like, "I sometimes question whether I'm in the same party I started off in" -- might be the way for Obama to make good on his post-partisan rhetoric. But is the Democratic Party -- let alone the country -- ready for a so-called national unity ticket?

The latest chatter is actually the second iteration of "Hagel for V.P." for 2008. Last year, Hagel was widely rumored to be eying a campaign as New York Mayor Mike Bloomberg's running mate on an independent ticket. The two men spoke at a conference in Oklahoma in early January, stacked with the type of bipartisan "wise men" who wind up on nearly every select commission in Washington. It could have been the starting point for a new political force called the Blue Ribbon Panel Party. But Bloomberg decided not to run once McCain won the GOP nomination, and the moment passed.

Now, some Democrats want Obama to look outside the proverbial box for a running mate, courting the independent voters Bloomberg would have sought. "He was not the candidate of the Democratic establishment although he's courting the establishment now," Democratic strategist Donna Brazile told Salon. "This is an opportunity to go outside the traditional walls of looking for some kind of geographic or political balance [in a running mate]. The country's in such a mood now, it's in a pickle almost," she added, referring to the possible appeal of the national unity ticket.

Hagel would also bring some strong credentials, says former Sen. Bob Kerrey, a Democrat and fellow Nebraskan, who ran for president himself in 1992. "He's fun to hang out with, he's got terrific knowledge of foreign policy and national security, and he enjoys the work," Kerrey said.

On foreign policy, Hagel could help Obama disarm McCain's charge that Obama is inexperienced, and Hagel's Army service in Vietnam might counterbalance McCain's playing up his own Navy career. Domestically, Hagel has a record of aiming for the same kinds of fiscal restraint and limited-government conservatism that McCain touts -- he opposes earmarks, thought No Child Left Behind was a mistake, and opposed a recent farm bill, despite his home state's agricultural interests, because it cost too much. He joined with Democrats and other Republicans, including both Obama and McCain, to sponsor immigration reform legislation, and he mostly stays away from fights over wedge issues when they make their way to the Senate floor.

Still, most people who see Hagel as a good veep choice are only focusing on Hagel's record on Iraq (which, admittedly, is the reason for most of the press Hagel's gotten since he started speaking out). And many of them may not actually know much about what he stands for. As one Democratic strategist on Capitol Hill put it, "Republicans aren't bad because they're Republicans; Republicans are bad because they believe different things than us. And Chuck Hagel doesn't believe those things."

Where the whole fantasy breaks down is that, alas, Hagel does hew to traditional Republican causes.

"Chuck is, I would say, a movement conservative," Kerrey, who considers Hagel a friend, said. The American Conservative Union says Hagel has voted the way it wants on nearly 85 percent of what it considers key votes over his career. Getting him nominated at a convention that may already be somewhat fractious after the long primary battle would be tough. "It's hard to imagine that (delegates) are going to vote on someone at the Democratic Convention who's anti-choice, anti-civil rights for gays and anti-gun control," Kerrey said. "It's not impossible, but it's bumping right up on the edge."

Ever since Bill Clinton picked another moderate Southern baby boomer to run with him 16 years ago, the old conventional wisdom about vice presidents -- that you need a candidate to give you regional and political balance -- has been crumbling. That doesn't mean all the rules have gone out the window, though. "If they go the real unconventional route of choosing someone of the other party or someone who's independent, they better make damn sure that their base will see the need of selecting that person," Brazile said. "They better make sure that person is someone who can rise above the divisions."

In other words, unless a Republican running mate would virtually guarantee Obama a win in November, it's probably not worth the risk of angering Democrats to pick one. Chances are, this is one part of the old politics that Obama won't be willing to mess with.

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2009 prius
1975 monza

Posts: 1917 | From: california | Registered: Apr 2006 | :

N8
¯
Member # 6048

posted

This thread will go down in flames....fast. Can never talk religion or politics in a open forum without offending someone.

But for the record I am going with Obama. I am glad HRC showed her true colors. She had my vote until halfway through. All politicians are a lesser of evils type situation. But like I said many threads ago, just the statement alone of a woman or ethnic president will resonate for years and signify a true change in American politics. At this point I think that is just as important as the platform they stand on.

Again this my opinion. [patriot]

Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005 | :

BCINGUU
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Member # 2397

posted

dp

[ June 17, 2008, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: BCINGUU ]

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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci

Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003 | :

BCINGUU
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Member # 2397

posted

The veep position is like the first lady - just decoration. Vice presidents are nothing but comic sidekicks, they don't have any duties, they are just a presidential backup.

Check out All the President's Vices for a laugh. This is a great collection of funny and surprising facts about VPs. I recommend reading the last few to get started:
43. George Bush
44. Dan Quayle
45. Al Gore
46. Dick Cheney

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93 Cobra #4563 347ci 12.0@118 505rwhp 524tq
90 GT "Saleen Cobra" style convertible 347ci
67 GT "Eleanor" style coupe 347ci

Posts: 1425 | From: San Jose, CA | Registered: Jan 2003 | :

8HATCH8
¯
Member # 6322

posted

I am going with McCain.

Obama has no experience. His famous words are "Change". Has anyone ever heard what his plans are? Besides "Change". He wants to raise takes to help the less fortunate, He wants to open our borders, Does anyone know how he got so popular and where he got all his money from? You might want to look into it.

But like everyone else we have out own opinions, and I am not saying McCain has his CONS.

Wheres Ronald Raegan when we need him?

Posts: 492 | From: 707 | Registered: Dec 2005 | :

75 chevy
¯
Member # 6717

posted

where did Obama get his money/backers?

I dunno I kinda like Obama.. Taxing the oil companies may be a bad idea though.

McCain hits Obama on windfall profits tax.....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080617/ap_on_el_pr/mccain

By DAVID ESPO, AP Special Correspondent 38 minutes ago

SAN ANTONIO - Republican Sen. John McCain criticized Sen. Barack Obama's call for a windfall profits tax on the oil industry on Tuesday, despite leaving the door open to the same idea last month.
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The presumed GOP nominee leveled his attack in prepared remarks in which he said the next president must be willing to break with policies of both the Bush and Clinton administrations to reduce dependence on foreign oil.

"This was a troubling situation 35 years ago. It was an alarming situation 20 years ago. It is a dangerous situation today," the Republican presidential contender said.

While McCain was speaking in Texas, the energy-producing state that is home to President Bush, he is attempting to chart his own course on energy issues. He parts company at times with the Bush administration as he courts independent voters, opposing drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge, for example. Yet he announced on Monday he favors lifting the federal moratorium on offshore drilling to allow states to decide whether to explore coastal waters, an approach backed by Bush that drew quick criticism from some environmentalists.

McCain criticized Obama, his Democratic rival, repeatedly in excerpts of a speech planned for delivery Tuesday evening. He cited Obama's advocacy of a tax on excess oil industry profits as well as the Democrat's vote for President Bush's energy legislation in 2005.

McCain reserved his sharpest words for the windfall profits tax.

"If that plan sounds familiar, it's because that was President Carter's big idea, too. ... I'm all for recycling, but it's better applied to paper and plastic than to the failed policies of the 1970s," McCain said in the excerpts.

But on May 5, campaigning in North Carolina, McCain said he was willing to consider the same proposal.

"I don't like obscene profits being made anywhere. I'd be glad to look not just at the windfall profits tax, that's not what bothers me, but we should look at any incentives that we are giving to people — or industries or corporations — that are distorting the markets," he said.

A spokeswoman said McCain had neither erred in his earlier comment nor changed his mind since. "He said he is willing to look at all ideas not simply Republican or Democratic ideas," said Jill Hazelbaker, McCain's communications director.

McCain said in 2005 he opposed the energy bill in part because, "big oil, coal and gas companies seem to be disproportionately favored under this bill as most of the tax breaks go to traditional industries" at the expense of renewable sources. He also said the measure was too costly.

In the excerpts, McCain said United States' dependence on foreign oil has grown markedly worse since the Arab oil embargo of the 1970s.

He said he favors lifting the existing moratorium on offshore oil drilling and leaving it up to the states to decide whether to explore for energy sources in coastal waters.

That amounted to a reversal from his position in his first presidential campaign in 2000, when he said he favored the existing ban.

He also called for greater use of nuclear power as well as for alternative energy sources and greater conservation measures.

"Over time, we must shift our entire energy economy toward a sustainable mix of new and cleaner power sources. This will include some we use already, such as wind, solar, biofuels, and other sources yet to be invented.

"It will include a variety of new automotive and fuel technologies — clean-burning coal and nuclear energy — and a new system of incentives, under a cap-and-trade policy, to put the power of the market on the side of environmental protection," he said.

The campaign also began airing a new television ad on Tuesday to draw attention to McCain's call for cutting back on the pollutants that cause global warming. The ad, meant to appeal particularly to independent voters and women, portrays McCain as an adversary of President Bush on climate change.

"John McCain stood up to the president and sounded the alarm on global warming — five years ago," the ad states. "Today, he has a realistic plan that will curb greenhouse gas emissions. A plan that will help grow our economy and protect our environment."

The ad replaces another McCain commercial that focused on McCain's family tradition of military service and recalled his five years as a prisoner of war. McCain is spending at least $2 million a week on advertising, airing a modest number of spots on national cable and in broadcast stations in the battleground states of Nevada, New Hampshire, Colorado, Missouri, New Mexico, Michigan, Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Iowa. McCain has also been on the air West Virginia markets that reach regions in Ohio.

[ June 17, 2008, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: gt from 650 ]

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2009 prius
1975 monza

Posts: 1917 | From: california | Registered: Apr 2006 | :

ChrisS
¯
Member # 6699

posted

quote:
Originally posted by N8:
just the statement alone of a woman or ethnic president will resonate for years and signify a true change in American politics. At this point I think that is just as important as the platform they stand on.

affirmative action at work!!!!

Posts: 632 | From: Dallas Texas | Registered: Apr 2006 | :

rgtrahn
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Member # 7133

posted