This is topic Whats the best combo u can think of to run solid 10's N/A? in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347
10.92@123.9 1.495 ET Drags Sac Yellow94GT94GT, N/A 347
10.98@125.73 1.55, ET Drags, SAC 91pony 91GT N/A 347 (93Pony Driving)

Damn nice accomplishments yall I know I haven't even finished my blue car yet, but I'm already thinkin of re-doing it over again I don't know how much my notch weighs, but I did do the AJE K-member, D&D A-arms, X2C upper/lower control arms, Flaming River manual rack, Strange adj. struts/Lakewood 50/50 shocks, & X2C coil-overs all around so far. Is there anyway to hit the 10's N/A with a F/I 331"/TKO/lightened up notch combo & still be able to drive the car around town on pump gas? Also what other things can I do to lighten up the notch some more?

Few pics of the car in current state (haven't even finished the motor) Damn I'm a slacker




[ December 27, 2005, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/02/RobsMachine/index.php

theres a good one right there. best time of you already know 10.86. car weighs 2840 with no driver and no gas.

[ December 27, 2005, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
sup evan, wanna help me re-do my motor?
 

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Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
If it were me, the combo would go something like this:

10.5:1 347
AFR 185 or 205
Vic Jr 5.0 intake
Anderson N91 Hi rev
75mm TB
80mm MAF
42lb injectors
4.10 or 4.30 gear
26in slick

Should be good for 400+ rwhp. Just remember, 6250rpm rev limiter won't do the job with that cam and intake.
 

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Posted by 89point. (Member # 6078) on :
 
the lx on the left is hella clean what color is that, i miss my lx.
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
oops this was supposed to be a pm.

[ December 27, 2005, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]
 

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Posted by 88DroptopGT (Member # 2535) on :
 
Did you dyno the motor yet?

There are handfuls of people doing 10's with a 331. Blown 302's did it awhile ago.

What is the C:R ratio on the 331 and cc on the heads you got?
 

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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 
There are lots of easier ways to get into the 10's then going N/A. If you ask me, all of those combos stink

It really is mainly up to what you want out of your setup. I wanted N/A mostly off the shelf parts, (not alot of porting or customizing), to remain EFI, yet keep the car something I could drive around town and enjoy, (heaven forbit CHP finds me..lol).

If you ask me, none of the above mentioned cars are "solid" 10 second cars either
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
maybe...

-10.5:1 347
-AFR 185s DEFINATELY cleaned up, the intake is real touchy on the afrs but 10cfm is attainable by an experienced head porter with MINIMAL work, this is all that would need to be done for this build. approximately 1 MINUTE (if that) of porting on the exhaust and you could see damn near 10 cfm, then fully polish it and theres a few more there. no problem.
-around .600 lift solid roller (if you wanna go the solid route)
-zero deck the block
-run .035 -.040 thick SCE titan copper head gaskets. these are really nice. this will also give you the desired affective quench. or any good quality head gasket of the same thickness.
-you could also coat everything. (more to discuss here)
-i would also run a girdle and windage tray
theres so much more to talk about. like the machine work, the coatings, a whole lot of little things, it all depends on how deep your pockets are. but i now your ballin nick, so you should have no problems.

if you go carb, the edlebrock air gap get my vote.
 

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Posted by Team SOLO (Member # 722) on :
 
How light is your car? Let me put it on the 'Team SOLO' diet and help get you into the mid nines naturally aspirated
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luke87GT:
[qb] If it were me, the combo would go something like this:

10.5:1 347
AFR 185 or 205
Vic Jr 5.0 intake
Anderson N91 Hi rev
75mm TB
80mm MAF
42lb injectors
4.10 or 4.30 gear
26in slick

I'd like to keep it a 331 if possible. I have the parts listed above except for RPM II intake (opened up to 75mm TB), XE282HR cam, & 36lb injectors.

[ December 28, 2005, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 89point.:
the lx on the left is hella clean what color is that, i miss my lx.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Yellow94GT:
There are lots of easier ways to get into the 10's then going N/A. If you ask me, all of those combos stink

It really is mainly up to what you want out of your setup. I wanted N/A mostly off the shelf parts, (not alot of porting or customizing), to remain EFI, yet keep the car something I could drive around town and enjoy, (heaven forbit CHP finds me..lol).

If you ask me, none of the above mentioned cars are "solid" 10 second cars either

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I'd like to keep her a 331, otherwise everything you've stated Drew, sounds right. I wanna be able to drive it around town once in a while. Also on pump gas
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Team SOLO:
How light is your car? Let me put it on the 'Team SOLO' diet and help get you into the mid nines naturally aspirated

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LOL I have no idea how much it weighs at the moment. What other tricks to cut the weight off, but not be too horrible to drive around on the street?
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
I ain't ballin man, trust me! Sent u both a PM Evan, Josh

[ December 28, 2005, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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Posted by jordan_0806 (Member # 5888) on :
 
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

[ December 28, 2005, 03:26 AM: Message edited by: jordan_0806 ]
 

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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

Lets not assume that both the other two cars are gutted race cars. Even with the weight savings I have, (tubular K and A arms, coil overs, etc), my car still weighs in a bit more than Heathers Fox. These SN95's are pigs, well, they are pigs compared to everything but an LS1

On a side note, my car made 435 rwhp with a sanding role clean up on the Vic 5.0 intake and a mild port job on the Vic Jr's the only time it was on the dyno Next time out I'm looking for around 445 rwhp
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

we also have mostly stock suspension, and i've cut a string of 1.4X sixtys.

we've made 390 rwhp on a mustang dyno on the motor, which would equate to a solid 420 plus on a dyno jet no problem. all with little AFR 165s.
 

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Posted by BlackDrop50 (Member # 1715) on :
 
that car on the right looks familiar
 

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Posted by rico91stang (Member # 2389) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

we also have mostly stock suspension, and i've cut a string of 1.4X sixtys.

we've made [u]390 rwhp on a mustang dyno[/u] on the motor, which would equate to a solid 420 plus on a dyno jet no problem. all with little [u]AFR 165s[/u].

---

WHAT???!!! Please explain.

 

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Posted by rico91stang (Member # 2389) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

i would also run a girdle and windage tray

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

Lets not assume that both the other two cars are gutted race cars. Even with the weight savings I have, (tubular K and A arms, coil overs, etc), my car still weighs in a bit more than Heathers Fox. These SN95's are pigs, well, they are pigs compared to everything but an LS1

On a side note, my car made 435 rwhp with a sanding role clean up on the Vic 5.0 intake and a mild port job on the Vic Jr's the only time it was on the dyno Next time out I'm looking for around 445 rwhp

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

Lets not assume that both the other two cars are gutted race cars. Even with the weight savings I have, (tubular K and A arms, coil overs, etc), my car still weighs in a bit more than Heathers Fox. These SN95's are pigs, well, they are pigs compared to everything but an LS1

On a side note, my car made 435 rwhp with a sanding role clean up on the Vic 5.0 intake and a mild port job on the Vic Jr's the only time it was on the dyno Next time out I'm looking for around 445 rwhp

---

Yes Drew..I did not assume that your car was super light either....But I'm a fox fan as it is...so STFU an GTFO....lol j/k.....I'm sure you and Shaun will have fun talking shit and running each other at the "track" anyday now....

---

Fox fan or not, I thought this post was about good 10 second combos, not personal preference over Foxs and SN's.

Also, Shaun and I talk shit daily. But we call it, "sharing ideas"

[ December 28, 2005, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Yellow94GT ]
 

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Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
why stay N/A throw a blower or turbo on your 331 with its light weight you can run 10's all day long and drive it like a stocker untill the wheels fall off. There are some great running 347 N/A combos on here but I bet they scare the hell out of a smog machine and we do live in CA. JMO. There are a few power added 331's on here running 8's and 9's
 

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Posted by 91PONY (Member # 206) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

Lets not assume that both the other two cars are gutted race cars. Even with the weight savings I have, (tubular K and A arms, coil overs, etc), my car still weighs in a bit more than Heathers Fox. These SN95's are pigs, well, they are pigs compared to everything but an LS1

On a side note, my car made 435 rwhp with a sanding role clean up on the Vic 5.0 intake and a mild port job on the Vic Jr's the only time it was on the dyno Next time out I'm looking for around 445 rwhp

---

Yes Drew..I did not assume that your car was super light either....But I'm a fox fan as it is...so STFU an GTFO....lol j/k.....I'm sure you and Shaun will have fun talking shit and running each other at the "track" anyday now....

---

Fox fan or not, I thought this post was about good 10 second combos, not personal preference over Foxs and SN's.

Also, Shaun and I talk shit daily. But we call it, "sharing ideas"

---

Drew knows that he can talk shit about my car all he wants and I'll still luv him...

 

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Posted by FasterDamnit (Member # 442) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 91PONY:
Drew knows that he can talk shit about my car all he wants and I'll still luv him...

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You're the only one...

 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
10's N/A isn't a problem @3200lbs & under.......what IS a problem is doing with the EFI intake. That is the major restriction in the combination. You can throw on the biggest heads you can get your hands on....but the typical EFI intake can NOT keep up. What's needed is either a Carburator setup or a Carb manifold converted to EFI.
Another hertile is pump gas....91 octane will only support about 11:1 compression with full timing advance on these motors.
Still, if put together correctly, it can & has been done.

This guy did it with a SuperVic EFI intake:
http://bbs.hardcore50.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30308
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rico91stang:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

i would also run a girdle and windage tray

---

Windage tray good.
Girdle bad.

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you must have bumped your head son.

[ December 28, 2005, 11:10 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rico91stang:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

we also have mostly stock suspension, and i've cut a string of 1.4X sixtys.

we've made [u]390 rwhp on a mustang dyno[/u] on the motor, which would equate to a solid 420 plus on a dyno jet no problem. all with little [u]AFR 165s[/u].

---

WHAT???!!! Please explain.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rico91stang:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

i would also run a girdle and windage tray

---

Windage tray good.
Girdle bad.

---

you must have bumped your head son.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlackDrop50:
that car on the right looks familiar

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yeah, i think it's for sale again, huh?
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rico91stang:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

i would also run a girdle and windage tray

---

Windage tray good.
Girdle bad.

---

you must have bumped your head son.

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LOL

The same thing I was thinking.

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x3
 

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Posted by rico91stang (Member # 2389) on :
 
Girdles do close to almost nothing when it comes to strengthening a 302 block. Just keeps it in a nice pile when the block splits. Vally pan girdles are somewhat cool though.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stockblock.php


Q: Will a main stud girdle help keep the block from breaking?
A: Ha, ha, no. All it will is hold all the parts together in a tidy pile. Some of the failures pictured below were equipped with stud girdles.


Also from what I read from 93 pony certain ones deflect if I remember correctly because of heat. Maybe he can chime in on it.
 

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Posted by rico91stang (Member # 2389) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rico91stang:

quote:

---

Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

---

Originally posted by jordan_0806:
91Pony's car is one the more impressive cars out of the bunch....It still has full interior and Basically a stock suspension...but still cuts 15 60 ft's.....

such a perfect combo of motor....

347
Victor Jr HEads and Victor 5.0 intake...
Shaun's (93Pony) super porting work is what got him the power out of it....

plus it revs freely past 7K..and hold it there....

lots of other tricks and all that he did to it.....

but yeah 430RW or so with 4.30's on slicks in a high revving fox could get you to the 10's

---

we also have mostly stock suspension, and i've cut a string of 1.4X sixtys.

we've made [u]390 rwhp on a mustang dyno[/u] on the motor, which would equate to a solid 420 plus on a dyno jet no problem. all with little [u]AFR 165s[/u].

---

WHAT???!!! Please explain.

---

which part?

---

Was it on pump or race? What was the cam like and what did you rev it to?
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Main cap girdles are near worthless. If aluminum they can actually do harm to the motor (expands at a different rate than the Iron mains & can push the main away from each other unless there is 'play' in the girdle where it mates to the studs.....in which case what good is it?). If you must have one, steel is the way to go, but it will not keep a stock block from splitting at 600RWHP.
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347
10.92@123.9 1.495 ET Drags Sac Yellow94GT94GT, N/A 347
10.98@125.73 1.55, ET Drags, SAC 91pony 91GT N/A 347 (93Pony Driving)

Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?
 

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Posted by Hungry Hippo (Member # 537) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rico91stang:
Girdles do close to almost nothing when it comes to strengthening a 302 block. Just keeps it in a nice pile when the block splits. Vally pan girdles are somewhat cool though.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stockblock.php


Q: Will a main stud girdle help keep the block from breaking?
A: Ha, ha, no. All it will is hold all the parts together in a tidy pile. Some of the failures pictured below were equipped with stud girdles.


Also from what I read from 93 pony certain ones deflect if I remember correctly because of heat. Maybe he can chime in on it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347


Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347
10.92@123.9 1.495 ET Drags Sac Yellow94GT94GT, N/A 347
10.98@125.73 1.55, ET Drags, SAC 91pony 91GT N/A 347 (93Pony Driving)

Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
Main cap girdles are near worthless. If aluminum they can actually do harm to the motor (expands at a different rate than the Iron mains & can push the main away from each other unless there is 'play' in the girdle where it mates to the studs.....in which case what good is it?). If you must have one, steel is the way to go, but it will not keep a stock block from splitting at 600RWHP.

---

See..
 

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Posted by t top freak (Member # 6269) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347
10.92@123.9 1.495 ET Drags Sac Yellow94GT94GT, N/A 347
10.98@125.73 1.55, ET Drags, SAC 91pony 91GT N/A 347 (93Pony Driving)

Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

Stock block and G Force T5

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CDT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347


Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

that is a stock block, stock t-5

---

stock t-5

[ January 01, 2006, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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Posted by CDT (Member # 5004) on :
 
hpoefully that changes soon..
 

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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:

quote:

---

Originally posted by CDT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347


Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

that is a stock block, stock t-5

---

stock t-5

---

I think "several" stock T5's would explain it better
 

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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by t top freak:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347
10.92@123.9 1.495 ET Drags Sac Yellow94GT94GT, N/A 347
10.98@125.73 1.55, ET Drags, SAC 91pony 91GT N/A 347 (93Pony Driving)

Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

Stock block and G Force T5

---

how do you like that tranny?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:

quote:

---

Originally posted by CDT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347


Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

---

that is a stock block, stock t-5

---

stock t-5

---

I think "several" stock T5's would explain it better

---

only 2
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
Evan said the 10.86 was in my old car! Yay yay!



[ January 02, 2006, 04:59 AM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
G Force T5 [/qb][/QUOTE]how do you like that tranny? [/qb][/QUOTE]Eh, its ok. [/QB][/QUOTE]

What exactly is a G-Force T-5? How would u compare them to the TKO?
 

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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 
There is an excellent write up on them here,

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/12/T5Rebuild/index.php

If any of you are going to run one, I recommend the lightest clutch disk you can find.

[ January 02, 2006, 08:17 AM: Message edited by: Yellow94GT ]
 

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Posted by CDT (Member # 5004) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Evan said the 10.86 was in my old car! Yay yay!

---

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Main cap girdles are near worthless. If aluminum they can actually do harm to the motor (expands at a different rate than the Iron mains & can push the main away from each other unless there is 'play' in the girdle where it mates to the studs.....in which case what good is it?). If you must have one, steel is the way to go, but it will not keep a stock block from splitting at 600RWHP.

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blah blah blah.... tell me something new shaun. hehe i know it wont stop the block from splitting. but by tieing all the caps together and by making them like one, it really helps to prevent the caps from moving forwards and backwards. it also helps by preventing the caps from jumping up and down which is what can happen during detonation.
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 

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Originally posted by rico91stang:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Main cap girdles are near worthless. If aluminum they can actually do harm to the motor (expands at a different rate than the Iron mains & can push the main away from each other unless there is 'play' in the girdle where it mates to the studs.....in which case what good is it?). If you must have one, steel is the way to go, but it will not keep a stock block from splitting at 600RWHP.

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See..

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Nice read up, but I couldn't view the rest. I need to subscribe. How much did the G-Force T-5 run u Drew?

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Nice read up, but I couldn't view the rest. I need to subscribe. How much did the G-Force T-5 run u Drew?

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I believe my gear set was around $1100 with all the upgrades. Labor for installing the gear set I guess ranges on where you have it done. I use a place called Modern Driveline for all my tranny work, www.moderndriveline.com If you are interested I would send them an email. Bruce, (the owner), will email you back all the details. I wouldn't bother calling. Some dude will answer the phone who never knows anything...lol

Make sure you mention my name
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 

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Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Nice read up, but I couldn't view the rest. I need to subscribe. How much did the G-Force T-5 run u Drew?

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I believe my gear set was around $1100 with all the upgrades. Labor for installing the gear set I guess ranges on where you have it done. I use a place called Modern Driveline for all my tranny work, www.moderndriveline.com If you are interested I would send them an email. Bruce, (the owner), will email you back all the details. I wouldn't bother calling. Some dude will answer the phone who never knows anything...lol

Make sure you mention my name

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ahhh yes, modern driveline, correction... owner with a S at the end. Bruce and Will. its a shame there moving to idaho, they do excellent work.
 

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Posted by mach1killa (Member # 5069) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Evan said the 10.86 was in my old car! Yay yay!

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quote:

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Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

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Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

quote:

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Nice read up, but I couldn't view the rest. I need to subscribe. How much did the G-Force T-5 run u Drew?

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I believe my gear set was around $1100 with all the upgrades. Labor for installing the gear set I guess ranges on where you have it done. I use a place called Modern Driveline for all my tranny work, www.moderndriveline.com If you are interested I would send them an email. Bruce, (the owner), will email you back all the details. I wouldn't bother calling. Some dude will answer the phone who never knows anything...lol

Make sure you mention my name

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ahhh yes, modern driveline, correction... owner with a S at the end. Bruce and Will. its a shame there moving to idaho, they do excellent work.

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Them moving to Iadho will work out great for me, I'm planning on moving there in the next couple years myself
 

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Posted by JoeT (Member # 298) on :
 
for 'easy' mid 10 second ET's NA I'd personally go for a 460/C4 combo with whatever H/C and carb intake I could find, I believe it runs around $2500 or so for the engine itself. pretty impressive to do it on the 302 blocks though, just not 'easy' IMHO.
 

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Posted by 2stang (Member # 4237) on :
 

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Originally posted by Yellow94GT:
There is an excellent write up on them here,

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2005/12/T5Rebuild/index.php

If any of you are going to run one, I recommend the lightest clutch disk you can find.

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Originally posted by rico91stang:
Girdles do close to almost nothing when it comes to strengthening a 302 block. Just keeps it in a nice pile when the block splits. Vally pan girdles are somewhat cool though.

http://www.turbomustangs.com/techarticles/stockblock.php


Q: Will a main stud girdle help keep the block from breaking?
A: Ha, ha, no. All it will is hold all the parts together in a tidy pile. Some of the failures pictured below were equipped with stud girdles.


Also from what I read from 93 pony certain ones deflect if I remember correctly because of heat. Maybe he can chime in on it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by stoauto:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Main cap girdles are near worthless. If aluminum they can actually do harm to the motor (expands at a different rate than the Iron mains & can push the main away from each other unless there is 'play' in the girdle where it mates to the studs.....in which case what good is it?). If you must have one, steel is the way to go, but it will not keep a stock block from splitting at 600RWHP.

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blah blah blah.... tell me something new shaun. hehe i know it wont stop the block from splitting. but by tieing all the caps together and by making them like one, it really helps to prevent the caps from moving forwards and backwards. it also helps by preventing the caps from jumping up and down which is what can happen during detonation.

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How can a main girdle hold the caps from moving around? It does not possitively lock the main caps to the gridle....not like a rocker stud girdle that possitiviely locks all poly-locks & studs together. A main girdle sits on top of the caps....just like a washer & bolt head does. If the caps are going to walk with a washer/bolt torqued to 75ft/lbs, they'll walk with a girdle on top of the washers torqued to 75ft/lbs. The bolts/studs are a fairly loose fit in the main caps. Tying all the bolts/studs together will help the studs/bolts from moving, but the caps themselves can still move around the bolts/studs. With clearances in the .0015-.002 range, any amount of movement can be detramental... If the main girdle does not possitively hold the caps themselves, it can not hold the caps from walking.
As for the caps jumping up & down......I can see it helping out there. Then again, don't detonate the bitch!

Aluminum girdles can be a bad thing....simply because the aluminum expands at nearly twice the rate of Iron & can push the bolts/studs which can affect clearances. For this reason the aluminum girdles out there are not a 'tight' fit...

Most think that girdles are neccessary when power exceeds 500RW...as if a girdle is going to give them an added measure of saftey at high HP levels. By design it's ment to control cap walk at high RPM's... (which id doesn't do very well). It's a big-ass marketing ploy if you ask me.
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
i see where your coming from, and it does make sense, but we've machined and freshened SEVERAL high performance motors that have not had girdles, some good some bad, and when a motor detonates or has cap walk it leaves metal behind on the caps and block where the caps sit. by adding a girdle in our experience minimized or eliminated those problems. a girdle is never a bad thing if you ask me. or you could always just do the dart block upgrade.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Gotta love the Dart!
I've got an 8.2 deck in my car.....when I buy one for the wife I think one of us will end up with a 9.5 deck.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 

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Originally posted by stoauto:
i see where your coming from, and it does make sense, but we've machined and freshened SEVERAL high performance motors that have not had girdles, some good some bad, and when a motor detonates or has cap walk it leaves metal behind on the caps and block where the caps sit. by adding a girdle in our experience minimized or eliminated those problems. a girdle is never a bad thing if you ask me. or you could always just do the dart block upgrade.

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Haven't seen that myself...
What I have seen is girdled 4.6 iron blocks....aluminum girdles. What a big-ass waste of money! The 4.6 is a 'Y' block desing...very strong & locks the main caps in multiple ways (depending on Romeo vs Windsor).
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
some things you'll only see/learn at a machine shop. j/k. later.
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Gotta love the Dart!
I've got an 8.2 deck in my car.....when I buy one for the wife I think one of us will end up with a 9.5 deck.

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so uhh, wheres mine? christmas was over a week ago.
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
I'd still run a girdle on our stock block rebuilds. Just not an aluminum one I don't know, I guess it just makes me feel a little more secure & it's cheap anyways. Shaun, are u runnin one on ur wife's car? How about ur car, Drew?

[ January 04, 2006, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
I'd still run a girdle on our stock block rebuilds. Just not an aluminum one I don't know, I guess it just makes me feel a little more secure & it's cheap anyways. Shaun, are u runnin one on ur wife's car? How about ur car, Drew?

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I run one.
 

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Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
my main point is, there is nothing "bad" about runnin a girdle, period. even if some think it only helps a little, so what, its better than nothing. everyone has there own theories.
 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 

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Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

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Originally posted by t top freak:

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Originally posted by Yellow94GT:

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
10.86@127.00 1.52 ET Drags, Sac stoauto 89LX Carb'ed N/A 347
10.92@123.9 1.495 ET Drags Sac Yellow94GT94GT, N/A 347
10.98@125.73 1.55, ET Drags, SAC 91pony 91GT N/A 347 (93Pony Driving)

Did yall run these times on seasoned stock blocks or aftermarket? Also, what transmissions are yall runnin?

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Stock block and G Force T5

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how do you like that tranny?

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Eh, its ok.

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Originally posted by STREETFIGHTER50:
Hey yall, what do u think of these new "stroker" HR cams from COMP?

http://www.powerandperformancenews.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=35-775-8&Category_Code=FRDST

http://www.powerandperformancenews.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=35-776-9&Category_Code=FRDST

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I think I sell them a lot cheaper

 

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
I know that for sure already But u think any big gains over the XE282HR?
 

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Posted by rico91stang (Member # 2389) on :
 

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
No I don't run a girdle....wouldn't waste my money on one.

My 331 TT stock block combo had a Probe 1/2" Steel girdle on it. (basically the strongest one you can get.) The caps were machined for the girdle & once installed the mains were line-bore/honed. (The recomended way to install a girdle)

The motor made 430/508RW max & never reved behond 6400rpm.
That block is sitting at the shop.....twisted & unsuable. #2 main twisted .002"....which is enough to lock up the crank. Block may be cracked.....at the very least it's twisted.

Cheap? I wouldn't call it cheap. The Probe 3/8" Steel girdle is what....$179? 1/2" is $325. Then add machine work if you want it installed correctly. How much is it to line bore/hone the mains these days? How about machining the main caps to fit the girdle? Add all that up & you'll be in it around $400-$600.....which is definately not CHEAP insurance in my book.

That money would be beter spent upgrading the stock block to a Dart, R302, Boss, World, etc. You can find these blocks used for good prices sometimes.

However, if it gives you piece of mind to buy a main girdle.....I guess that's really what they're selling.

My opinion:
If you plan on pushing the limits of the stock block, it's money WELL spent in the long run to upgrade to a stronger block.
There's a saying among engine builders.... You don't put a $2000 rotating assembly in a $200 block. & you don't put a $200 rotating assembly in a $2000 block.

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Posted by STREETFIGHTER50 (Member # 5012) on :
 
Damn Rico u still bringin this up! Let's just say, no I would not spend $400-600 to put a girdle on the "right way". That would be insane. If they all cost that much, then I'd definately look into an aftermarket block or into the 351w as u did. I think anyone runnin the stock rebuilds will still run the cheaper steel girdles regardless

[ January 07, 2006, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: STREETFIGHTER50 ]
 

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