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Author
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Topic: Just finished watching " sicko "
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SLOWBACK 67
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Member # 6348
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my hat goes off to Mr. Moore ...... He should be a politician. He makes it look and sound like it's sooooooo easy to give everyone free health care.
I'm going to do a little fact checking...... But it shouldn't take anyone very long to realize, if America want's free health care it's going to cost you ( in taxes that is )
I would just like to add that I don't feel our system is perfect, but I don't think any system is. In the movie he made it seem as if the health care was free for everyone..... I feel if we had a system like that here that people would take advantage of it ( even more then people do now )
If you saw the movie what did you get from it ?
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Originally posted by turbo50:
I have no intenions of keeping anyones parts or taking anyones money.
Posts: 8582 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Dec 2005
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rmadison007
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Member # 8670
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You already pay health care premiums...If premiums decrease and taxes increase to pay for universal health care...then essentially ur losing nothing and gaining universal health care...what costs more? Going to the doctor everyday for a check up and catch cancer at stage 1 or going once every 4 years and catching cancer at stage 3...an increase in available preventive care will decrease the overall cost of Health Care...Also on Sicko it was very disturbing when he took all of those people to Cuba for free health care and they were all treated better than here...That one lady was very upset when she found that the same medication she spends hundreds on costing pennies over there...Also how everyone of them were taken off of many of their medications because they were the reason why they were getting sicker...crazy...also i love that in france college is a free as high school...one last thing... It is interesting how he showed that almost every other country has universal health care...The worst part of the movie was when that Black Women lost her daughter because she had to transfer her daughter to a Kaiser facility because Kaiser would not cover her daughter at the hospital they were at...that is bullshit...
Posts: 533 | Registered: Oct 2008
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N8
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Member # 6048
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We are one of the only nations that do not have a free health care system. But you are right no system is perfect. But our system is seriously flawed. Not sure if free health care is the way, but it is a seriously flawed system on so many levels.
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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Wolfie351
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Member # 651
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It's true, there is no such thing as free health care. We pay for it one way or another whether it's government provided or company benefits. The fact is, the more people who are covered, the cheaper it is for everyone so we should do our best to get as many people covered as possible.
If there isn't a public option, there needs to be some sort of law that requires insurance companies to offer the same rates to small businesses as they do large companies.
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1985 Mustang GT: 351W, Griggs, Baer, etc etc
Posts: 1214 | From: South Bay | Registered: Dec 2001
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rmadison007
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Member # 8670
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quote:
Originally posted by Wolfie351:
It's true, there is no such thing as free health care. We pay for it one way or another whether it's government provided or company benefits. The fact is, the more people who are covered, the cheaper it is for everyone so we should do our best to get as many people covered as possible.
If there isn't a public option, there needs to be some sort of law that requires insurance companies to offer the same rates to small businesses as they do large companies.
Agreed...People think universal health care is going to cost more than what we already pay...if anything the money will just switch hands from the insurance companies to the government or public option...The more people covered and the inclusion of a public option and/or government run should reduce insurance premiums to actual cost...you would be surprised on how much of your premiums pay for the insurance companies overhead...the biggest joke in the world is Kaiser considers itself non profit...I bet their CEOs believe it too when they cash their bonus checks!
Posts: 533 | Registered: Oct 2008
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
The cost of healthcare HAS to increase, at least in the beginning, for the simple fact that someone has to pay for the 45+ MILLION people currently without coverage. Once established, the possiblity is there to decrease...but again, how will it decrease with increased utilization by individuals previously without coverage?
The "public option" coverage proposal, provided by the gov't, is a joke, IMO. The gov't provides a cheaper coverage to the general population, in hopes more will take part...yet will police the program as well? Zero "true" checks and balances. Can't be the boss, the provider, and the business all in one.
More than 73% of the doctors love the idea though, as they will have decreased malpractice premiums and a guaranteed job. Another factor that isn't publicized is Moral Hazard. With each plan, there isn't a cut-n-dried baseline of what can/cannot be done. It happens enough with HMO's...
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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SLOWBACK 67
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Member # 6348
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I have a job with good health care. I have not had a problem with getting stuff done at the doctors here in America ever.
If you don't have a job with health care... Don't work there. No one said you have to work at a job that doesn't offer it.
I would like to know if a doctor makes a mistake in a country that has this " free " health care..... Can you sue them?
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Originally posted by turbo50:
I have no intenions of keeping anyones parts or taking anyones money.
Posts: 8582 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Dec 2005
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N8
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Member # 6048
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by slowback67:
I have a job with good health care. I have not had a problem with getting stuff done at the doctors here in America ever.
If you don't have a job with health care... Don't work there. No one said you have to work at a job that doesn't offer it.
I would like to know if a doctor makes a mistake in a country that has this " free " health care..... Can you sue them?
Yes you can.
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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t top freak
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Member # 6269
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im not up to date on the healthcare bill, but the current system is seriously flawed and needs to be fixed.
i wish politicians would for once set aside politics, come together and do whats right for the country.
45 million people with out insurance isnt acceptable
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1994 cobra - sold!
1986 t top gt - parted out and sold!
on the hunt for another
Posts: 1023 | From: sacramento | Registered: Dec 2005
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N8
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Member # 6048
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by t top freak:
im not up to date on the healthcare bill, but the current system is seriously flawed and needs to be fixed.
i wish politicians would for once set aside politics, come together and do whats right for the country.
45 million people with out insurance isnt acceptable
Amen
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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rmadison007
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Member # 8670
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The total cost of insurance for 45 million people will be the same or less than not insuring 45 million people...If you understand how health insurance works today you should understand that regardless if you have health insurance or not if u need to go to the hospital than hospitals must provide you with care and deal with who pays later, either through your taxes, Medi-Cal or Medicare, or your premiums...A majority of those who don't have health insurance use the Emergency Room as clinics which cost two to three times the cost of a normal visit...If they were to provide health insurance to all then everyone would just go to a normal doctor visit...Also if you increase the amount of time people do preventive medicine seeing the Doctors more often it will decreases the cost of treating people with complex illness that could be treated earlier with less expensive medications and procedures...Most don't understand that one of the biggest problems related to the cost of Health Care are the employer who don't provide adequate coverage for their employees...Most look at it and say "If you don't have a job with health care... Don't work there. No one said you have to work at a job that doesn't offer it." and then complain about paying higher taxes. If that person is not provided health insurance by their employer you eventually will pay for their healthcare insurance with your taxes when they go to the hospital either through health care premiums, medi-cal or medicare...you are paying for universal healthcare already!!!This reform is just lowering your portion!...
Posts: 533 | Registered: Oct 2008
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RedBaron
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Member # 4361
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I feel for you, slowback- I snuck into "Farehncrap 9/11", didn't pay a dime for it, and I felt ripped off twice over.
You guys are missing two points here:
1: Micheal Moore hasn't seen his own penis, without a magnifying mirror, for about 20 years- it was small then, too. He's also a lying sack of crap.
He currently tells people, after making multi-millions from his movies, that Capitalism hasnt done anything for him. And yet, we can't see his 'movie' for free... he charges us, like any evil capitalist would.
As I said, fat guy, needle dick.
2: There are a shitload of stories out there, regarding all of those other 'civilized' countries, and how they would like to kill their 'free health care'. Canada, also known as America's hat, is currently beyond bankruptcy in their health care, and the idiots in charge of that system are howling for 'change', AWAY from universal health.
While our medical system does have it's flaws, the big, obvious fact here is this: Nobody is flying to Cuba, Africa, The Middle east, or any other toilet smelling, fly infested, third world nation to get health care. They are coming here.
And, the '45 million uninsured' number is subject to which lying piece of crap told it to you- lots of proof to the otherwise, you see, and more opinions(estimates) than a$$holes.
Here's a thought: why do we need to trash the entire health system? I mean, obviously, more of it is good than bad, right?
How about an iron clad patient's bill of rights?
How about a guarentee that when I'm 65, I won't be told to "just take some pain pills, we're not going to give you that hip replacement." (This is a fairly direct quote from our current groovy Commander in Chief, by the way!)
Or, better yet, how about somebody point out all of the current laws, rules, and regulations that cause our current health care to cost so damn much? How about we fix that?
Maybe it would be different, if you could trust ANY of the rat bastards currently called 'politicians', but right now I say HELL NO, because I don't trust any of the pigs. Politicians lie- even the Democrat ones.
Thank you, good night, and amen.
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1988 4i coupe,
88 gt
85 ttop-
Posts: 830 | From: S.S.F. | Registered: Apr 2004
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N8
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Member # 6048
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posted
Our system is flawed. I do not think it can be "fixed". That would be like putting a band aid on a shotgun wound. I believe it needs a overhaul or replacement. Free care I am not 100% sure of either. But it is working more often than it is not abroad.
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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rmadison007
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Member # 8670
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Regardless on how you feel about politicians, the government or Michael Moore, our healthcare system terrible...It is actually more bad than good...and actually we do have a universal healthcare system, but insurance companies are the only ones benefiting from it right now...People think that this reform will cost more money than what we already would or will pay...ask yourself this...Why is it that when u receive health coverage from your employer and you pay close to $1,000 a month you still have to pay a $10-30 co pay on top of that to see a doctor? It costs you roughly $510 - 550 for every 20 minute visit...That is what is not right...Your premium includes the cost to insure those millions who don't have insurance, but needed care...the others who qualify for medicaid or medicare are paid through your taxes...we are already paying for these people so lets reform the system to lower the costs we are already paying...
Posts: 533 | Registered: Oct 2008
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asskickn88
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Member # 4957
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It seems the majority of people that are in favor of universal health care are the people that don't have any. The biggest problem I see is an insane amount of wait time to go see a Dr. If people can go to see their dr for free then most will go every time they stub their toe. I know what its like to not have coverage, I went without it for many years but I don't feel the government should take over and force it on everyone. Did anyone hear about the fine for not having coverage? Something like $3500 a year if you don't have heath coverage, just like car insurance now. Shit's getting bad and only getting worse, the government knows whats good for you.
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Three 540 Bimmers and a 5.0 Explorer.... got a Ford back in the stable!
It's time for the country to do what Obama's own father did.
Abandon him.
Posts: 6069 | From: Rocklin, Ca | Registered: Oct 2004
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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posted
Heath care reform was attempted no fewer than 3 times in the 1900's, each time met with strong opposition and was defeated.
The problem lies that someone has to pay for it and the resounding majority do not want taxes to rise to pay for the uninsured. It's nice to think that healthcare can magically be fixed by a proposal, but it won't happen...history has proven this. Then why do we attempt reform? For the simple fact that people use Emergency services for healthcare needs. The current system encourages this, as people will not be turned away due to the inability to pay. Why "buy" insurance, when you can just wait till you're severely ill to obtain treatment?
What needs to happen is this...people need to be responsible for themselves. How about a lil personal responsibility? You pay for car insurance, don't you? You drive that car everyday...it's taken care of. How about applying that thought process to one's own well being. It's not a Employer's responsibility to provide health coverage, it's a bonus to the employee, simple as that. If you want to be taken care of, take care of yourself.
We (the US) do not have a Universal healthcare system. We have a single-payer healthcare system, in which a single fund (Medicare/Tricare/SCHIP/etc) pays for treatment. If the treatment isn't fully covered, the patient picks up the rest, unless there is a third-party insurer, such as a spouse that has coverage...and then they are potentially billed.
There is only one "near" universal healthcare coverage currently in the US...and that's the state of Massachussetts...and those residents had to PAY for their coverage. It wasn't handed out.
Gotta love the stuff you learn sitting at the dinner table. My wife deals with this everyday...
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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rmadison007
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Member # 8670
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Answer me this.....When someone who does not have health insurance goes to the Doctor and receives care and is billed but does not or can not pay...who pays their bill? When you receive medicare and medicaid coverage and go to the hospital and receive care...who pays? When you go to the Doctor and receive care who pays? In all situation you do...If someone stiffs the hospital it trickles back to you when your premiums increase or copays increase...If someone is on medicare or medicaid you taxes are paying for their coverage...We do have universal healthcare...Require people to have health insurance is no different than requiring people to have car insurance...If people have health insurance and use it it will lower the overall cost of health insurance through reducing the amount of aggressive treatments and procedures used to treat people who do not regularly visit the doctor...An uninsured person will always cost us more...Requiring business's to provide coverage to their employees save you money...If they don't you will pick up the tab through increased premiums and taxes...
Posts: 533 | Registered: Oct 2008
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SLOWBACK 67
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Member # 6348
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^ I don't think it's right for my tax dollars to go to guys working under the table ( like the guys that stand out in front of home depot) getting hurt and having to go to the emergency room. They shouldn't be here in America in the first place......
Maybe if I knew that the majority of the people using the health care worked here legit and paid taxes and were not here illegally I wouldn't get so upset. ( his is one of the things that drives up the cost )
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Originally posted by turbo50:
I have no intenions of keeping anyones parts or taking anyones money.
Posts: 8582 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Dec 2005
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rmadison007
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Member # 8670
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^the exact reason why we should have healthcare reform...If everyone is required to have healthcare insurance it will allow legistlation to require insurance for care...If you don't have valid insurance you will not recieve care...
Posts: 533 | Registered: Oct 2008
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N8
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Member # 6048
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quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
^the exact reason why we should have healthcare reform...If everyone is required to have healthcare insurance it will allow legistlation to require insurance for care...If you don't have valid insurance you will not recieve care...
lol...I wasn't gonna say it, but in a way slowback was advocating for the reform but didn't realize it.
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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SLOWBACK 67
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Member # 6348
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
^the exact reason why we should have healthcare reform...If everyone is required to have healthcare insurance it will allow legistlation to require insurance for care...If you don't have valid insurance you will not recieve care...
lol...I wasn't gonna say it, but in a way slowback was advocating for the reform but didn't realize it.
Come on N8
I'm not for it only because the gov will find a way to screw it up... Politicians can't look passed what's good for them and not for everyone.
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Originally posted by turbo50:
I have no intenions of keeping anyones parts or taking anyones money.
Posts: 8582 | From: Vallejo | Registered: Dec 2005
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N8
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Member # 6048
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by slowback67:
quote:
Originally posted by N8:
quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
^the exact reason why we should have healthcare reform...If everyone is required to have healthcare insurance it will allow legistlation to require insurance for care...If you don't have valid insurance you will not recieve care...
lol...I wasn't gonna say it, but in a way slowback was advocating for the reform but didn't realize it.
Come on N8
I'm not for it only because the gov will find a way to screw it up... Politicians can't look passed what's good for them and not for everyone.
yea I agree it is hard to imagine anything working when it comes to politicians controlling it.
Posts: 11638 | Registered: Sep 2005
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JohnB
Tech Moderator
Member # 969
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quote:
Originally posted by rmadison007:
...If you don't have valid insurance you will not recieve care...
You really believe that? If that is the case, and it's the "fix-all" for the problem, remove the ability for Emergency care...it's as simple as that. But it won't happen. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
And as for "if everyone is has health insurance and uses it, it will decrease the overall cost"...if that were true, as you drew a parallel to auto insurance, what happens when you "use" auto insurance...ie, file a claim? Overall costs go up, not down. No one applauds an individual for filing a claim, nor will they thank them for going to see a Doc everytime they have the sniffles.
Treatments, and the type prescribed, will always be in direct corralation to the amount and limits that can be covered by the claim. It happens with insurance now, it will happen if there is a sort of "mandated" insurance. There will always be limits, no matter the type/coverage of insurance. So what will happen is as soon as someone hits their limit, they will wait...until it's an emergency, they go to the ER, and this cycle starts all over.
Unfortunately, the answer for payment and reasoning for reform can't be, "you pay for it already, so why not pay for everyone elses". It doesn't work that way. If it did, reform would have taken place in the early 1900's, when two other presidents proposed it. In typical American fashion, we won't fix the problem (again, people not being responsible for themselves, but expecting the big brother Gov't to do it for them), we'll come up with a program to attempt to band-aid the issue. There are PLENTY of health insurance options out there, it's just that NO ONE wants to pay for them.
Again Reggie, if your point stood true of "the more people, the less cost overall", why not force individuals to obtain healthcare that is currently available? The reason why they won't...simply because people don't want to pay for it, they want something for free, as everyone seems to want lately.
Slowback isn't advocating reform, he's simply stating he's tired of footing the bill for others.
Pipe dreams are nice, but eventually you have to see the light at the end of it.
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1965 Shelby Cobra
1993 Cobra
2012 F150 Raptor
2020 GT500
Posts: 6523 | From: Orlando FL/Redding CA | Registered: Mar 2002
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