This is topic Suspension purchase in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
So I have finally made the decision to finally buy all my suspension for my fast back ,after this things should start moving on this project . I'm leaning towards the Aje colt 45 kit , and rear was thinking Aje rear kit with the adjustable control arms and rear subframes . I'm primarily going to use this car on the street and maybe the occasional track for auto cross And the ocaisinal drag strip . Do you think the Aje kit will suite my needs for my 66fb ? If not what would you recommend ,and why.
Here is a link to the kit I'm referring to
http://www.ajeracing.com/64-70Mustang.php

[ 2013-08-24, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: 50Reasons ]
 

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Posted by SLOWBACK 67 (Member # 6348) on :
 
I think you will be happy wit your purchase. I'd like to buy the front coilover kit that Maier Racing is now offering. I'm going to be running their rear set up as well.

Good luck with the build.
 

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Posted by 70stang351w (Member # 9948) on :
 
Looks good to me wish i went a that route first.
 

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Posted by sinisterblk (Member # 8425) on :
 
For the price the AJE kit is at the top of my list. I also have been looking at the http://streetortrack.com/ stuff.
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
Thanks guys for the input
 

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Posted by 70stang351w (Member # 9948) on :
 
Looks good to me wish i went a that route first.
 

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Posted by MaK_1967v8 (Member # 12187) on :
 
is that k member bolt on? sure looks like it?
 

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Posted by kingdavid (Member # 11179) on :
 
I purchased that kit and sold it before I installed it the lower a arms seemed very undersized and that concerned me other than that it's a good price for what you get just make sure to weld in the k member because its just a bolt in.
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
All k members are bolt in and the car is light so the under sized looking a arms are normal IMO
 

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Posted by 4IDFOX (Member # 9921) on :
 
Since you asked. I do not understand the fascination with these type of " kits" that install a fox platform suspension design in an early car. The only reason Ford put this stuff in the fox platform was because it was cheap. Not because it was engineered or performed well.

You say you are going to autocross and track this thing. I take it then that you want a good handling car. The rack is nice but with the availability a power box makes upgrading the steering easier. The struts are a step backwards as they offer no camber gain on compression. Upper and lower control arm along with strut rods that have good bearings or bushings (no rubber) and low friction ball joints will improve the ride and keep descent geometry. The Shelby mod helps also.

In the rear the triangulated 4link will bind causing snap loose situations. It does work well for drag racing. A panhard or watts link with parellel 4link a 3link or tourque arm is a better choice to make it handle well. The stock design is more predictable than a triangulated 4link.
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 4IDFOX:
Since you asked. I do not understand the fascination with these type of " kits" that install a fox platform suspension design in an early car. The only reason Ford put this stuff in the fox platform was because it was cheap. Not because it was engineered or performed well.

You say you are going to autocross and track this thing. I take it then that you want a good handling car. The rack is nice but with the availability a power box makes upgrading the steering easier. The struts are a step backwards as they offer no camber gain on compression. Upper and lower control arm along with strut rods that have good bearings or bushings (no rubber) and low friction ball joints will improve the ride and keep descent geometry. The Shelby mod helps also.

In the rear the triangulated 4link will bind causing snap loose situations. It does work well for drag racing. A panhard or watts link with parellel 4link a 3link or tourque arm is a better choice to make it handle well. The stock design is more predictable than a triangulated 4link.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 50Reasons:

quote:

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Originally posted by 4IDFOX:
Since you asked. I do not understand the fascination with these type of " kits" that install a fox platform suspension design in an early car. The only reason Ford put this stuff in the fox platform was because it was cheap. Not because it was engineered or performed well.

You say you are going to autocross and track this thing. I take it then that you want a good handling car. The rack is nice but with the availability a power box makes upgrading the steering easier. The struts are a step backwards as they offer no camber gain on compression. Upper and lower control arm along with strut rods that have good bearings or bushings (no rubber) and low friction ball joints will improve the ride and keep descent geometry. The Shelby mod helps also.

In the rear the triangulated 4link will bind causing snap loose situations. It does work well for drag racing. A panhard or watts link with parellel 4link a 3link or tourque arm is a better choice to make it handle well. The stock design is more predictable than a triangulated 4link.

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Also wanted a three link out back but there's not much out there for earlier mustangs and if there is I'm clueless about them , and yea I am asking cause I don't know what's out there that's available for this early mustang I've always owned Foxbodies and that's all I've ever known so nows the time for me to learn on this project .

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check out street or tracks 3 link. shaun is a good dude and knows his stuff! HAS tons of R&D on all his products. www.streetortrack.com
 

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Posted by kingdavid (Member # 11179) on :
 


[ 2013-08-25, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: kingdavid ]
 

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Posted by SLOWSN95 (Member # 8269) on :
 
Ive said it before, Ill say it again.. Maier Racing hands down

http://www.maiermotorsports.com/
 

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Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
go with griggs you won't regret it!
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
Looks like I got some research to do thanks for the advice guys!
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by sneakyfox90:
go with griggs you won't regret it!

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:

quote:

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Originally posted by sneakyfox90:
go with griggs you won't regret it!

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Griggs is still having a lot of bearing failures up front. Cortex would be who I talk to if I were looking at that style suspension.

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:

quote:

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Originally posted by sneakyfox90:
go with griggs you won't regret it!

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Griggs is still having a lot of bearing failures up front. Cortex would be who I talk to if I were looking at that style suspension.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Boss 327:
Sounds like a cool build. I'm going mostly Maier Racing and Cobra Automotive on my 66. I want to keep it old school.

If you cut out the old shock towers, make sure to weld a brace from the cowl to the front of the car. Mike Maier showed me how they do that with the cars at their shop.

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Thanks for the advice, I might just cut them down though not sure yet
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 
I wanted to add, that Jim Meyer racing does offer a kit that looks somewhat promising. It also allows you to adjust ride height without sacrificing ride quality. The kit is $3600 and includes 11" slotted brakes, rack and pin etc. worth looking into.

Gateway mustang kit will allow you to notch your towers.

For high end, cut your towers out stuff, look at:
Cortex
Roadster shop ifs crossmember
Detroit speed and engineering.
Griggs, provided no bearing issues exist
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
And now I got to go over all these choices and pull the trigger
 

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Posted by kingdavid (Member # 11179) on :
 
It really Just comes down to what your plans are for the car and what you are willing to spend. I like that Cortex kit got me rethinking the suspension set up for my 67 now I was going to go with the Street or track suspension, But is it worth the price for the occasional track time it will see.
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 50Reasons:
And now I got to go over all these choices and pull the trigger

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quote:

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Originally posted by kingdavid:
I wonder how the griggs and cortex suspension would do with a mainly street driven car. I wonder if anyone here has the street or track suspension installed on there car.

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I have a friend building a 67 fastback with all Griggs suspension. It's a long ways from being road worthy but looking forward to taking a spin in it when it's done. That bearing issue will be interesting to see how long or if it becomes a problem on his car. I believe he's gonna still go with a boosted Coyote motor too.

V-Town's car is gonna a be real nice when it's done. I'll def be looking forward to seeing that thing in action again.

Daniel. As far as your mini tub..... DSE probably has the best mini tub kit on the market for your car.
http://www.detroitspeed.com/1964-1970-mustang-products/040405-deep-tubs.html

^ I believe he runs a 315 30 18 on a 18x11 wheel on the DSE
car.

^ I hope I can make it out to Pleasanton next time it's out there. Nice car and happy to see Detroit Speed FINALLY showing love to the Ford cars after years of Cheby LS Juan combo Camaros.

[ 2013-08-30, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: SLOWBACK 67 ]
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by SLOWBACK 67:

quote:

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Originally posted by kingdavid:
I wonder how the griggs and cortex suspension would do with a mainly street driven car. I wonder if anyone here has the street or track suspension installed on there car.

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I have a friend building a 67 fastback with all Griggs suspension. It's a long ways from being road worthy but looking forward to taking a spin in it when it's done. That bearing issue will be interesting to see how long or if it becomes a problem on his car. I believe he's gonna still go with a boosted Coyote motor too.

V-Town's car is gonna a be real nice when it's done. I'll def be looking forward to seeing that thing in action again.

Daniel. As far as your mini tub..... DSE probably has the best mini tub kit on the market for your car.
http://www.detroitspeed.com/1964-1970-mustang-products/040405-deep-tubs.html

^ I believe he runs a 315 30 18 on a 18x11 wheel on the DSE
car.

^ I hope I can make it out to Pleasanton next time it's out there. Nice car and happy to see Detroit Speed FINALLY showing love to the Ford cars after years of Cheby LS Juan combo Camaros.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 4IDFOX:
Here is a good read for you.

http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46154&highlight=Vintage+mustang+sla

Hope you can see the pictures. I would suggest spending some time reading at corner-carvers. Join if you can. Not sure if they are taking any new people. Don't ask questions unless you have spent a couple weeks searching for you answer and can't find it. They are a cranky bunch.

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:
50reasons who is going to do all of your work?

If you are doing it, how are your fabrication skills? Welding, cutting, etc?

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Mostly me lol
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 50Reasons:

quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:
50reasons who is going to do all of your work?

If you are doing it, how are your fabrication skills? Welding, cutting, etc?

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Mostly me lol

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My advice would be to really look into the DSE setup. sounds like your car will be mostly street driven and even though the Cortex and Griggs stuff is awesome, I think the stret ride quality would be better going either DSE or roadster shop route.
Roadster shop is a weld in unit so I would lean more towards the Dse out of those two. you have to remember Stacy and kyle drive their cars hundreds of miles to events and commute to and from the DSE office in their vehicles as well.

I think the Griggs and Cortex are great and are well suited for RACE ONLY cars I also think in terms of lap times you will not see much difference in a DSE car vs the others listed above, but at the same time be able to have a great ride quality. Im not here to bash on anyones products, so I want to lay out why I went with DSE. I'll let the OP determine your own decision.

-The kit has been designed to accomadate a 275 front tire while only a loss of 2% of the turning radius. no flaring needed, the 275 will tuck in a factory wheel well just fine.

-Graphs and charts are available to me to show the amount of camber gain, steering angle, etc. these are true blue numbers, not made up shit. if you visit the DSE trailer at an event kyle and stacy will take over an hour showing various R&D videos and how they came up with the figures.

-the kit has been truly engineered, it went through tons of auto cad drawings before even the first prototype was made.they had certain things that were to be achieved and they did not stop till they had what they wanted.

-Speed Align, this is an awesome option for those of us who will track the cars occasionally or need to make adjustments. once you have the front end aligned you can make front end adjustments without the need of expensive camber, caster tools. this also helps cause you can create log sheets of which setting work best at various courses.

-Oem Compatabillity, they designed the kit to use a FORGED vette spindle not some tired out cast sn-95 spindle. the spindle uses an off the shelf hub assembly with a ford pattern, the inner and outer tie rods are off the shelf units same as the ball joints.even better, you bend a tierod at an Auto X event there is a good possibility a Vette guy may have one laying in his trailer.

-The upper and lower control arms are fitted with Del-rin bushings, Del-rin bushings give you ball bearing type handling and smoothness with slight give and offer quiter operation.

-Inverted shocks which = less unsprung weight = better ride.

-installation, pretty easy, only welding that has to be done is a slight tack on the crush sleeves and bump stops which is easy for a DIY'er or really simple for a welding pro to knock out. DSE offers good looking rolled filler panels for the old shock towers. not some flat piece of sheet metal or even worse something you spend tons of money and time on to still just have a flat piece of metal covering the hole! other then that its just cutting and some drilling.

-Attachment, this kit uses 6 attaching points that were factory on the car plus 10 more you drill and use billet steel crush sleeves. total of 16 bolts holding it in the car. this is also really awesome cause cars do wreck out at the track, with bolted parts you may get the advantage of unbolting and replacing something.

-saves weight, you will save about 60 lbs over all the stock stuff which nobody else could assure me of any weight savings.

-quality, everything is tig welded and built in the Usa using american steel, aluminum etc. bearings and off shelf parts are all made in usa prodcts. all the parts are built in house at the DSE facility, where they have a 5 member team who does just QC work.

-everything is packaged into the craddle assembly. This kit was designed the way want it, so there is no using factory mounting or trying to fab some plates to weld to the frame etc. the front spline'd sway bar fits in the craddle and positioned so their is the tire clearance needed etc. the craddle holds everything!!!

-once installed it is just flat out sexy, they thought out everything to the point the sway bar is powder coated flat black and arms are gloss to offer contrast while looking under the car so it doesnt just look like some giant black blob. after spending enormous amounts of money you want the stuff to look good!

-stuff flat out works! bar none you will not see more of any other companies cars in the winner/top 5 circle. Dse has just ventured into the ford market so it will need a little more time to grow, but their GM equipped cars are just killing it at a ton of events through out the nation. Last year after debut of the mustang line, the tuckers were at the mid america shelby meet and kyle was beating fully prepped track cars with R compound tires in the DSE mustang. he was posting lap times 2 seconds faster while on a 200 tread wear tire. after complaints of wider rubber., he put a 245 all the way around and was still posting .5 faster lap time then those race prepped cars.

-2012 phr muscle car of the year showdown, the DSE mustang won while also beating out vipers and porches that showed up for the open track day while muscle car of the year was going on.

I rode in the Dse mustang back in march at goodguys and the car is graceful and it sticks!! Dse uses lower spring rates with bigger sway bars to keep it planted but yet still offer a stellar ride.

One again its IMO, but I researched and researched, ride along after ride along, it seriously took almost two years for me to go for this! make no mistake all said and done front and rear is about $25 once you factor brakes, housing, tubs etc. front alone will be about $12k by the time im done!

sorry for the longest thread ever!
 

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Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
Just curious if you have a good reason why Griggs and cortex would suit RACE ONLY cars? Have you seen any component failures that were on street cars?

Ride alongs won't tell you much between brands if all the cars are running different spring rates, different drivers, different tires.

Griggs uses softer spring rates as well which makes for a more comfortable ride that is forgiving over bumps and the watts links somewhat doubles as a sway bar by adjusting the roll center height

[ 2013-09-01, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 

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Posted by sneakyfox90 (Member # 9379) on :
 
Dp

[ 2013-09-01, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: sneakyfox90 ]
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by sneakyfox90:
Just curious if you have a good reason why Griggs and cortex would suit RACE ONLY cars? Have you seen any component failures that were on street cars?

Ride alongs won't tell you much between brands if all the cars are running different spring rates and tires

Griggs uses softer spring rates as well which makes for a more comfortable ride that is forgiving over bumps and the watts links somewhat doubles as a sway bar by adjusting the roll center height

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:

quote:

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Originally posted by sneakyfox90:
Just curious if you have a good reason why Griggs and cortex would suit RACE ONLY cars? Have you seen any component failures that were on street cars?

Ride alongs won't tell you much between brands if all the cars are running different spring rates and tires

Griggs uses softer spring rates as well which makes for a more comfortable ride that is forgiving over bumps and the watts links somewhat doubles as a sway bar by adjusting the roll center height

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I would say the one difference would be the bearings vs del-rin. which would be the diff between track vs street. Ive ridden in cars with full bearing suspension and some with delrin. del-rin seems slightly more graceful, not as loud but that can vary with insulation on the floor. slightly less vibration.Also using the heim joints for the bump steer kit VS the traditional tie rod adds to more vibration etc. The Dse stuff will simply be more quiet on the road.
Like i said Griggs and Cortex stuff is great! The bearing failures I mentioned were only "Heard" of and you know how that goes.
I have never ridden in a cortex car, closest Ive gotten to their suspension is when I went and checked out max effort while it was in stage one of the build at the track.
The other thing I didnt mention in my above post was that the Griggs car seem to be all on the bump stops where the DSE car seemed to have the more travel.


the fastback I caught a ride along in had Full griggs suspension. both cars I will mentioned were about the same ride height. I know the DSE car had 400lb springs up front and 165or 180's out back.

Just curious as to what you have against DSE? Just seems like the Griggs and Cortex stuff isnt very popular or popular yet? with the old car guys. seems like both companies are the go to for the late model guys.

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:
Im open to debate, just not trying to ruin the thread and get the OP what he needs. if someone can convince me why, id consider getting rid of my DSE kit. I just cant see it happening. Installation alone for the same if not better benifit would be my argument as to why the OP should go DSE.

looks like griggs uses a #650 spring and a #250 out back. thats a huge difference in spring rate vs the DSE
http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4308_4392_4418_4419&products_id=509

Only thing i should warn the op about is DSE hasnt really come up with headers yet for their setup. shorties will fit for sure but as we speak long tubes are being made.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sneakyfox90:

quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:
Im open to debate, just not trying to ruin the thread and get the OP what he needs. if someone can convince me why, id consider getting rid of my DSE kit. I just cant see it happening. Installation alone for the same if not better benifit would be my argument as to why the OP should go DSE.

looks like griggs uses a #650 spring and a #250 out back. thats a huge difference in spring rate vs the DSE
http://www.griggsracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=4332_4308_4392_4418_4419&products_id=509

Only thing i should warn the op about is DSE hasnt really come up with headers yet for their setup. shorties will fit for sure but as we speak long tubes are being made.

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So can the DSE equipped car that's running a 400lb spring out handle or match the performance of the Griggs car with 650lb spring?

and none the less if the DSE kit can offer more travel, that IS something to consider.

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Q:So can the DSE equipped car that's running a 400lb spring out handle or match the performance of the Griggs car with 650lb spring?

A:Depends on sway bar size or sizes and tire sizes.

dse kit offers 6" of travel

There is a ton of variables to consider when we are talking whats better. based on my knowledge and what Ive seen and ridden the Dse kit handles Atleast just as good as the griggs setup.

what sold me on the Dse kit, to sum it up shortly was this:

User friendly-ness!

its easy to install, easy to adjust, wide tires and still easy to drive on the street and price is slightly better then other high end kits.
 

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Posted by 50Reasons (Member # 6452) on :
 
More research indeed needed for this build just wondering if dumping near 25k in suspension parts which do need maintaining worth it for me. And that might be out of my budget as far as that goes ..I have no problem spending more but 25k is a bit high for "me" ..
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 
well.... gotta pay to play. any of the high end stuff is gonna cost. you get lured in by the price of the suspension, then you start looking into the power steering setup, headers, oil pan, brakes( they are ridiculous you gotta figure a good 4 wheel big brake setup will set you back $4k) rear end housing, axles,etc. yeah sure for the DSE kit front and rear its about $10k, but are you going to do that without a mini tub? gonna need a rear end housing to align everything and do the rear install, that rear end housing will need parts.

Dan, im not sure what you already have for your build, and some things will need to be bought no matter what if you dont have it. I just know for me i cant drop all that right now. So im personally going budget in the back for know and will be using the DSE setup up front (since that is where i was having issues previously) but just in doing my DSE front im already $9k or so into the front kit, motor mounts, column, close out panels, intermediate shaft. then brakes will be another $2200 or so up front, power steering will be between $300-$500. then I have to figure wheels $4k+ then tires etc.

if you have a budget, and some parts you are dead set on using you may want to look at that and make your decision.

[ 2013-09-02, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: v-town coupe ]
 

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Posted by v-town coupe (Member # 2771) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 50Reasons:
More research indeed needed for this build just wondering if dumping near 25k in suspension parts which do need maintaining worth it for me. And that might be out of my budget as far as that goes ..I have no problem spending more but 25k is a bit high for "me" ..

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:
what does your front kit fit? or do you just have the stop tech calipers?

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quote:

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Originally posted by v-town coupe:
well if your stuck on running that stuff you may want to look into companies that will allow you to run it.

Personally I dont think you should let the fact you have some brakes laying around determine your purchase. if anything sell them and throw it in the pot.

The fact you want to use brakes that fit sn95 spindles, you may want to look at suspensions that allow you to use that spindle.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sj9ers:
If you want to use sn95 brakes with vintage Mustang spindles look at these guys Vintage Venom They sell brackets that allow sn95 brakes to be used classic Mustang spindles. I plan on using these brackets on my 67 Mustang for cobra brakes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 50Reasons:

quote:

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Originally posted by sj9ers:
If you want to use sn95 brakes with vintage Mustang spindles look at these guys Vintage Venom They sell brackets that allow sn95 brakes to be used classic Mustang spindles. I plan on using these brackets on my 67 Mustang for cobra brakes.

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I will look into that also

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