This is topic eibach in forum Road Racing, Auto X & Drifting at Northern California Ford Owners  .


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://californiafords.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000225

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
are eibach pro kit springs worth the change performance wise? what about the sportline? the thing is i am considering buying them used and am not sure if it is worth it for the corners. and also how much would be a good price to offer the guy? thanks a lot.
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Prokit doesn't drop nearly as much as the Sportlines. Offer him 100 bux, but if you're going for cornering, these wouldn't be the best springs for you.

[ June 29, 2005, 09:38 AM: Message edited by: 03SHKER ]
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
ty, do you know any one selling hr race or super sport springs?
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
We can get them here at the shop.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
used?
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Nope
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 
First, Sportlines are crap for Road Racing. The springs rates are too soft, thats why it lowers your car more. Lower isn't better, especially if you are giving up in firmness of the spring. Personally, I wouldn't waste money using a regular drop spring for any kind of track event. You are better off staying stock until you can afford to do it correctly and go coilover. You loose more then you gain in just a straight drop. Coilovers can be more expensive yes, but being able to get the correct spring rates for the car is so much more important then just dropping it. Problems associated with incorrect or too low of springs rates can be unneeded body roll, poor wieght transfer (this can cause the car to come around on you under breaking), and much more. Alot of shops just want you to buy what they got and don't offer any real reason of why, in my opinion ask people who actually race, but are not sponsored by suspension companies, or performance shops. You will get alot better reasoning in why to use some parts over others.
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:
First, Sportlines are crap for Road Racing. The springs rates are too soft, thats why it lowers your car more. Lower isn't better, especially if you are giving up in firmness of the spring. Personally, I wouldn't waste money using a regular drop spring for any kind of track event. You are better off staying stock until you can afford to do it correctly and go coilover. You loose more then you gain in just a straight drop. Coilovers can be more expensive yes, but being able to get the correct spring rates for the car is so much more important then just dropping it. Problems associated with incorrect or too low of springs rates can be unneeded body roll, poor wieght transfer (this can cause the car to come around on you under breaking), and much more. Alot of shops just want you to buy what they got and don't offer any real reason of why, in my opinion ask people who actually race, but are not sponsored by suspension companies, or performance shops. You will get alot better reasoning in why to use some parts over others.

---

 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
what about hr road race and super spot springs? i heard a lot of good things about them for comp racing and reducing bodyroll.
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
They're decent springs, but Like Jon said, if you really want to race it, there is no substitute for coilovers. And what are your plans on shox/struts? They have just as much of an impact on your ride as the springs. I have Koni yellows & Griggs coilovers on mine, and I'll never do conventional lowering springs again.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
for the future i want to get koni shock/struts not sure when tho. the main thing is, im tired of my ride looking like a damn 4x4 but i want something that will lower it (not slam it to the ground) and will help improve my handling. im not a hard core road racer, but my car is rarely driven(3k a year) so i dont really care about the ride quality. as long as it looks nice and performs just as well.

ooh yeah and on a tight 17yearold budjet. ty
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Yeah, the only thing is when you're on a budget, you're gonna spend $$$ on it now, then more $$$ on it later, so you're not helping your budget. Also, if you lower it, and don't do shox/struts, your car will be lower yes, but it won't perform or ride good. So if you're serious about doing it, just wait it out. You'll be happier & spend less time & money that doing it twice.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
ty, i understand and will probably do that. thanks for your time.
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
No prob.
 

---

Posted by LuvMy04GT (Member # 4791) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
No prob.

---

how much does APEX charge for a coil over set up?
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Depends. Griggs or MM? What shocks/struts? Full coilovers or just fronts with standard springs in the rear? Are we installing it? Give me a call at the shop.
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 
Ok, I'll but in again. Well first thing, The company that makes the kit doesn't really matter that much. It's the spring you get. I would use Hypercoils. They make an awesome spring, that is actually rated at what it says it is. Unlike some other brands. You can find front sleeve kits very cheap. For the rears go with the MM kit. Cost is more the cheap sleeve kits, but There kit is complete. Again the question on H&R's, you spend $200+ for them, why? It doesn't offer any usefulness except lowering the car. Still doesn't allow you to get the correct spring rate for your driving and you car. I understand the 4x4 thing, but the best advice is buy once, buy right.
 

---

Posted by LuvMy04GT (Member # 4791) on :
 
im debating over griggs or mm. any suggestions? would a full coilover be better than just up front? ill probably be getting installed by you guys!
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 
this is a good thread, I want to go coilovers, but want to get only top notch parts before I install
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 
Well the kits MM offer are killer kits especally compared in price vs. griggs. The Griggs coilovers use only a specific type of Koni shock now. So down side is, you have to use there shock. If you want to stay on the more affordable, but still have selections, I would go MM. If you like bilstiens, they make kits for them, if you like tokico's they have kits for them too. my $.02. The old griggs kit used to be like that, but since they said they have gone over to a shock specific style that works only with koni's.
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 
1sicgt, what coilover setup would you suggest for my 2003 mach1? I want to be able to hug corners.
I could look at the kits, but I would just hate to buy something and then not like it, you know?

btw, I'm getting some 18x9 and 18x10 fr500's to get some more style and tire contact with the road.
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 
Well what is your total goal with the car? Open Tracking, drag what? It makes a big difference when it comes to what you choose. If you want a set-up for corners I would go with the MM kit for the front and rear. I would go with 10" Hypercoil springs, 450 or 475 lb. 2.5" dia. front springs, and then 400 or 425 lb. 2.25" dia rear springs. I personally would combo those with either Koni Yellow dual adjustables, Tokico D-Spec adjustables, or Tokico Illumina 5 way adjustables. That way you get the most adjustment options for the dollar. You get a great ride out of the Koni's or the Tokico's. Some may say avoid the Tokico's, but I tell you I have been running on them for some time now, I sure can't complain. The valving seems to be right where you want it on them. Big thing is for corners go no less then 400 and no more then 500 for solid cars. You need the stiffness to reduce brake dive and limit body roll, but you can hit a point where it will take traction away, and start to effect the overall handling of the car, by making it too bouncey. There is a happy medium. Now with drag racing you want very soft front, so that the car essentionally sags on the nose alot. So when you mash the gas, you get alot of weight transfer to the rear of the car. This is great for luanching, after that as long as you go straight your cool. If you add corners to that, then the front tries to compress too fast, and the rearend of the car will try to come around on you faster. This is why at the drag strip, when you see a car get squirley, then they jump off the gas fast, the rearend tries to walk around on them. Think of it like driving a fork lift, where steering is in the rear, small moves ok, big change, the thing turns very quickly.
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 
I guess i should have put what I had in mind in my last posting.
I'm looking to be a "weekend auto crossing" type car.
I see that they have konis and bilsteins there in parts and complete kits. I like the sound of adjustables too
what are your thoughts on an IRS swap?
thanks man!

[ July 04, 2005, 20:11: Message edited by: 94gt ]
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 
Don't do the IRS swap. The IRS theory is great, just a shame ford didn't have someone good design it. IRS should gain negative camber as it compresses to allow the tire to keep full contact with the pavement, but ford's does not. So as it compresses more, you start loosing traction. Plus the weight of the IRS is unreal. It is way heavier than the Solid. I would stick with doing a good panhard torque arm set-up for your purpose. Yes the Watts link design is superior to a panhard, but cost vs. what your plans are, just go with Panhard. Now you might wanna look into getting the coilover kit with out shock and struts from them. You can buy just the coilovers kits from MM. For what your plans are, go with the more cost effective tokicos. If you were into more competition all the time, I'd say pay the extra buck for the koni full kit, butt seeing you plan on doing auto-x and here and there events this would be a good set-up. Also do you plan on driving the car on the street alot, or just weekends, and events? If doing little street driving look into some dot track tires, Maybe a Nitto 555R II or a Toyo RA-1. That way you can have some extra grip for these events. I know I haven't said anything on bilsteins, thats becuase, I found, its best to get something adjustable, so you can tune the ride to "your" driving style. Where as the bilsteins are preset valving. So it could be an expensive hit or miss on the feel if you like them or not. At least with the others I listed, you can tune the bound and rebound to how you drive, and how you want your car to handle. I talked with Tokico at SEMA last year about the new D-Spec line of struts and shocks, I'll I can tell you is that they are probably more adjustable than the Koni Yellow DA's. They are 10x more adjustable the the old Tokico Illumina's. It's a much better built peice then people give them credit for.

[ July 05, 2005, 09:27: Message edited by: 1Sicgt ]
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
im looking for some good auto x tires, that will also be used on the street a little. what is better for the price 275 ps2's or 295 nitto nt555r 2's. they're the same price, but i dont know which one would be best, im trying to keep in just under 300 per tire. or is there anything better?
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Front Coil-Over Hardware Kit for Koni Struts FCO 2000 works with most common brands
Front Coil-Over Hardware Kit for Bilstein Struts Mustang FCO 2000 B
Griggs offers a setup for Koni/Tokico or Bilsteins. You can also use the Maximum coilover kit with the Griggs setup. I personally have the Griggs coilover kit, Koni yellows, Hypercoil 350 springs & Maximum C/C plates on mine. I won't change it.

[ July 05, 2005, 16:37: Message edited by: 03SHKER ]
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
They're decent springs, but Like Jon said, if you really want to race it, there is no substitute for coilovers. And what are your plans on shox/struts? They have just as much of an impact on your ride as the springs. I have Koni yellows & Griggs coilovers on mine, and I'll never do conventional lowering springs again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9cobra9:
im looking for some good auto x tires, that will also be used on the street a little. what is better for the price 275 ps2's or 295 nitto nt555r 2's. they're the same price, but i dont know which one would be best, im trying to keep in just under 300 per tire. or is there anything better?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
Front Coil-Over Hardware Kit for Koni Struts FCO 2000 works with most common brands
Front Coil-Over Hardware Kit for Bilstein Struts Mustang FCO 2000 B
Griggs offers a setup for Koni/Tokico or Bilsteins. You can also use the Maximum coilover kit with the Griggs setup. I personally have the Griggs coilover kit, Koni yellows, Hypercoil 350 springs & Maximum C/C plates on mine. I won't change it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:
Don't do the IRS swap. The IRS theory is great, just a shame ford didn't have someone good design it. IRS should gain negative camber as it compresses to allow the tire to keep full contact with the pavement, but ford's does not. So as it compresses more, you start loosing traction. Plus the weight of the IRS is unreal. It is way heavier than the Solid. I would stick with doing a good panhard torque arm set-up for your purpose. Yes the Watts link design is superior to a panhard, but cost vs. what your plans are, just go with Panhard. Now you might wanna look into getting the coilover kit with out shock and struts from them. You can buy just the coilovers kits from MM. For what your plans are, go with the more cost effective tokicos. If you were into more competition all the time, I'd say pay the extra buck for the koni full kit, butt seeing you plan on doing auto-x and here and there events this would be a good set-up. Also do you plan on driving the car on the street alot, or just weekends, and events? If doing little street driving look into some dot track tires, Maybe a Nitto 555R II or a Toyo RA-1. That way you can have some extra grip for these events. I know I haven't said anything on bilsteins, thats becuase, I found, its best to get something adjustable, so you can tune the ride to "your" driving style. Where as the bilsteins are preset valving. So it could be an expensive hit or miss on the feel if you like them or not. At least with the others I listed, you can tune the bound and rebound to how you drive, and how you want your car to handle. I talked with Tokico at SEMA last year about the new D-Spec line of struts and shocks, I'll I can tell you is that they are probably more adjustable than the Koni Yellow DA's. They are 10x more adjustable the the old Tokico Illumina's. It's a much better built peice then people give them credit for.

---

I Really appreciate your advice man

I was actually looking at the new Tokico's with a coilover suspension in mind. But from what ive heard the Koni's just rock as far as performance and reliablility are concerned.

I pretty much drive my mach alot, daily infact... thats why I liked the idea of the adjustable setup... if its too stiff, i could soften it up easily. big bonus... but if I could get a bit more traction, I would gladly sacrafice ride comfort for that.

I was actually looking into the Toyo tires, so its funny you suggested them! what sized would you reccomend on an 18x9 front and 18x10 rear rim sizes?

Thanks again
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9cobra9:
im looking for some good auto x tires, that will also be used on the street a little. what is better for the price 275 ps2's or 295 nitto nt555r 2's. they're the same price, but i dont know which one would be best, im trying to keep in just under 300 per tire. or is there anything better?

---

Personal experience talking here. I'll tell you to run the Nitto's. I have them. Been doing lots of events on them. So far have 9 weekends of HARD track abuse on them, still have tread and still sticky. If anyone questions if I am pushing them hard I was at Reno-Fernely last on them, I was doing 1:30 laps in my car. Thats pretty much full race pace there. And I am only pushing 215-220rwhp. Not too shabby.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 98M3Pride:
I have and they rule all. I wish they lasted longer though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
Front Coil-Over Hardware Kit for Koni Struts FCO 2000 works with most common brands
Front Coil-Over Hardware Kit for Bilstein Struts Mustang FCO 2000 B
Griggs offers a setup for Koni/Tokico or Bilsteins. You can also use the Maximum coilover kit with the Griggs setup. I personally have the Griggs coilover kit, Koni yellows, Hypercoil 350 springs & Maximum C/C plates on mine. I won't change it.

---

That is really soft chris. On my car we run 450 front, and equivlant of 400 rear. On the 03 cobra run 550 front and 650 rear (IRS). I think I have another set of 400 or 425, you should try them. I bet you can shave a bit of time off your laps. What tires are you on?

---

Jon, I'm a loser. Haha. I've only had them on for about 2 months, and haven't been to the track yet. Aug 13-14th will be the first time I get to test it all. I'm actually really happy with the setup. I had been in a car with 450's and it was to stiff for a daily driver. I'm sure it woulda rocked on the track, but I'm no where near the level you're at, and I'm not gonna try and act like I am.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
if im not worried about tuning them from soft to stiff, would my stock blitstiens be ok with the mm converstion up front? ty
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
ooh, and would stock springs be ok. or would that defy the purpose of getting a coilover kit
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Yeah, they should work just fine. But you have to have them sent to Maximum to be grooved, for the coils to fit over them.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
Yeah, they should work just fine. But you have to have them sent to Maximum to be grooved, for the coils to fit over them.

---

aah, but that would prolly cost some $$$ so would i be better off just getting koni
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
Koni's are the sh*t. Bilstiens are nice to, but no adjustability. I don't think it's that much to groove them, it's just down time on your car.

[ July 06, 2005, 14:09: Message edited by: 03SHKER ]
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
maximum does it for free

marek
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
what track you runnin on Aug 12-14 chris?

i plannin on runnin at thunderhill on November 19-20 (sat-sun)

marek

[ July 06, 2005, 14:13: Message edited by: Mach0ne351 ]
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
*hopefully* Willow Springs
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
what do u mean "hopefully"......
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 
I dunno if I'm going for sure or not... So hopefully.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
sory guys, but i have a few more questions. first i notice that my car has pretty bad oversteer. i need to correct that. now, is the stock swaybar adjustable? and if i get the front coilovers only would that lessen the understeer? ty. my biggest issues now are body roll and understeer.
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
get the maximum motorsports front bumpsteer and rear IRS bumpsteer kits. good stuff....

chris...
who is puttin on the event?

marek
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:
Don't do the IRS swap. The IRS theory is great, just a shame ford didn't have someone good design it. IRS should gain negative camber as it compresses to allow the tire to keep full contact with the pavement, but ford's does not. So as it compresses more, you start loosing traction. Plus the weight of the IRS is unreal. It is way heavier than the Solid. I would stick with doing a good panhard torque arm set-up for your purpose. Yes the Watts link design is superior to a panhard, but cost vs. what your plans are, just go with Panhard. Now you might wanna look into getting the coilover kit with out shock and struts from them. You can buy just the coilovers kits from MM. For what your plans are, go with the more cost effective tokicos. If you were into more competition all the time, I'd say pay the extra buck for the koni full kit, butt seeing you plan on doing auto-x and here and there events this would be a good set-up. Also do you plan on driving the car on the street alot, or just weekends, and events? If doing little street driving look into some dot track tires, Maybe a Nitto 555R II or a Toyo RA-1. That way you can have some extra grip for these events. I know I haven't said anything on bilsteins, thats becuase, I found, its best to get something adjustable, so you can tune the ride to "your" driving style. Where as the bilsteins are preset valving. So it could be an expensive hit or miss on the feel if you like them or not. At least with the others I listed, you can tune the bound and rebound to how you drive, and how you want your car to handle. I talked with Tokico at SEMA last year about the new D-Spec line of struts and shocks, I'll I can tell you is that they are probably more adjustable than the Koni Yellow DA's. They are 10x more adjustable the the old Tokico Illumina's. It's a much better built peice then people give them credit for.

---

I Really appreciate your advice man

I was actually looking at the new Tokico's with a coilover suspension in mind. But from what ive heard the Koni's just rock as far as performance and reliablility are concerned.

I pretty much drive my mach alot, daily infact... thats why I liked the idea of the adjustable setup... if its too stiff, i could soften it up easily. big bonus... but if I could get a bit more traction, I would gladly sacrafice ride comfort for that.

I was actually looking into the Toyo tires, so its funny you suggested them! what sized would you reccomend on an 18x9 front and 18x10 rear rim sizes?

Thanks again

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9cobra9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9cobra9:
im looking for some good auto x tires, that will also be used on the street a little. what is better for the price 275 ps2's or 295 nitto nt555r 2's. they're the same price, but i dont know which one would be best, im trying to keep in just under 300 per tire. or is there anything better?

---

Personal experience talking here. I'll tell you to run the Nitto's. I have them. Been doing lots of events on them. So far have 9 weekends of HARD track abuse on them, still have tread and still sticky. If anyone questions if I am pushing them hard I was at Reno-Fernely last on them, I was doing 1:30 laps in my car. Thats pretty much full race pace there. And I am only pushing 215-220rwhp. Not too shabby.

---

so, i take it that they are a lot better than the nt555's bc i am really disappointed in them. have u tried the ps2's by any chance?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
get the maximum motorsports front bumpsteer and rear IRS bumpsteer kits. good stuff....

chris...
who is puttin on the event?

marek

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
get the maximum motorsports front bumpsteer and rear IRS bumpsteer kits. good stuff....

chris...
who is puttin on the event?

marek

---

Well that really won't help the oversteer he is getting. Right now what is happening is the car probably tries to drive to much as he goes into corners, then the rear tries to drive itself around. Am I correct?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 98M3Pride:
No ur car has bad oversteer. Where ur tail whips out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
I've got 555's on my car, and love 'em too.

---

whats up. i was at apex yesterday with my buddy, the one that was asking Mario about the apprenticeship. was that you white mach1 out back? if it was that ish was badass !
 

---

Posted by 1Sicgt (Member # 714) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
ya your correct, but when hes driving on the streets, he'll have bumpsteer, like the rest of us, when he hits a bump or something haha....

marek

---

You should drive my car then. No bumpsteer problem, and I don't have a bumpsteer kit on my car. (Of course my front end is 3/4" forward offset.)
 

---

Posted by 98M3Pride (Member # 5798) on :
 
Ur opentrackstangs.com site doesnt work. Maybe its just me.
 

---

Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
nope it doesnt work
 

---

Posted by 98M3Pride (Member # 5798) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9cobra9:
nope it doesnt work

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LuvMy04GT:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
I've got 555's on my car, and love 'em too.

---

whats up. i was at apex yesterday with my buddy, the one that was asking Mario about the apprenticeship. was that you white mach1 out back? if it was that ish was badass !

---

Yeah that's me. Thanks man.
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1Sicgt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
ya your correct, but when hes driving on the streets, he'll have bumpsteer, like the rest of us, when he hits a bump or something haha....

marek

---

You should drive my car then. No bumpsteer problem, and I don't have a bumpsteer kit on my car. (Of course my front end is 3/4" forward offset.)

---