This is topic *331 build help & HP/TQ estimate * in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
So today I'm picking up a Fresh 302 block that has been Line honed, bored, hot tanked, new brass freeze plugs installed, new cam bearings installed and is ready to go. I'm also getting a SCAT 331 crank with a 3.25 stroke. I need help with piston and Connecting rod selection. I want to run 10:1 compression. Links or part numbers would really help. I hoping to have around 300HP & TQ to the wheels and is very dependable. I will be running a CRANE 2031 cam with GT40 heads w 1.7 rockers and stock Cobra intake. I know the heads will be holding it back a so I plan on changing the heads over the winter. I do plan on getting it tuned right away. Also what parts can I reuse from my 302?

Thanks

[ May 05, 2011, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: SnakeBit ]
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
put a 347 in it
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
Thanks for your opinion but that doesn't help me at all.

[ April 27, 2011, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: SnakeBit ]
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:
Thanks for your opinion but that doesn't help me at all.
Sure it helps you. If you dont already have the rotating assembly then it is a no brainer.

Its not an opinion I speak from experience having built about 50 of these small blocks.

Also remember 302 parts belong on a 302.

Im glad you plan on switching to some real heads down the road, you will need them to make the power you want.

I have built TONs of smog legal 302s that make over 300hp at the wheels.

Mike Ds car (306) with a baby crane poo cam like the one you insist on running, 9.8:1 306, old eddy intake, out of the box TFS heads.... made that at the wheels.

CSTANG50 went 114mph on motor with a smog legal setup with edelbrock performers (1.90/1.60).....302 cubes.


If its a 50 oz motor you can use your balancer and flywheel..you can use every other part off your 302 on it.
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:
Thanks for your opinion but that doesn't help me at all.
Sure it helps you. If you dont already have the rotating assembly then it is a no brainer.

Its not an opinion I speak from experience having built about 50 of these small blocks.

Also remember 302 parts belong on a 302.

Im glad you plan on switching to some real heads down the road, you will need them to make the power you want.

I have built TONs of smog legal 302s that make over 300hp at the wheels.

Mike Ds car (306) with a baby crane poo cam like the one you insist on running, 9.8:1 306, old eddy intake, out of the box TFS heads.... made that at the wheels.

CSTANG50 went 114mph on motor with a smog legal setup with edelbrock performers (1.90/1.60).....302 cubes.


If its a 50 oz motor you can use your balancer and flywheel..you can use every other part off your 302 on it.
There we go, so I can reuse my Rods/cam/timing set? All parts only have 500 miles on them. I'm getting the block and crank today for a pretty good deal so I'm not looking to do the 347. I know that this crank needs a 28oz blancer & flywheel. I'm just not sure about matching up the pistons and connecting rods, and I don't want to guess. I forgot to mention that the block is 30 over. I'm definitely not building for drag racing its for the road courses if that even matters.

this is the crank.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-93022/

[ April 27, 2011, 12:00 PM: Message edited by: SnakeBit ]
 
Posted by SF Coupe (Member # 1810) on :
 
Here's a suggestion, don't let the person who built your last motor build this one.
 
Posted by SydeWaySix (Member # 3596) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SF Coupe:
Here's a suggestion, don't let the person who built your last motor build this one.
OUCH [Big Grin] Good luck with the build Jay...let me knwo when you start tearing into it. I'll come by and lend a hand, or bring some beers over and watch [Razz] [patriot]
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SF Coupe:
Here's a suggestion, don't let the person who built your last motor build this one.
wow thanks for your "pearls of wisdom". But if you knew the story you would know that the motor overheated due to thermostat failure and did not catch it in time. A $8 part is going to cost me 3K, I built the motor and it put down 285 torque to the wheels with a stock 302. I know that's not worth bragging about but the motor was solid & running perfect. What you should say is "don't let your dad drive it". LOL

Can somebody actually answer my questions or can I expect a bunch of useless information?

Please if anybody else has useless info please keep it to yourself. I need answers.

Thanks

[ April 27, 2011, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: SnakeBit ]
 
Posted by wilit (Member # 3367) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:

Can somebody actually answer my questions or can I expect a bunch of useless information?

Please if anybody else has useless info please keep it to yourself. I need answers.

Thanks
You need to supply some more info if you want useful answers.

To figure out what pistons you need for your 10:1 goal, what's the combustion chamber size of the GT40's you have? GT40's came in two sizes, 60cc and 64cc. Once you figure that out, you'd probably want to call SCAT and see what they recommend.

As for reusing parts, stroker cranks are generally 28oz imbalance. You'll need a new flywheel and balancer. Otherwise most everything else will swap over.
 
Posted by SF Coupe (Member # 1810) on :
 
Was the bottom end stock, or did you work on it? What was the cause of the knocking sound? Sorry for being harsh but I've seen a lot of guys at the track have motor issues because they built it themselves or had their buddy do it. I leave my motor work to the pros.

If you are going to get serious about open tracking get some autometer guages, water temp, oil temp, and oil psi at a minimum. Get a larger aluminum radiator and get an oil cooler. You would be shocked to see the oil temps you hit on the track without a cooler. 300 degrees is pretty easy to hit after a few laps. Here's a link for a good oil cooler kit, mine never gets above 240 degrees.

http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:

Can somebody actually answer my questions or can I expect a bunch of useless information?

Please if anybody else has useless info please keep it to yourself. I need answers.

Thanks
You need to supply some more info if you want useful answers.

To figure out what pistons you need for your 10:1 goal, what's the combustion chamber size of the GT40's you have? GT40's came in two sizes, 60cc and 64cc. Once you figure that out, you'd probably want to call SCAT and see what they recommend.

As for reusing parts, stroker cranks are generally 28oz imbalance. You'll need a new flywheel and balancer. Otherwise most everything else will swap over.
I have the Stock GT40's that came on my 95 Cobra. So I believe that they are 64cc. Does anybody know for sure.
 
Posted by wilit (Member # 3367) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:

Can somebody actually answer my questions or can I expect a bunch of useless information?

Please if anybody else has useless info please keep it to yourself. I need answers.

Thanks
You need to supply some more info if you want useful answers.

To figure out what pistons you need for your 10:1 goal, what's the combustion chamber size of the GT40's you have? GT40's came in two sizes, 60cc and 64cc. Once you figure that out, you'd probably want to call SCAT and see what they recommend.

As for reusing parts, stroker cranks are generally 28oz imbalance. You'll need a new flywheel and balancer. Otherwise most everything else will swap over.
I have the Stock GT40's that came on my 95 Cobra. So I believe that they are 64cc. Does anybody know for sure.
Oh yeah, I remember your thread about the cooked engine at the track. If you're reusing those heads, you better get them checked out to make sure they didn't warp.
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:

Can somebody actually answer my questions or can I expect a bunch of useless information?

Please if anybody else has useless info please keep it to yourself. I need answers.

Thanks
You need to supply some more info if you want useful answers.

To figure out what pistons you need for your 10:1 goal, what's the combustion chamber size of the GT40's you have? GT40's came in two sizes, 60cc and 64cc. Once you figure that out, you'd probably want to call SCAT and see what they recommend.

As for reusing parts, stroker cranks are generally 28oz imbalance. You'll need a new flywheel and balancer. Otherwise most everything else will swap over.
I have the Stock GT40's that came on my 95 Cobra. So I believe that they are 64cc. Does anybody know for sure.
Oh yeah, I remember your thread about the cooked engine at the track. If you're reusing those heads, you better get them checked out to make sure they didn't warp.
Oh yeah that's 1st thing. I'm taking the heads off sometime this week. Good advise on calling SCAT, they were cool. this is what they said to go with.

Rods
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25400927/

Pistons
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-IC720-030/
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:
quote:
Originally posted by SF Coupe:
Here's a suggestion, don't let the person who built your last motor build this one.
wow thanks for your "pearls of wisdom". But if you knew the story you would know that the motor overheated due to thermostat failure and did not catch it in time. A $8 part is going to cost me 3K, I built the motor and it put down 285 torque to the wheels with a stock 302. I know that's not worth bragging about but the motor was solid & running perfect. What you should say is "don't let your dad drive it". LOL

Can somebody actually answer my questions or can I expect a bunch of useless information?

Please if anybody else has useless info please keep it to yourself. I need answers.

Thanks
Thats with a GT40 headed motor, nothin to brag about, glad you werent.

You are goin to need to get it balanced if you are changing the rods and pistons, that is additional cost and I speak from experience that crankshaft needs some extra metal to get it right...

Your crank is 28 oz no biggie just get the appropriate dampner and flywheel they are cheap enough, even quality ones if you have a quality aftermarket one already it may have a removeable weight that can be replaced from 50 oz to 28 and even removed for neutral balance.

I just want to reiterate that I hope you are getting that crankshaft for 50% off because you are building a motor around your crankshaft, it seems.

There are quality kits that already come balanced within a gram and are about the same price, for a 347, at which time you can choose your compression with piston choice rather than it bein chosen for you.

Your heads are advertised at 64cc but you can easily cc them yourself or have it done.

If this is useless information then let me know and Ill keep to myself, again I build budget motors all the time and make the power you are wanting with 302 cubes.

I also stand corrected, MikeDs motor made 299 at the wheels and 341 torque. That is with a smog legal tiny camshaft, nothing to brag about I agree but I dont see as how it is useless information as it is right at your goal.....
 
Posted by anderthizzle (Member # 7910) on :
 
turbo50 [worship] knows what he is talking about.his motors are the best [burnout]
 
Posted by wilit (Member # 3367) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

You are goin to need to get it balanced if you are changing the rods and pistons, that is additional cost and I speak from experience that crankshaft needs some extra metal to get it right...
+1 I'm having a 302 built and was talking to Tim at Morgan's Machine about maybe doing a stroker. He said you wouldn't believe how far out of balance SCAT and Eagle cranks are. After spending a couple hours talking to him, I'm glad I'm sticking with the 302.
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

You are goin to need to get it balanced if you are changing the rods and pistons, that is additional cost and I speak from experience that crankshaft needs some extra metal to get it right...
+1 I'm having a 302 built and was talking to Tim at Morgan's Machine about maybe doing a stroker. He said you wouldn't believe how far out of balance SCAT and Eagle cranks are. After spending a couple hours talking to him, I'm glad I'm sticking with the 302.
Yes but you can buy them balanced from coast/probe and when Daves checked the balance it was spot on.

They offer the balancing for free when you purchase the stroker kit on most of their kits.

Dan
 
Posted by MauriSSio (Member # 9943) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

You are goin to need to get it balanced if you are changing the rods and pistons, that is additional cost and I speak from experience that crankshaft needs some extra metal to get it right...
+1 I'm having a 302 built and was talking to Tim at Morgan's Machine about maybe doing a stroker. He said you wouldn't believe how far out of balance SCAT and Eagle cranks are. After spending a couple hours talking to him, I'm glad I'm sticking with the 302.
from what ive heard balanced scat stroker kits are usually spot on with their clearances. Eagle cranks usually need work
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MauriSSio:
quote:
Originally posted by wilit:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

You are goin to need to get it balanced if you are changing the rods and pistons, that is additional cost and I speak from experience that crankshaft needs some extra metal to get it right...
+1 I'm having a 302 built and was talking to Tim at Morgan's Machine about maybe doing a stroker. He said you wouldn't believe how far out of balance SCAT and Eagle cranks are. After spending a couple hours talking to him, I'm glad I'm sticking with the 302.
from what ive heard balanced scat stroker kits are usually spot on with their clearances. Eagle cranks usually need work
Im gonna plus one this.
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
Ok so a little update on this project. I did end up buying the 306 block and crank from "CobraCoupe" for a great price, thanks again bro!

crank
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-93022/

The following parts are on the way from Summit

Rods:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25400927/

Balancer:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-D-80006/

Fuel pressure reg:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13102/

Flywheel:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ZZZ-70-3104/

The only thing left to buy besides fluids and gaskets is Pistons. I was planning on ordering these but they said it will take 3 weeks just to ship.
Keith Black Pistons
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/UEM-KB355-030/

Do you guys have any other suggestions for pistons?

What about these?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PBP-P3311F-030/Application/?prefilter=1

I also decided to ditch the GT40's and pick up some Edelbrock Performers.
I will be using a Crane cam 2031 with Crane 1.7 stud mounted rockers. I also plan on getting a tune right after motor is complete. Anybody care to give a HP & TQ estimate?


Thanks

[ May 05, 2011, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: SnakeBit ]
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
Dont forget to have it balanced.......
 
Posted by SnakeBit (Member # 8871) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
Dont forget to have it balanced.......
definitely. What all do I need to bring them and about how much does it cost?

Thanks
 
Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SnakeBit:
quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:
Dont forget to have it balanced.......
definitely. What all do I need to bring them and about how much does it cost?

Thanks
crank, rods, pistons, pins, ring pack,balancer and flywheel or flexplate some folks even bring the clutch and pressure plate but I never do since those are wear items I dont see the point.

Cost range from 200 on up
 




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