Cams hurting power? - Northern California Ford Owners

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Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

not sure if that's really possible, but i was wondering about using stage 3 cams on a stage 1 build motor...

any input?

specifically, i have the same cams that John Mihovetz uses in this car

inside my DOHC motor...

overkill?
surely.
will it hurt?
????

[ November 12, 2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: Elapid ]

Posted by shade- (Member # 298) on :

I'm sure the same cam for a 1800 HP motor can be used in your street car, why not it probably has the same airflow requirements right? [Razz]

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

it seems to run ok...
got anything specific?

i actually put in the cams looking toward the future. the motor can handle a lot more power than i'm putting to it at the moment, and i do plan on pumping up the volume a bit, but want to wait until i get a few more mods. as it is, the car needs a cage, etc. to be track-legal so putting any more power in doesn't make any sense, really...

[ November 12, 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: Elapid ]

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

[ November 12, 2003, 01:19 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

[Big Grin]

[ November 12, 2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

well, i wouldn't think about it in terms of comparing my output to john's really...

i would think about it in terms of stock cams-vs- SHM blower cams (reground stock sticks)

actually john prolly uses billet cams now not these sticks, but he used to use these and was putting down similar numbers.

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

[ November 12, 2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

i'm just giving you a hard time bro, i hope your car hauls ASS!!!!

-Evan [patriot]

definately post the outcome, if you get your car dynoed or whatever. [patriot]

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

here are the specs:

Left Intake
Cam Timing .050
Opens 10 ATDC
Closes 39 ABDC
Centerline 114.5
Duration 209

Valve lift .472

Left Exhaust
Cam Timing .050
Opens 40 BBDC
Closes 5 ATDC
Centerline 107.5
Duration 225

Valve lift .452

Right Intake
Cam Timing .050
Opens 10 ATDC
Closes 39 ABDC
Centerline 114.5
Duration 209

Valve lift .472

Right Exhaust
Cam Timing .050
Opens 40 BBDC
Closes 5 ATDC
Centerline 107.5
Duration 225

Valve lift .452

i'm running 14 psi of boost, not 30 psi, but boost is boost, right?

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

SHIIIIIIT ALL THESE DOUBLE POST, SORRY

damn thats it, i thought the cams would be alot bigger, but hey man thats fucken sweet. i'd like to hear that. i figure your car should make some good power, but what do i know. [Razz]

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

i have been running these cams for several thousand miles now. i really love the feeling when it gets into the power band!
I'm running the (Mihovetz) Accufab (large throat, single-blade) Throttlebody that i can stick my whole hand in [Eek!]

which is really made for a much more powerful motor.

here's a pic of the motor when they pulled it to fix an exhaust leak [Eek!]

specs:

SHM 575 shortblock including
manley forged rods
forged pistons
arp studs everywhere including heads
SHM Blower cams
Canton racing pan w/windage
Ported heads (just some pocket work)
stock intake
Accufab Throttlebody
JBA Cat4Ward headers

still needs:
main girdle
billet oil pump gears
aluminum flywheel
sfi spec balancer (on my floor)
short-runner intake
IMRC deletes (on the shelf in the garage)

[ November 12, 2003, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: Elapid ]

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

DAMN [Eek!]

sweet, how much power are you trying to make?

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

it put up SAE 450HP/380TQ at the wheels last November and ran 11.84 @ 122.4 in the summer heat
i plan to up the ante to 600+ rwhp once i get a tranny that can take the abuse, etc.

[ November 12, 2003, 01:40 PM: Message edited by: Elapid ]

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

NICE!

Posted by Glenn (Member # 520) on :

I was told by a motor builder that too big of a cam can hurt power. That is why I am swapping mine out. I'll let you know how it goes when the install is done, if it helped to go with a smaller cam.

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

smaller in what way?
i think lift is pretty limited on these beasties due to tight clearances, do you mean shorter duration or less overlap?

anyone know what stock lift is?

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

so, shade-

you seem to know a lot.
what part of my cam profile is hurting my power?

lift?
duration?
overlap?
something else?

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

anyone have a real clue or am i only entitled to sarcasm?

Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :

Just looking at the specs it's REALLY exhaust biased. 16 degrees difference at .050. Boosted or not I don't think YOU need anywhere near that much. The guy that's running them with 30 psi is not only running more boost but I'm sure his compressor is much bigger. Would you happen to know the specs of the stock cams? I'd think something in the single pattern to very slight exhaust bias would work well for a typical boosted 4v Cobra.

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

so how about installing the exhaust cams slightly advanced (?) to compensate?
i don't have stock cam specs.
i looked on the web a bit, but didn't find anything.
thanks for the reply, aaron!

Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :

Advancing it would compound the problem. I think it has too much exhaust. But that's speculation on my part. Try to find out what the stock specs are so you can compare them. Then compare outputs of your car vs. a Cobra with similar mods. Go from there...

IMO I guess you have a few options. 1) Either change the exhaust cams for ones that match the intake a little better or vise versa. 2)Put stock ones back in. 3) Buy new ones. 4) Or up the boost. 5) say fuck it, it makes plenty of power as is and leave it alone

[ November 14, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: AaronC ]

Posted by shade- (Member # 298) on :

(1) vote for trying the stock cam. Have you ever done that with your current setup?

I don't think I should comment on duration since I don't follow 4cam modulars though other than to say "hey thats neat" [patriot]

Posted by shade- (Member # 298) on :

or perhaps you could just reinstall your stock exhaust cam(s) or whichever stock cam has the most duration in the exhaust cam(s) location

(hope that makes sense)

[ November 14, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: shade- ]

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

i took a look at the SHM cam page, http://www.seanhylandmotorsport.com/mustang_svt_cobra_pg1_2_1.shtml
it's not far off their stage 2 camset but the blower cams have the same lift as the stage 1. exhaust duration is the same for the blower cam and the stage 2 n/a cam.

i'm not really planning on doing anything, i'm just trying to gain a better understanding of my setup.
i'm planning on a 75-shot of juice once i get everything in order.

[ November 14, 2003, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Elapid ]

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :

You're running stock exhaust manifolds right?
So...the added exhaust isn't hurting you that much.

Stock cams are tiny.

I say leave it alone...or perhaps install longtubes, but new cams is not worth the $$$. (4 billet cams at $300-$400 each!)

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

only the intake is stock
and some of the pullies...

it has JBA Cat4Ward Firecone shorty headers
that's a mouthfull!
i have to be able to get this through smog, so longtubes are out.

Posted by 7.3L White Whale (Member # 1848) on :

How are you gunna smog it with such huge cams with bigger than stock amounts of overlap. Can't the comp cams stage 1s not pass and those dont compare to yours

Posted by season'd 88 (Member # 169) on :

Heres a few to consider http://www.compcams.com/Technical/Catalogs/NP2003/Page-4.pdf

Posted by Elapid (Member # 50) on :

thanks, seasoned88!
will 2 sets of 2v cams work in my 4v?
[Wink]

i have a DOHC, i don't see anything but SOHC cams listed on that sheet.

i don't know how i'll pass smog, i might have to move to a different county or state.

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