Further proof that hybrids suck. - Northern California Ford Owners

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Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

This article is a perfect example of why current hybrid technology just doesn't stack up.

http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/03/bmw_beats_prius_in_mpgs.php

Posted by Camaro Kid Z/28 (Member # 3100) on :

too bad diesel fuel costs more!? [Confused]

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Camaro Kid Z/28:
too bad diesel fuel costs more!?

A bit, but not the point of the article. I thought that it was interesting that a mid size four door sedan was capable of getting better mileage with more performance, more comfort, more room. I just don't think that the hybrid technology (in it's current state) is all it's cracked up to be.

Posted by Adam5.0 (Member # 6995) on :

by there design hybrids dont get as good gas mileage on the freeway. they are more effective for city driving. when they are on the freeway thats when the gas motors tend to turn on because they arent getting any energy from braking. might not be a 100% fair experiment. i am not hybrid fan either as a prius is more harmful to the environment than a hummer over the life of the vehicle

Posted by iron281 (Member # 80) on :

Some friends of ours went a couple of different directions. One couple went with a Prius almost 2 years ago, and paid over $28,000 for it.

The other couple went and found 2 used cars out of state (the Nazi CARB has deemed these cars to be polluters, so one MUST buy them used)–a 2006 Volkswagen Jetta Turbo Diesel, and the wife bought a 2006 Volkswagen Turbo Diesel Beetle. They run either Diesel at the local, or they run bio from a few local sources.

Which couple enjoys overall more performance from their cars, and spends LESS on fuel every month?

HINT:

It ain't the couple who bought the Prius.

[ March 19, 2008, 10:28 PM: Message edited by: iron281 ]

Posted by 88DroptopGT (Member # 2535) on :

The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article = [BS flag]

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adam5.0:
by there design hybrids dont get as good gas mileage on the freeway. they are more effective for city driving. when they are on the freeway thats when the gas motors tend to turn on because they arent getting any energy from braking. might not be a 100% fair experiment. i am not hybrid fan either as a prius is more harmful to the environment than a hummer over the life of the vehicle

I'm fully aware that a hybrid gets better city MPG's. The article even mentions that point.

I've also read numerous articles comparing regular gas models to the hybrid version of the same car (like the Civic). The fact of the matter is, hybrids are not purchased for purely economic reasons. The reality is that you typically have to drive a hybrid more than 100K miles just to recover the higher cost of the initial purchase. The best hybrid, from a purely economic standpoint, is an Escape. You only have to drive it 97K miles.

There are two kinds of hybrid owners... those that buy the hybrid to let everyone else know how much better they are since they're doing something for the environment (more harm than good in the end) AND those that aren't smart enough to figure out the point I made in the above paragraph and actually think they're saving money.

The majority of hybrid owners fall into the first category which is exactly why the Civic hybrid sells poorly and why Honda already discontinued the Accord hybrid. People don't buy those cars because they don't look different enough for most other people to recognize it as a hybrid.

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article =

I agree

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article =

Genius. You're missing the point. A car the size of a BMW with diesel power is more fuel efficient than the most efficient hybrid on the market, in this instance. And the article clearly states that they added 100 miles to the route through urban areas to give the hybrid a chance to use it's electric advantage.

Your reasoning on the difference in cost is irrelevant. Do the same comparison, factoring in cost, with a Volkswagen Golf TDI and you get the same results as the article in a less expensive car.

[ March 19, 2008, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: iceman302 ]

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article =
I agree

You really should practice reading a bit more. Here's a hint: letters make words, words make sentences, sentences make paragraphs, and so on. That should be enough to get you started.

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

If you guys want an example of near-future hybrid technology that makes sense, combine hybrid tech with a diesel engine. Case in point:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/04/geneva-2008-volkswagen-golf-tdi-hybrid-concept/

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article =
I agree
You really should practice reading a bit more. Here's a hint: letters make words, words make sentences, sentences make paragraphs, and so on. That should be enough to get you started.

STFU

There's positives and negatives about every fucking situation. You're too close minded to see anything but what you want to see. If you were for the hybrids you'd see all their articles showing their perspective.

In the end, get the fuck over it man [Roll Eyes]

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article =
I agree
You really should practice reading a bit more. Here's a hint: letters make words, words make sentences, sentences make paragraphs, and so on. That should be enough to get you started.
STFU

There's positives and negatives about every fucking situation. You're too close minded to see anything but what you want to see. If you were for the hybrids you'd see all their articles showing their perspective.

In the end, get the fuck over it man

Did you have someone help you put together that eloquent little sentence?

Here let me help you out a bit more. Here's the original article...

AND a video for those of us who are HUKD ON FONICZ.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/used_car_reviews/article3552994.ece

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:
Did you have someone help you put together that eloquent little sentence?

WTF are you talking about? I'm one of the few on the board who actually speaks a language known as English.

Go back to reading all your hate mail about hybrids and regurgitating it on here [Roll Eyes]

[ March 19, 2008, 11:36 PM: Message edited by: hidnn.o.s. ]

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:
Did you have someone help you put together that eloquent little sentence?
WTF are you talking about? I'm one of the few on the board who actually speaks a language known as English.

Go back to reading all your hate mail about hybrids and regurgitating it on here

How about you go back to your tree hugging, granola eating buddies that helped you put the last couple responses together and cry a bit more. People who eat tofu are grumpy.

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:
Did you have someone help you put together that eloquent little sentence?
WTF are you talking about? I'm one of the few on the board who actually speaks a language known as English.

Go back to reading all your hate mail about hybrids and regurgitating it on here
How about you go back to your tree hugging, granola eating buddies that helped you put the last couple responses together and cry a bit more. People who eat tofu are grumpy.

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:

quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:
Did you have someone help you put together that eloquent little sentence?
WTF are you talking about? I'm one of the few on the board who actually speaks a language known as English.

Go back to reading all your hate mail about hybrids and regurgitating it on here
How about you go back to your tree hugging, granola eating buddies that helped you put the last couple responses together and cry a bit more. People who eat tofu are grumpy.

Penalty! Flag on the field! Nothing to say and excessive usage of the rolleyes. 10 yard penalty. Repeat first down.

Posted by 2tone50 (Member # 6003) on :

[dance]

Posted by t top freak (Member # 6269) on :

i read about a hybrid car on yahoo that drove across the US on 1 tank of fuel. i think it was built by exon maybe? it was FUGLY, but at 10 miles per tea spoon of fuel i wouldnt give a damn at all.

same article touched on compressed air cars being looked in to

Posted by Wolfie351 (Member # 651) on :

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:

quote:
Originally posted by Adam5.0:
by there design hybrids dont get as good gas mileage on the freeway. they are more effective for city driving. when they are on the freeway thats when the gas motors tend to turn on because they arent getting any energy from braking. might not be a 100% fair experiment. i am not hybrid fan either as a prius is more harmful to the environment than a hummer over the life of the vehicle
There are two kinds of hybrid owners... those that buy the hybrid to let everyone else know how much better they are since they're doing something for the environment (more harm than good in the end) AND those that aren't smart enough to figure out the point I made in the above paragraph and actually think they're saving money.

You're on a message board dedicated to high performance street vehicles in an area where there is more traffic than open roads. Most people here have cars that make crazy horesepower, yet will never see a racetrack. We spend $$$ on our cars, then buy a "daily driver" and only get to drive our precious vehicles on sunny weekends. I don't think we are the model of rational vehicle purchase behavior.

Posted by 88DroptopGT (Member # 2535) on :

quote:
Originally posted by iceman302:

quote:
Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
The whole article seemed to be Prius bashing the whole time. The description of labeling the Prius a "Gas Guzzler" on the headline despite having an average 2-3 mpg less and using 1 gallon more per tank.

Converting their currency figures:

The 520d cost: 27,190.00 GBP = $54,304.02 USD

The Prius cost: 20,677.00 GBP = $41,296.22 USD (A $13,0007.80 difference neglecting the 3% CCD)

Compared to the U.S MSRP the Prius imported to Europe costs about $10k - $12k more but is still $13k CHEAPER than the BMW. Imagine how much petrol that would buy!

Also the article used 2 different drivers with aggressive driving behaviors that obviously doesn't merit the cars that they are driving. They just seem to be bias towards the Prius in general.

This article =
Genius. You're missing the point. A car the size of a BMW with diesel power is more fuel efficient than the most efficient hybrid on the market, in this instance. And the article clearly states that they added 100 miles to the route through urban areas to give the hybrid a chance to use it's electric advantage.

Your reasoning on the difference in cost is irrelevant. Do the same comparison, factoring in cost, with a Volkswagen Golf TDI and you get the same results as the article in a less expensive car.

How is cost irrelevant? That is the number one concern for the main audience that is buying a hybrid for commuting. All I interpreted was an European article that praised a brand new BMW while belittling a nearly-decade old hybrid over slightly smaller efficiency rates.

If a car got 100+ MPG but costs $100,000 would people buy it? Other than a few celebrities no one else would entertain the thought of buying one. $50,000 like the BMW 520d okay you are getting somewhere. Down to $30,000 and you are looking at the Prius, which has sold more than 500,000 units in the U.S alone.

Diesels have been around since the late 1800s and their efficiency compared to spark-ignition engines is nothing new. Plus emissions are still a concern.

I am by no means a hybrid lover I just appreciate the engineering that is involved in improving modern transportation. It is sad that people see a car that is much more expensive when electric cars with 150+ mile capability have been around for nearly a decade.

Look up the EV-1, Aptera, or the movie "Who killed the Electric car?" for more information on big oil companies and how they are controlling the hybrid/diesel/electric transportation world There is a bigger picture out there..

Posted by mustanghp950 (Member # 6589) on :

put it this way:

about a month i went to long beach and back, so about 900 miles with only one other person driving on flat land except for the grapevine outside of LA, in a 2006 honda civic hybrid and avg 65mph or so the whole trip and got a whapping 30.1 mpg!!!

last weekend i drove from sacramento to tahoe and back in a 2003 altima v6 with four people and a bunch of luggage, up hill, avg about 85 mph. and i got 27.3 mpg.

but one good thing about our hybrid is that i can drive in the car pool lane when ever i want

[ March 20, 2008, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: mustanghp950 ]

Posted by DLo (Member # 6133) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adam5.0:
i am not hybrid fan either as a prius is more harmful to the environment than a hummer over the life of the vehicle

I got really curious when I read this since it isn't the first time I've heard it before. Did a little searching, and here's the first article I came up with: http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article142

I think a good chunk of people buying priuses are actually thinking they're doing some good for the environment, not just trying to reduce costs on their fuel expenses. Guess they really should think twice.

I've also heard of the prius not passing smog. Couldn't find much on this one though, other than a bunch of failed tests in Georgia due to incomplete tests because of how the Prius operates.

Posted by BCINGUU (Member # 2397) on :

Hybrids are really just a marketing phenomenon. A hybrid car is nothing more than a regular ULEV gasoline engine with a bit of extra electric power. But that electric power gets its source from the brakes, which isn't much. It's nothing new or revolutionary.

My wife gets 35 MPG in her Honda Pilot! [Eek!]

(not a hybrid)

[ March 20, 2008, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: BCINGUU ]

Posted by liftedF150 (Member # 868) on :

anybody calculate the fact that you save a shit load of time being able to use the carpool lane with a hybrid? Time is money baby i wish i had a hybrid just for that fact. I just got a new 08 escape 4 clyinder and its great.

Posted by Adam5.0 (Member # 6995) on :

to compare the prius and the bmw and make a more fair experiment they show track the two cars over a few months and in similar driving habits and see who gets better mileage, not just in one long trip.

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :

2010-2011 they're *suppose to* release some nice Diesel/electric hybrids with an avg 69-80mpg fuel economy....but with price tag $8000 higher than a gas/electric hybrid. I'd probably buy one though. The diesel will last longer & you'll therefore have more time to make your $$$ back in fuel savings. IF you keep the car that long...
I'll probably buy a used one & let someone else pay the bulk of the depreciation. [Wink]

I love my diesel vehicles.... It just sucks that they're 8500+lbs & diesel is over $4 a gallon.

Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
2010-2011 they're *suppose to* release some nice Diesel/electric hybrids with an avg 69-80mpg fuel economy....but with price tag $8000 higher than a gas/electric hybrid. I'd probably buy one though. The diesel will last longer & you'll therefore have more time to make your $$$ back in fuel savings. IF you keep the car that long...
I'll probably buy a used one & let someone else pay the bulk of the depreciation.

Here's my link from earlier in the thread that covers that exactly...

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/04/geneva-2008-volkswagen-golf-tdi-hybrid-concept/

I love my diesel vehicles.... It just sucks that they're 8500+lbs & diesel is over $4 a gallon.

Posted by DRIVINFST (Member # 2430) on :

I love people with (ugly) hybrids...more gasoline for me to burn!

[ March 23, 2008, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: DRIVINFST ]

Posted by Roush97 (Member # 2303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BCINGUU:
Hybrids are really just a marketing phenomenon. A hybrid car is nothing more than a regular ULEV gasoline engine with a bit of extra electric power. But that electric power gets its source from the brakes, which isn't much. It's nothing new or revolutionary.

My wife gets 35 MPG in her Honda Pilot! (not a hybrid)

That electric power actually comes from the inverter which is the transmission for hybrids. The inverter is powered by the gas engine when batter recharging is needed and then uses that battery power to drive the vehicle in conjunction with the gas engine except at low speeds when the gas engine is not used. The brakes add extra power regeneration.

The testers that wrote that article need to drive the BMW and the Prius in stop and go traffic for 525 miles and then see which gets better mileage. They are quite clearly not comparing apples to apples here.

Posted by Roush97 (Member # 2303) on :

quote:
Originally posted by DLo:

I got really curious when I read this since it isn't the first time I've heard it before. Did a little searching, and here's the first article I came up with: http://capoliticalnews.com/s/spip.php?article142

I think a good chunk of people buying priuses are actually thinking they're doing some good for the environment, not just trying to reduce costs on their fuel expenses. Guess they really should think twice.

I've also heard of the prius not passing smog. Couldn't find much on this one though, other than a bunch of failed tests in Georgia due to incomplete tests because of how the Prius operates. [/QB]

As far as smog goes I think you heard wrong but after all it is Georgia. In CA you don't have to worry about smog on hybrids for like another 7 years or so. CA hasn't figured out how to do a proper smog so they just don't have to be smogged for a couple of years. As far as how the hybrid operates, if you don't activate the engine all the time then it will cut off like it normally would. There is a way to turn the gasoline engine on all the time which would be needed to smog the car on a dyno.

Posted by Roush97 (Member # 2303) on :

Another thing to consider about hybrids is that they are not that great now but with further research can be in the future. The people that are buying hybrids now are actually contributing to the advancement of hybrid technology. Hybrids that use diesel or ethanol may be available in the near future which will get even better mileage. The next gen of Pruis are supposed to have plug in tech which could bump mileage up to 70+mpg because the battery can be plugged into a home outlet at night to recharge and cost only a dollar or two a day. There are actually a couple of aftermarket developers who can make your current Pruis plug in capable but it costs another 20k or so (not worth it to me).

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