This is topic 95 GT not starting up after warming up.. in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
Or really, at all on the 2nd attempt.

The ECT sensor is new.. as is most of the other things on this.

Basically, it's got a chip/tune on it, and the car requires manually retarding the distro just a touch.. then it fires up, and I have to reset the dizzy so it idles perfect.. car will run/rev/etc. fine..

Turn it off... and then when I try to restart it, nothing.. just refuses to start again. Will crank crank crank, and almost feels like it's going to lock up, lol.. but doesn't.

Kinda odd.. i've come across a lot of issues but not this.. and when I did have something similar to this it turned out to be something which didn't fix this. Soo..

Ideas? Car has an MSD 6al.. and all the crap in my sig..

Thanks..
 
Posted by Martinna (Member # 12493) on :
 
When its not starting you need to check for missing fuel or spark. It could be the TFI module. Not likely after Ford moved it off the distributor in 94 to keep them from heat death. Did your chip tuner cut the fuel spray while cranking? 42 lbs injectors spray twice as much fuel as you need to start the car.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
Ok lemme also say.. the car atm has no vortech and I have 24 lb inj in there with matching maf..

The car pretty much will not start/run with the spout connector in.. but if I pull it out, it'll fire and idle.. not great but it runs.

Once I pop the spout back in while running it's falls on it's face and dies.. if I try to turn it off, then put the spout in, then restart, it won't fire and backfires if I try to pop it off with throttle cracked..

Pull spout and it's back to starting/running ok.

Gonna look for computer grounds and such being bad.. ran codes and got nothing.

It has a chip in it.. the car was dyno tuned at apex motorsports (they're gone, aren't they?) and i'm wondering if the chip is trying to override what i'm doing to the dizzy..

The car has a .544/.529 cam in it.. does that even matter?

Is the rumor about moving spark plug wires over 1 terminal due to cam specs bs?

I can't find much..

Thanks.
 
Posted by Martinna (Member # 12493) on :
 
The computer only adds timing on top of the base timing you set the distributor to. What is your base timing set to? Sounds like it is too high. Did you also run the codes for the engine running test? You change the plug wire wiring order if your cam has a different firing order.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Martinna:
The computer only adds timing on top of the base timing you set the distributor to. What is your base timing set to? Sounds like it is too high. Did you also run the codes for the engine running test? You change the plug wire wiring order if your cam has a different firing order.
I can't see the timing marks on my balancer, it's aftermarket and had some cheap decal on it.. lmfao.. and it's all worn off.. so Im sorta going by feel and the marks I *can* see.

We set it to TDC, and am going through the range of the dizzy, and it does seem to wanna start/idle/run ok.. but soon as it's under load driving it hesitates and falls on it's face.

I just spent 9 months building a supercharged 95 cobra from scratch and 2 diff cars and it was frame off, we went through all of this on that car as well, but it wasn't doing any of this that badly.

We *should* be able to set the dizzy by feel/ear.. but apparently the cam is giving me issues.

With the spout OUT, it will fire and idle.. soon as I put it back in, it dies and runs like crap.

I'm gonna look at the harness and yank the computer and look.. but i'm hoping it's none of that and just a simple mistake on timing.

I can only move the dizzy so much either way, and even if I rotated it a tooth/etc. it wouldn't make much difference, would it?

I'm getting detonation while too high, then drop it off a touch and it barely idles/won't start.. and none of it runs with the spout in.

I could put the spout in, adjust it to where it'll run, but then what? Seems to me the chip that's in it is overriding whatever i'm doing manually when I yank the spout/put it back in....

It was dyno tuned at apex down in san jose about 7 years ago as it sits.

Confusing.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
Pulled koer test...egr isnt opening goddamnit...who has a stocker for cheap???
 
Posted by Martinna (Member # 12493) on :
 
EGR helps fuel economy and part throttle response. If it's stuck open the engine will run as you describe, not closed. The computer can't control the timing when you pull the spout. Do you have gunk on your MAF sensor elements? How does the car run with the MAF unplugged?
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Martinna:
EGR helps fuel economy and part throttle response. If it's stuck open the engine will run as you describe, not closed. The computer can't control the timing when you pull the spout. Do you have gunk on your MAF sensor elements? How does the car run with the MAF unplugged?
Yeah my bad.. that's what it was.

However, now I can't get the timing straight, lol.

Should be able to dial it in by ear, or real close.. can't. Off to the next idea.
 
Posted by Martinna (Member # 12493) on :
 
No such thing as setting timing by ear. Never let anyone work on your car who says so. You need to find top dead center of cylinder 1. Buy timing tape. It's a sticker with the markings. Once cylinder 1 is at top dead center, stick the timing tape on your balancer so the timing pointer aims at 0 degrees. Then use a timing light to adjust the distributor to 10 degrees before top dead center.
If you have a factory distributor that was never removed, there is a notched line at its base. Line it up with the line on the block to get you close to 10 degrees before top dead center.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Martinna:
No such thing as setting timing by ear. Never let anyone work on your car who says so. You need to find top dead center of cylinder 1. Buy timing tape. It's a sticker with the markings. Once cylinder 1 is at top dead center, stick the timing tape on your balancer so the timing pointer aims at 0 degrees. Then use a timing light to adjust the distributor to 10 degrees before top dead center.
If you have a factory distributor that was never removed, there is a notched line at its base. Line it up with the line on the block to get you close to 10 degrees before top dead center.
Yeah, I know.. I guess what I meant was.. no matter where we put the timing, the car is doing the same shit. I went under it the other day and remarked the stuff on the balancer, but still same bs.

I already yanked the computer and chip that was in it, and am putting my cobra computer with fresh chip/quarterhorse from my other car in it.. I have a feeling the spout function/entire computer is toast.

Either way, I have no idea what's on that other chip, and it seems I can't get it to run correctly no matter what I do.. it's not throwing any codes at me while running, so i'm not really sure wtf.

It idles great, sounds amazing, but has a hiccup when you blip the throttle, and under part under load it falls on it's face.. that's only if I can keep the thing running after putting the spout back in, and then adjusting the damn thing to idle... again...

Something clearly isn't right, and i'm thinkin' computer since i've got spark, fuel, the car idles/etc.. however when the spout goes in the car goes to shit.
 
Posted by Martinna (Member # 12493) on :
 
To test the SPOUT functionality use a timing light on the balancer with the spout in. It should be bouncing around because the EEC is continually adjust timing. Take the spout out. The timing should be steady, the EEC no longer has control over timing.

Pull the EEC codes and post them here.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Martinna:
To test the SPOUT functionality use a timing light on the balancer with the spout in. It should be bouncing around because the EEC is continually adjust timing. Take the spout out. The timing should be steady, the EEC no longer has control over timing.

Pull the EEC codes and post them here.
The only codes it threw at me were the EGR sticking open and the ROM Failure (has a chip).

I'll try again once the weather improves, it's been snowing here in Nor.Cal lol.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
Fixed. Never trust the marks. Maybe i'm old school.. but I went and did it little by little.. back it off a touch.. ran better.. do it again.. ran better.. even when I had it where *i thought* it should run ok.. I wasn't even close.

Turns out the car was way advanced. I backed it off 5 or 6x after quick easy test drives.. and wherever it sits now, it runs great.

Finally, lol. Everytime we used the marks it was way off.. doing this we said fuck it, and here we are. Car rips. My pops was a mechanic for 50 plus years.. he built lots of rods over the years.. finally we gave up and went og lol.

Car pinged a tad, back it off.. repeat. Finally the car ran to 6k clean and hard, the cam and motor it has, it should spin to 7k no prob, but i'm scared.. lol.

I think it was just the chip overridng what we were doing.. it was dyno tuned at apex before they went bye bye I guess, so I needed to "find" where that chip wanted shit.. guess I got it. Because it runs now. Really well. So thank god. Lol

[ 2018-03-09, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Blown93Snake ]
 
Posted by Martinna (Member # 12493) on :
 
Did you use the marks on the balancer or the lines on the base of the distributor? The long runner intake you have will quite allowing the motor to make power well before 7000 RPM.
 
Posted by SLOWSN95 (Member # 8269) on :
 
Are both computers being used both J4J1s? Or is the other one a T4M0? If you attempt to use a J4J1 with 24# injectors and a "calibrated" maf housing for 24s, chances are that the calibration in this case would be incorrect as the J4J1 comes from the factory made for 24# injectors and would need a stock maf housing.

I highly recommend swapping the balancer. Idk where you are located, but if your rotating assembly is for a 28oz imbalance, I could loan you an extra balancer for you to properly time your car and get to the bottom of your issue.
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SLOWSN95:
Are both computers being used both J4J1s? Or is the other one a T4M0? If you attempt to use a J4J1 with 24# injectors and a "calibrated" maf housing for 24s, chances are that the calibration in this case would be incorrect as the J4J1 comes from the factory made for 24# injectors and would need a stock maf housing.

I highly recommend swapping the balancer. Idk where you are located, but if your rotating assembly is for a 28oz imbalance, I could loan you an extra balancer for you to properly time your car and get to the bottom of your issue.
The balancer was fine, it was more that the car had been dyno tuned and I had absolutely no idea where they set it. Once the tranny went in, I had to basically go through it and fix all sorts of little shit, and the dizzy had a bad PIP. Had to pull it, swap it, and put it back, but because I had no idea how it was tuned, even setting it to 10* didn't work.

I couldn't even tell you where it's at right now. Just did it old school and backed the timing off until the car pulled hard to 6500.

When we put it to "10*" it ran like shit, so the marks musta been the wrong set, oh well. Don't matter now, runs great and has for a few weeks haha.

It has a 28oz HB and aluminum flywheel.

This car is a gt, it's got an A9L.

My other j4j1 was only used in my cobra with the vortech. This is a totally diff. car.

[ 2018-04-05, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Blown93Snake ]
 
Posted by Blown93Snake (Member # 94) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SLOWSN95:
Are both computers being used both J4J1s? Or is the other one a T4M0? If you attempt to use a J4J1 with 24# injectors and a "calibrated" maf housing for 24s, chances are that the calibration in this case would be incorrect as the J4J1 comes from the factory made for 24# injectors and would need a stock maf housing.

I highly recommend swapping the balancer. Idk where you are located, but if your rotating assembly is for a 28oz imbalance, I could loan you an extra balancer for you to properly time your car and get to the bottom of your issue.
ps clean your inbox! I can't reply to your dm
 
Posted by SLOWSN95 (Member # 8269) on :
 
Cleared
 




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