Need Timing Help on my 92 coupe - Northern California Ford Owners

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Posted by 92Coupe916 (Member # 4031) on :

Ok so here's the problem I'm having I did a e303 cam swap and installed it to spec and made sure everything is correct with the timing sprockets marks and when I install the distributor to tdc with the correct firing order 137 ect the car will fire up but I cannot rev past 1k rpm so when I move the rite up two teeth past #1 it will run better but with let me rev past 4k rpms and to note I recently did a 5speed swap with a9m computer any help will be greatly appreciated and I have made sure all my plug wires are correct.

Posted by 4IDFOX (Member # 9921) on :

Are you using a timing light and setting timing to 10* btdc. And is the harmonic balancer in good shape

[ 2014-09-08, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: 4IDFOX ]

Posted by 92Coupe916 (Member # 4031) on :

timing is set at 10* and the harmonic balancer is brand new and I forgot to mention that I also did a edlebrock performer upper and lower intake swap and a 65mm throttle body and I have checked all vacuum lines and check for leaks with starting fluid and no leaks were found I have a new tfi module and new plugs gapped at .54"

Posted by 4IDFOX (Member # 9921) on :

I have not done a 5 speed swap on an auto car but I do know there is differences in the o2 harnesses. If you did not repin the harness it will cook the computer.

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

First off those cams are off by a mile but should not cause your issue. Did you dial in the cam. I have had them all over the place so degreeing it is mandatory but is not the reason you are having issues. Also are you sure you indexed the timing gears. Because what you are discribing is very odd at best. As far as the O2 issue i have never found that an issue. But the TFI module is different between a stick and auto. Also non push start and push start. But the color is the key. You have to see if your timing is advancing?? Most likely it is not if everything is installed correctly. You may have a bad ECM. Make sure you timing is advancing and your damper is checked for TTDC. I do a TTDC check and index on every engine we work on. On fords it is mandatory. Good luck

http://www.myo-p.com/Ford-EEC/EEC%20Help%20files/Files/TFI_grey_or_black.html

[ 2014-09-09, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by 92Coupe916 (Member # 4031) on :

Tom Renzo I don't think you know what the hell your talking about!!!!

Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 92Coupe916:
Tom Renzo I don't think you know what the hell your talking about!!!!

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Really!! and whats in your GARAGE. Post up your rides either one of you. You should really know who you are talking to before posting nonsense. Bottom line someone saying i do not know what i am doing is laughable because you have your plugs gaped .54 sounds like someone without a clue!!!!!!!!!!! Do you normally gap plugs over a half inch gap @540 Thousands of an inch. Then you move the dizzy 2 teeth. Yep you really know what you are doing WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! And who is the one that has an engine that does not run properly YOU NOT ME!!

I actually have the same problem. My engine also does not rev past 1000 or is that 10,000 i forget because i do not know what i am doing.

I also have traditional American cars. Maybe the black one in this photo you can identify. I know you are sharp around cars.

[ 2014-09-11, 04:09 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by 4IDFOX (Member # 9921) on :

How does it run with the spout out ?
Is the dizzy a known good unit ? There could be a chance the dizzy is out of phase. As in the rotor and the trigger for the hal are not in sync.
It might be a good idea to get an injector noid and see when the injectors are firing in relation to timing.

[ 2014-09-11, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: 4IDFOX ]

Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:
Really!! and whats in your GARAGE. Post up your rides either one of you. You should really know who you are talking to before posting nonsense. Bottom line someone saying i do not know what i am doing is laughable because you have your plugs gaped .54 sounds like someone without a clue!!!!!!!!!!! Do you normally gap plugs over a half inch gap @540 Thousands of an inch. Then you move the dizzy 2 teeth. Yep you really know what you are doing WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! And who is the one that has an engine that does not run properly YOU NOT ME!!

I actually have the same problem. My engine also does not rev past 1000 or is that 10,000 i forget because i do not know what i am doing.

I also have traditional American cars. Maybe the black one in this photo you can identify. I know you are sharp around cars.

Your signature says it all to us. What an idiot....

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

I might be an idiot but i have the coolest cars on the planet. Calling people an idiot and names is your short fall. maybe you should listen in stead . Maybe you can help this guy out. But i dought it because people like you are a dime a dozen on websites Full of IT!! So can you identify the center Firebird??? Think hard it is one of a kind. So now that we hate each other lets call it a day. Thank you for your kind words, Now post what you think this problem is?? Talk is cheap.

The guy clearly has a timing issue (if the rest of the cam instillation is done correctly) he does not know TTDC and he is messing around with his Dizzy.

Ok 92 here is what i would do if you think you have a timing issue. Get a TDC WHISTLE and bring that engine up to TDC cyl 1 and use a small screwdriver to make sure you piston is all the way up on compression. That is what the whistle will tell you. Then see where the damper timing marks are!! If they are off that is the issue. You might be installing the Dizzy correctly with marks that are off. That is why i perform a TTDC index on every engine i build. Especially Fords. Do this drop in your Dizzy and time it to around 10* BTDC. If it runs like crap, you have other issues. Hope this helps . Calling people names that have been in this business as ling as i have will not make you any points. All i was doing is trying to help you and both you guys called me an idiot . Believe me i am not an idiot. And my signature is a quote from many years ago that was told to me by by father. It is just a saying. And i like it. You really are a JERK 89 !!

[ 2014-09-12, 03:44 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by SacGrown89GT (Member # 7435) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:
I might be an idiot but i have the coolest cars on the planet. Calling people an idiot and names is your short fall. maybe you should listen in stead . Maybe you can help this guy out. But i dought it because people like you are a dime a dozen on websites Full of IT!! So can you identify the center Firebird??? Think hard it is one of a kind. So now that we hate each other lets call it a day. Thank you for your kind words, Now post what you think this problem is?? Talk is cheap.

The guy clearly has a timing issue (if the rest of the cam instillation is done correctly) he does not know TTDC and he is messing around with his Dizzy.

Ok 92 here is what i would do if you think you have a timing issue. Get a TDC WHISTLE and bring that engine up to TDC cyl 1 and use a small screwdriver to make sure you piston is all the way up on compression. That is what the whistle will tell you. Then see where the damper timing marks are!! If they are off that is the issue. You might be installing the Dizzy correctly with marks that are off. That is why i perform a TTDC index on every engine i build. Especially Fords. Do this drop in your Dizzy and time it to around 10* BTDC. If it runs like crap, you have other issues. Hope this helps . Calling people names that have been in this business as ling as i have will not make you any points. All i was doing is trying to help you and both you guys called me an idiot . Believe me i am not an idiot. And my signature is a quote from many years ago that was told to me by by father. It is just a saying. And i like it. You really are a JERK 89 !!

Your an idiot. Haha. Your one of them know it all "mechanics" and dont know shit. Always tryina post pics of cars that arent yours and u claim to have so much experience. Please do us all a favor and dissapear from this site no one gives a flying f*** of how "cool" you arent.

That car needs headlight fluid thats all. Itll be doin 9's no prob after that. Haha.

I build cars i dont need. With money i dont have. To impress people i dont know. Cause ima dumbass. <--toms new signature

Posted by i (Member # 12534) on :

Do a burnout on that silver carrera gt then I believe matter fact swang that shit because that shit anit hot! [Big Grin]

Posted by Duncan Motors (Member # 7045) on :

TFI modules are the same auto or stick, push start to non push start?his ecu worked good before?

Posted by NK2186 (Member # 12319) on :

There is a difference in the 02 wiring harness from the 5 speed and auto. It was either auto to 5 speed that was the problem or vice versa but I forget which one for sure.

The wrong way though will cause the ecm to burn a trace on the PCB. It can be repaired usually with some solder and a wire to bypass the burnt trace (if that is all it damages).

did you make sure to ground the injector harness when you did that intake?

Posted by hurting your feelings (Member # 13641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by NK2186:
There is a difference in the 02 wiring harness from the 5 speed and auto. It was either auto to 5 speed that was the problem or vice versa but I forget which one for sure.

The wrong way though will cause the ecm to burn a trace on the PCB. It can be repaired usually with some solder and a wire to bypass the burnt trace (if that is all it damages).

did you make sure to ground the injector harness when you did that intake?

That only happens when use a five speed pcm with a automatic o2 harness. If use the automatic pcm it will be fine.

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Correct because the 5 speeder has a neutral sensing switch that the auto does not. It is actually for the ??? Now let 89 know it all answer the rest of this.

[ 2014-09-12, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Mister Duncan here is what Ford says.

The early TFI system, which Ford calls the "Push Start" TFI system, uses a gray TFI module. Originally, the module was mounted on the distributor. In the late '80s, Ford began to relocate it away from the distributor on some vehicles to provide better protection from the effects of engine heat, but system operation remained the same. It uses a Hall effect pickup (stator) in the distributor, which generates a battery voltage, 50% duty cycle square wave, called the PIP signal, to the EEC-IV PCM and the TFI module. The PCM processes this signal and sends out another battery voltage, 50% duty cycle square wave, called the SPOUT signal, to the TFI module. As long as the TFI module is receiving a SPOUT signal, it will fire the coil at the rising edge of that signal (except during engine cranking, when SPOUT is ignored) and the vehicle will run with the amount of timing advance commanded by the computer. If the TFI module does not receive the SPOUT signal, it will fire the coil at the rising edge of the PIP signal, and the vehicle will run at base timing. This is true on all TFI systems.

Ignition dwell with the Push Start (gray module) system is controlled by the TFI module alone, and increases with engine rpm. The Ignition Diagnostic Monitor (IDM) signal on a Push Start TFI system comes from the coil negative circuit and is filtered through a 22k ohm resistor to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer. The computer monitors this circuit to verify a coil firing for each PIP signal, and sets codes if it sees missing or erratic signals. Another feature that is unique to the Push Start TFI system is the start input on pin #4 of the module connector. This is wired into the starter relay trigger circuit, and signals the TFI module that the engine is cranking. When the module sees battery voltage on this circuit, the SPOUT signal is ignored.

In the early '90s, Ford began using a different TFI system on certain vehicles -- the Computer Controlled Dwell (CCD) TFI system. The TFI module on CCD TFI is always black in color. There are a few major differences between the two systems. As the name implies, with the CCD system, the computer controls primary dwell. The CCD TFI module still ungrounds (fires) the coil at the rising edge of the SPOUT signal, but now the falling edge of the SPOUT signal (which had no meaning to the Push Start TFI module) is used by the CCD TFI module to ground the coil. The PIP signal remains the same 50% duty cycle square wave, but SPOUT signal duty cycle varies according to how much dwell is desired by the computer.

Another major difference between the two systems is the IDM circuit. Pin #4 on the CCD TFI module, which was the start circuit input on the Push Start TFI module, is now the IDM signal, sent directly from the TFI module to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer. This signal is still a filtered (low voltage) version of the ignition primary waveform, but is filtered internally in the TFI module rather than through an external resistor. There isn't any start circuit input to the CCD TFI module; the module infers engine cranking from a low rpm input from the PIP signal.
Since these two TFI systems are so significantly different, yet so similar in appearance, parts application problems will inevitably occur. A gray Push Start TFI module will plug right into a CCD system, and vice versa. To make matters worse, parts books are often incorrect on TFI module applications! With the incorrect TFI module installed, the vehicle will run, but drivability and MIL (malfunction indicator lamp) problems will result. For instance, if a gray Push Start TFI module is installed in a CCD system, the computer will not be able to control ignition dwell, and the MIL will illuminate with memory codes for the IDM circuit set, as the gray TFI module is incapable of generating an IDM signal to the computer. If a black CCD TFI module is installed in a Push Start system, dwell will remain fixed, since the SPOUT signal duty cycle never changes. If in doubt about which TFI module belongs on a particular vehicle, consult the ignition system-wiring diagram for the vehicle. If the wire going to pin #4 on the EEC-IV computer comes directly from pin #4 of the TFI module, it is a CCD system. If not, it is a Push Start system.
__________________

[ 2014-09-12, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

quote:
Originally posted by i:
Do a burnout on that silver carrera gt then I believe matter fact swang that shit because that shit anit hot!

You do realize that the GT can do 210 MPH is a V10 with 612 HP and 0-60 in 3.4 I dont think doing a burnout is an issue. That car is one of the fastest cars on the planet. It drives and performs like a?? Well you know. if you ever drove one you would not believe it. I like it i think it is a keeper.

[ 2014-09-12, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

B

[ 2014-09-12, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by 86- 50 (Member # 4723) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:

quote:
Originally posted by i:
Do a burnout on that silver carrera gt then I believe matter fact swang that shit because that shit anit hot!
You do realize that the GT can do 210 MPH is a V10 with 612 HP and 0-60 in 3.4 I dont think doing a burnout is an issue. That car is one of the fastest cars on the planet. It drives and performs like a?? Well you know. if you ever drove one you would not believe it. I like it i think it is a keeper.

I dont think he was saying that because he thought it couldnt do it, I think he was saying that because he dont believe its your car.

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Ok everyone has that right. Some dont believe they walked on the MOON also. All i did was answer a post and all hell broke out. people calling me things i am clearly not. Why ask on a forum if you dont wnt feedback from others. Actually posting my cars is kind of childish when i think about it because it is hard to figure. But on the other hand people should not assume things as well. Thanks any way. And yes i can smoke them pretty darn good.

[ 2014-09-13, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:
Really!! and whats in your GARAGE. Post up your rides either one of you. You should really know who you are talking to before posting nonsense. Bottom line someone saying i do not know what i am doing is laughable because you have your plugs gaped .54 sounds like someone without a clue!!!!!!!!!!! Do you normally gap plugs over a half inch gap @540 Thousands of an inch. Then you move the dizzy 2 teeth. Yep you really know what you are doing WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! And who is the one that has an engine that does not run properly YOU NOT ME!!

I actually have the same problem. My engine also does not rev past 1000 or is that 10,000 i forget because i do not know what i am doing.

I also have traditional American cars. Maybe the black one in this photo you can identify. I know you are sharp around cars.

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

I buy them i build them and i drive them to the limit. Sorry for the blurred photo i was busy at the time coming down from XXX MPH.

[ 2014-09-13, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :

No pix of you driving the Carrera GT im guesing?

Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:
I buy them i build them and i drive them to the limit. Sorry for the blurred photo i was busy at the time coming down from XXX MPH.

on ur dyno?

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

NOPE on the interstate. here is another one a little more reasonable

[ 2014-09-13, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

NOPE on the interstate. Here is another one a little more reasonable. I love to go fast.

Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :

We got a badass over here.

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Actually i am hung up on fast cars. Yesterday i was minding my own business and a twin Porsche was messing with me.I ignored him! Tom Jr just looked over at me and said dad blow this guy away. Well i did and sometimes i take to big a chance. A guy came on to the highway and i had to stand up on the brakes. It is hard to stop at high speeds even with the oversize brakes i install on my cars. basically i am stupid i guess but i love speed. That is the car type. And i love to help people with car issues. I make mistakes just like others but when someone says bad things about me i get offended. Naturally you guys do not know me personally i understand that and sometimes i come on to strong. But bottom line we all like cars. Thanks have a great day brother. Nice chatting with you.

[ 2014-09-13, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by 70stang351w (Member # 9948) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:
Tom Jr just looked over at me and said dad blow this guy away. Well i did and sometimes i take to big a chance.

Just reminded me of this scene sorry to get off topic

[ 2014-09-13, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: 70stang351w ]

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

That is GREAT. I love it MAN. Have a great day Brother. So dam cool Thanks 70

[ 2014-09-14, 03:36 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by i (Member # 12534) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Tom Renzo:

quote:
Originally posted by i:
Do a burnout on that silver carrera gt then I believe matter fact swang that shit because that shit anit hot!
You do realize that the GT can do 210 MPH is a V10 with 612 HP and 0-60 in 3.4 I dont think doing a burnout is an issue. That car is one of the fastest cars on the planet. It drives and performs like a?? Well you know. if you ever drove one you would not believe it. I like it i think it is a keeper.

I'm just breaking you balls but how many super cars do you really own Tommy boy?

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Man so many cars and not enough road. Sorry for the blurry photo i was quite busy at the time. WHEEEEEEEEE!!!!! I love my cars that is certain. What else is there in this world??

[ 2014-09-14, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

Posted by diablounicorn (Member # 13033) on :

i dont think you posting your so called garage helped the poster even if he called you an idiot when you tried, cause now you look like one flexing your "speedometer" but couldnt have tom jr take a pic of your driving.

Posted by Tom Renzo (Member # 13165) on :

Yep i have an in car crammer in my cars now. They make them and i dont know what they are called. But complete with suction cups and that is what we use now. That is the fast ones at least.I posted that because to build a car that can go 200 MPH is not Done by an idiot or someone that bull shits. So i posted it. But you are correct it had nothing to do with the issue. I actually explained that with the info posted as i saw fit. I was only trying to help the guy and the both of them flamed me. NOT NICE as i have been building speedy cars for 50 years. Thank you you seem quit reasonable Renzo

[ 2014-09-22, 02:55 AM: Message edited by: Tom Renzo ]

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