This is topic *-Mustang Keeps Cutting Out Help-* in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners .
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Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
:
I have a 1993 Mustang 5.0 and while driving it randomly cuts out. When it does it cuts out really rapidly causing a bucking motion as if I were rapidly hitting the gas to the floor then letting off. This to me almost feels like the ignition is shutting off. It cuts out during acceleration and even during deceleration after letting off the throttle. At idle it seems to have no problems. I went around under the hood and shook any and all wires, grounds, positive wires etc and cannot get it to even flinch. Another thing that is happening is that when I go for a cold start it dies over and over. It almost acts like it's carbureted in that I have to warm it up before it will stay running. Another interesting bit of info. This started happening almost immediately after I attempted to give a guy a jump start, but his battery was completely dead, so I couldn't succesfully jump his car.
This car has a lot of mods and lots of brand new parts installed within the last year.
So far I've tried pulling the check engine codes since the light comes on once in awhile. The only code I get is KOER Code 26 which by my book says the MAF is bad, but I have yet to run across a PMAS that was bad.
I have individually tested all vacuum lines with my mityvac tester one at a time and they all hold 25+" of vacuum.
Sometimes when I try to pull the codes with my code reader the car will just die out of nowhere during the sequence. It also has some problems with raising the idle while trying to do the KOER test. KOEO does not have any codes at all, so it blinks an 11.
Other stuff ive tried:
Base Idle Reset TPS @.99v
Disconnected the msd box. The problem still remains, but is somewhat less pronounced
Bought brand new MSD cap & rotor since my old one was pretty corroded
I also noticed that the msd blaster coil is loose. The coil itself is able to move independantly of the square shaped metal surrounding piece. I've never seen a coil do that before. Typically they're solid with no movement.
Mods:
-POWER ADDER:
-Paxton SN 2000 Supercharger Kit With Upgraded Impeller(have seen 7.5 psi on boost gauge)
-INTAKE:
-PMAS Velocity 95mm MAF
-UPR Boostmaster 4" Supercharger Inlet Pipe
-BBK 70 mm Throttle Body & EGR Spacer
-Edelbrock Breather Filler Neck Cap
-T Bolt Clamps on Supercharger Outlet Tube
-FUEL:
-Ford 42lb Fuel Injectors
-Walbro 255lph In Tank Fuel Pump
-IGNITION:
-MSD 6AL Box With Quick Connect Wiring
-MSD Blaster Coil
-MSD Cap & Rotor
-Ford Racing 9mm Wires
-Autolite 24's(one step colder)Copper Spark Plugs Gapped @.032
New Parts(all within the last year):
-New MSD Cap & Rotor(March 2012)
-New Duralast 192 degree Thermostat(April 2011)
-New GP Sorenson Fuel Pressure Regulator(March 2011)
-New Fram Fuel Filter(March 2012)
-New Fram Upper To Lower Intake Manifold Gasket(March 2011)
-New BWD EGR Valve(March 2012)
-New BWD EGR Position Sensor(March 2012)
-New BWD Barometric Pressure Sensor (March 2011)
-New Bosch o2 Sensors(August 2011)
-New Rubber Vacuum Lines(September 2011)
-New EGR Vacuum Solenoid(September 2011)
-New Autolite 24 Spark Plugs Gapped @ .032(March 2012)
-New MSD Blaster Coil(October 2011)
-New BWD Throttle Position Sensor(November 2011)
-New Thermalstatic Electric Fan Controller(December 2011)
-New Oil & Filter(December 2011)
-New Duralast Idle Air Control Valve(December 2011)
-New Duralast TFI Ignition Control Module(December 2011)
-New PCV Valve(December 2011)
-New PCV Valve Grommet + light silicone(December 2011)
Ideas?
FIXED! This problem was caused by my PMAS MAF getting water inside of the circuit board. The board basically got shorted out. Replaced the MAF and the problems are gone. Thanks guys!
[ April 30, 2012, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
Posted by racsirx (Member # 1710) on
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Do you recently take your mass air meter for anything? Does it run fine during full throttle? I don't know what your mass air meter looks like, but I had a Mustang with the same problem, it was with a bullet 75mm. The bullet 75mm has the same size inlet and outlet and what my customer had put in backwards, but the Mustang would run great during throttle. Also have you tried bypassing your MSD 6AL? Every time a Mustang comes in with a problem and has a MSD Box, I immediately bypass it to see if that is the problem. MSD boxes and distributors are known for problems. Also check your distributor to see if has extra play, I have seen a lot of distributor problems lately , but I don't think it would set a mass air code.
[ March 30, 2012, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: racsirx ]
Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by racsirx:
Do you recently take your mass air meter for anything? Does it run fine during full throttle? I don't know what your mass air meter looks like, but I had a Mustang with the same problem, it was with a bullet 75mm. The bullet 75mm has the same size inlet and outlet and what my customer had put in backwards, but the Mustang would run great during throttle. Also have you tried bypassing your MSD 6AL? Every time a Mustang comes in with a problem and has a MSD Box, I immediately bypass it to see if that is the problem. MSD boxes and distributors are known for problems. Also check your distributor to see if has extra play, I have seen a lot of distributor problems lately , but I don't think it would set a mass air code.
The PMAS 95mm mAF is a huge pain in the butt to install and remove. Once I installed it I clamped it down tight and haven't touched it since. The pmas is also nearly impossible to install backwards, so I know it's in the right way.
I bypassed my MSD box earlier today and it did make the problem less pronounced, but it is still present.
Under full throttle it hesistates just the same. I only went WOT a few times since when it decides to come back on it sends the tires spinning quick.
As far as the distributor having play... do you mean pull off the cap and try to wiggle the inside? Externally the distributor does not move one bit, internally if I remove the rotor it has approx. 1/16" play back and forth, and slightly more with the rotor installed.
Posted by SLWST50 (Member # 11113) on
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Is this a OE distributor? If so, it sure sounds like a PIP issue. There isnt a very good way to check this with an intermittant fault, but repacing it wont hurt. Typically you will get a code for PIP circuit, but can also show itself in MAF and EGR codes. Also, if you have the blaster coil (especially if it is poorly insulated), replace it with a known good piece to check operation. If it is at fault DO NOT buy another.. Get a Motorcraft unit.
Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on
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Had the similar issue many years ago on my old car and it turned out to be my mass air. I would unplug it and see how she does with the pre-set tables.
Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by SLWST50:
Is this a OE distributor? If so, it sure sounds like a PIP issue. There isnt a very good way to check this with an intermittant fault, but repacing it wont hurt. Typically you will get a code for PIP circuit, but can also show itself in MAF and EGR codes. Also, if you have the blaster coil (especially if it is poorly insulated), replace it with a known good piece to check operation. If it is at fault DO NOT buy another.. Get a Motorcraft unit.
Yeah this is the OE distributor. I have thought about it being the PIP. Especially since the distributor is one of the few things I havent changed yet.
The blaster coil was purchased brand new only a couple months ago. What do you mean by poorly insulated?
quote:
Originally posted by Camara90:
Had the similar issue many years ago on my old car and it turned out to be my mass air. I would unplug it and see how she does with the pre-set tables.
I will try this once the weather clears up. I already contacted power adder solutions and they are confidant that this issue is not related to the pmas. I really hope it isn't because that thing is such a pain to install. I did unplug the MAF at idle already and it immediately illuminated the CEL and ran like crap.
[ March 31, 2012, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
:
Well I just removed the MSD Blaster Coil. The red coil piece is easily able to independantly move inside of the square metal piece that bolts to the bracket on the side of the inner fender. I've had many coils and none have ever done anything like that. I purchased it from O'Reilly Auto Parts back in October 2011. They said they come with a one year warranty, so I'll exchange it first and hope that solves the problem. I still have my original Ignition Coil, so I can try that one out too if need be. This weather sucks though, so I'm going to wait before driving it for it to dry up since it would be unsafe to drive around with it cutting out like it is with it being slick everywhere.
Here's my coil, so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about.
Maybe this problem is what caused them to redesign it like this?
Anyone know if the square piece on my current coil actually acts as some sort of ground? If so, then it would seem very likely that it is causing the problem.
[ March 31, 2012, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: FivePTSlow ]
Posted by racsirx (Member # 1710) on
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I have had a Jacob and a MSD coil go bad, when they went bad the Mustang wouldn't run at all.
Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
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I replaced the coil with the newer style tonight after I got home from work. I didn't go drive it around, but when I fired it up it didn't die immediately like it has been doing, so that's a start. Once the weather clears I'll take it out for a drive. I hope the coil being loose was causing my problem.
Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Camara90:
Had the similar issue many years ago on my old car and it turned out to be my mass air. I would unplug it and see how she does with the pre-set tables.
Today I unplugged my mass air and went for a drive. If I drive normally it acts a little funny as far as idle surge and high idle etc, but drives perfect while just cruising around. If I go WOT it just cuts out completely and decelerates. If I plug the MAF back in it starts bucking/hesitating really badly now. I can't even get up to 20mph because it keeps cutting out so bad. Trying to go WOT is a gamble most of the time it just feels like it's missing, but then once in awhile it would go like hell.
This is after switching out the MSD Coil for the new style.
Posted by FivePTSlow (Member # 7682) on
:
I decided to remove and clean my pmas meter today and found that there was water inside of it. I noticed that the 6 to 4 prong adapter that you have to use has two completely open holes(one at each end) which wound up letting a lot of water inside of the maf computer board. I attempted to dry it out with low pressure air, cleaned the maf element, and then reinstalled it. It runs much better now, but it still has hiccups, so it looks like I'm going to have to buy a new meter ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by SSF_5.0_WARRIOR (Member # 10170) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by FivePTSlow:
quote:
Originally posted by SLWST50:
Is this a OE distributor? If so, it sure sounds like a PIP issue. There isnt a very good way to check this with an intermittant fault, but repacing it wont hurt. Typically you will get a code for PIP circuit, but can also show itself in MAF and EGR codes. Also, if you have the blaster coil (especially if it is poorly insulated), replace it with a known good piece to check operation. If it is at fault DO NOT buy another.. Get a Motorcraft unit.
Yeah this is the OE distributor. I have thought about it being the PIP. Especially since the distributor is one of the few things I havent changed yet.
The blaster coil was purchased brand new only a couple months ago. What do you mean by poorly insulated?
quote:
Originally posted by Camara90:
Had the similar issue many years ago on my old car and it turned out to be my mass air. I would unplug it and see how she does with the pre-set tables.
I will try this once the weather clears up. I already contacted power adder solutions and they are confidant that this issue is not related to the pmas. I really hope it isn't because that thing is such a pain to install. I did unplug the MAF at idle already and it immediately illuminated the CEL and ran like crap.
This.. My car was doing almost the exact same thing. I was going crazy trying to figure it out. It turned out to be the PIP sensor inside the Dizzy. I have a MSD OEM replacement Dizzy. I took it apart and replaced it with a new one. Problem fixed for me.. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
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