This is topic Power Guesstimate? in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
Ok guys, gotta jump on the hp power guestimation bandwagon.
Give me your best guesses;

93 Cobra block, .030 over
96 Explorer (GT40) heads
Crane 1.7 roller rockers
slightly too short pushrods (I assume this effects cam?)
B cam
Long Tube headers
Typhoon Intake
K&N a.f. and homemade intake tube
3G Alt
stock maf, stock injectors
AC & smog pump eliminated
2.5" exhaust w H pipe, no cats, no mufflers-

ideas? 275? I'd be EXTREMELY happy if it made 300.
 
Posted by Ryan_LX (Member # 7089) on :
 
I think you could hit the 300 mark if you ditched that intake and run some mufflers [patriot]

[ January 05, 2011, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Ryan_LX ]
 
Posted by Pure Stang (Member # 7251) on :
 
270-280 if you are lucky. man this question gets asked a lot lol
 
Posted by wilit (Member # 3367) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pure Stang:
270-280 if you are lucky. man this question gets asked a lot lol
Yeah, I see this question a lot too. It seems it's either a B cam with 1.7's or an E cam with 1.6's but the rest of the combo is always the same.
 
Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
ha ha- yeah, it WAS an E-cam too, but swapped it out. Pretty damn common.
You think the Typhoon el-cheapo intake is worse than stock?
I'll put mufflers on it if I can afford em- just runnin outta money fast on this thing- pure track car anyway.
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
lol gt40 heads huh..they suck ass you wont make more than 200hp..at the wheel!..im jk..im running ported gt40 irons,tfs1 cam with 1.7 rr,gt40 tubular intake,longtubes and a mac catback..no clue on what power im making but it runs great [Whoo Whooooo!] [burnout]
 
Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae:
lol gt40 heads huh..they suck ass you wont make more than 200hp..at the wheel!..im jk..im running ported gt40 irons,tfs1 cam with 1.7 rr,gt40 tubular intake,longtubes and a mac catback..no clue on what power im making but it runs great [Whoo Whooooo!] [burnout]
LOL- I was like wtf? ha ha- good stuff man. I just need it to break these 275s loose and light em up for a couple of 20 minute drift shows over seas.
This bitch is going to Costa Rica!
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dpracingdan:
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae:
lol gt40 heads huh..they suck ass you wont make more than 200hp..at the wheel!..im jk..im running ported gt40 irons,tfs1 cam with 1.7 rr,gt40 tubular intake,longtubes and a mac catback..no clue on what power im making but it runs great [Whoo Whooooo!] [burnout]
LOL- I was like wtf? ha ha- good stuff man. I just need it to break these 275s loose and light em up for a couple of 20 minute drift shows over seas.
This bitch is going to Costa Rica!
lol thats wusup!..shit my gt40 headed combo jus slid third on my way home tonite..im sure you will be fine
 
Posted by 2TONE (Member # 4216) on :
 
Sounds like a budget build...I don't think you'll make 300hp..don't listen to the guy that knows nothing about nothing...275 maybe...change up the intake ,mass air,and injectors and maybe..but then again I'm no expert,I just own a 4cyl 92 gt

[ January 07, 2011, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: 2TONE ]
 
Posted by 2TONE (Member # 4216) on :
 
Not you jaejae,not u willit,not u pure stang
 
Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
What do you guys suggest thats easy/cheap bolt on stuff to add some more umph? 24s w matching MAF?
Also, are mufflers that important for the power?
And yes, when ISNT it a budget build? This is the back up/demo car, so yeah, its not gettin the financial love that Drift Patrol #2 gets.
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dpracingdan:
What do you guys suggest thats easy/cheap bolt on stuff to add some more umph? 24s w matching MAF?
Also, are mufflers that important for the power?
And yes, when ISNT it a budget build? This is the back up/demo car, so yeah, its not gettin the financial love that Drift Patrol #2 gets.
i think the car would run better with a full catback honestly... [Wink] ..
 
Posted by 87TURBO (Member # 9257) on :
 
are stock short block with gt40heads explore intake,e cam,1.7rr,longtubes full exouse 3 inch bullets,70tb, no ac n smog pump, made 296rw 330tq tru t5 and dinojet do!! ditch that b cam n get a tfs stage1 or ecam [Wink]
 
Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
damn I just swapped out the E for a B. is it that much better?
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dpracingdan:
damn I just swapped out the E for a B. is it that much better?
no..lol b cam is fine..gonna have great low end tq for drifting [Wink]
 
Posted by 2TONE (Member # 4216) on :
 
Damn near the same
 
Posted by copcar (Member # 10113) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dpracingdan:
Ok guys, gotta jump on the hp power guestimation bandwagon.
Give me your best guesses;

93 Cobra block, .030 over
96 Explorer (GT40) heads
Crane 1.7 roller rockers
slightly too short pushrods (I assume this effects cam?)
B cam
Long Tube headers
Typhoon Intake
K&N a.f. and homemade intake tube
3G Alt
stock maf, stock injectors
AC & smog pump eliminated
2.5" exhaust w H pipe, no cats, no mufflers-

ideas? 275? I'd be EXTREMELY happy if it made 300.
1) Slightly too short pushrods?? No it has no effect on the cam, It has a GREAT effect on the valve train geometry... You will ruin your valve seals.

2) Long tube headers... Complete waste on this combination.

3) Typhoon Intake... With extensive work, not a bad intake. Out of the box? possibly an adequate boat anchor.

4)stock maf and injectors?? This is a joke right??

5)no cats or mufflers?? Now I know it's a joke..

Pretty funny stuff man... You really had me going.


If you are serious...

You will be lucky to get 230 out of that combination. It will make no power anywhere and will last just long enough to change the oil twice, maybe three times.
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
with the right pushrods, I would think around 250rwhp....
 
Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
gotta love the cynical forum A-holes- ha ha ha. Well I've seen multiple stock 5.0s dyno 211-216 rwhp, so I certainly hope I'll make more than 230. 250 is probably closer to what it'll really make. How could longtubes be "a complete waste on this combination"? Does this mean they'll hurt the performance? Restrict it? Otherwise, I dont see how $130 Summit Longtubes (which sound awesome and make working on it muuuuch easier)be a waste at all.
I have been trying to locate a matching set of 24 lbs/hr injectors w MAF, but with only a week to build the car and about $2k, it just didnt happen. As for the exhaust, it too just hadnt gotten the attention or dollars- but should before the demo. As far as it running only long enough for me to change the oil two or three times, I find this the funniest. Mostly due to the fact that I ran a junkyard 5.0 w an SL1200 blowing through it making 468rwhp and it JUST finally gave out after for 5 years of HARD, HARD use and competition.
Do appreciate your input though. You sure you're not a Chevy guy? Most Ford folks seem to be pretty cool- lol.

[ January 12, 2011, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: dpracingdan ]
 
Posted by copcar (Member # 10113) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by dpracingdan:
gotta love the cynical forum A-holes- ha ha ha. Well I've seen multiple stock 5.0s dyno 211-216 rwhp, so I certainly hope I'll make more than 230. 250 is probably closer to what it'll really make. How could longtubes be "a complete waste on this combination"? Does this mean they'll hurt the performance? Restrict it? Otherwise, I dont see how $130 Summit Longtubes (which sound awesome and make working on it muuuuch easier)be a waste at all.
I have been trying to locate a matching set of 24 lbs/hr injectors w MAF, but with only a week to build the car and about $2k, it just didnt happen. As for the exhaust, it too just hadnt gotten the attention or dollars- but should before the demo. As far as it running only long enough for me to change the oil two or three times, I find this the funniest. Mostly due to the fact that I ran a junkyard 5.0 w an SL1200 blowing through it making 468rwhp and it JUST finally gave out after for 5 years of HARD, HARD use and competition.
Do appreciate your input though. You sure you're not a Chevy guy? Most Ford folks seem to be pretty cool- lol.
Hmmm.. After working at a shop to put myself through college and dynoing countless 5.0's, I have NEVER seen one lay down more than 195 stock. As for being a cynical A-hole. Not at all. I'm realistic...and honest. Perhaps you should try the same with your expectations of this build. BTW, to answer your questions. In short, the long tubes will do nothing for this combination in terms of power because this will send a VERY false signal to the ecu in terms of O2 temp and pulse duration unless a tune is used to correct this scaler. Second to that point, explain to me how this will make the car easier to work on?? As to the comment on the longevity of this combination, anyone willing to run short pushrods and no exhaust, stock injectors and maf - regardless of intent to buy upgraded components - and declare its purpose as a competition appliance is asking for catastrophic valve train failure and or a blown headgasket.
 
Posted by MauriSSio (Member # 9943) on :
 
how will havng straght pipes welded in instead of mufflers lead to catastrophic valvetrain failure or a blown headgasket

stock injectors could support up to 300 crank hp

[ January 13, 2011, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: MauriSSio ]
 
Posted by copcar (Member # 10113) on :
 
Are you freaking serious??? The exhaust has nothing to do with the valvetrain geometry, nor did I state that it does. Reread my posts... As for the 19 lb injectors supporting 300 crank hp, sure they can, but not very well and certainly not with any margin for error or tunability.
 
Posted by 2TONE (Member # 4216) on :
 
Copcar FTMW
 
Posted by rollininmy50 (Member # 9067) on :
 
heres my suggestion, you can afford to buy add ons, but cant afford to take it to the shop for a horsepower check, and you think buy asking someone how much horsepower you will get buy a post on cafords, dude this forum is not a tech machine, you cant plug your car into cafords, so why ask?? you want to know plug the FN car in at a shop, cause no one will know what crap youve added or how you installed it, or if your motor was brand new, cause a motor with high miles will not show you what you want to know.. and not even the best tch on here will know, YOU NEED A MACHINE sell some of your stuff, get some cash and pay for it... good luck bro..
 
Posted by C6Z06s_own_50Deep (Member # 5888) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:
quote:
Originally posted by dpracingdan:
Ok guys, gotta jump on the hp power guestimation bandwagon.
Give me your best guesses;

93 Cobra block, .030 over
96 Explorer (GT40) heads
Crane 1.7 roller rockers
slightly too short pushrods (I assume this effects cam?)
B cam
Long Tube headers
Typhoon Intake
K&N a.f. and homemade intake tube
3G Alt
stock maf, stock injectors
AC & smog pump eliminated
2.5" exhaust w H pipe, no cats, no mufflers-

ideas? 275? I'd be EXTREMELY happy if it made 300.
1) Slightly too short pushrods?? No it has no effect on the cam, It has a GREAT effect on the valve train geometry... You will ruin your valve seals.

2) Long tube headers... Complete waste on this combination.

3) Typhoon Intake... With extensive work, not a bad intake. Out of the box? possibly an adequate boat anchor.

4)stock maf and injectors?? This is a joke right??

5)no cats or mufflers?? Now I know it's a joke..

Pretty funny stuff man... You really had me going.


If you are serious...

You will be lucky to get 230 out of that combination. It will make no power anywhere and will last just long enough to change the oil twice, maybe three times.
quoted for truth....this combination is just oddball and be lucky to reach over 230RW
 
Posted by MauriSSio (Member # 9943) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:......As to the comment on the longevity of this combination, anyone willing to run short pushrods and no exhaust , stock injectors and maf - regardless of intent to buy upgraded components - and declare its purpose as a competition appliance is asking for catastrophic valve train failure and or a blown headgasket ...
read what you posted. You see that part where you say "no exhaust"....thats what i was talking about. you said it, not me.

[ January 13, 2011, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: MauriSSio ]
 
Posted by copcar (Member # 10113) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by MauriSSio:
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:......As to the comment on the longevity of this combination, anyone willing to run short pushrods and no exhaust , stock injectors and maf - regardless of intent to buy upgraded components - and declare its purpose as a competition appliance is asking for catastrophic valve train failure and or a blown headgasket ...
read what you posted. You see that part where you say "no exhaust"....thats what i was talking about. you said it, not me.
Allow me to explain general punctuation and conversational grammar.

First of all my statement is of a "cause and effect" nature.

(1) Here I am interjecting my subjects, not tied together but as an either/or setup to following points of conversation. You will notice a comma after the two subjects. This seperates the subjects and does not combine the two, rather pairs them as points of conversation.

"anyone willing to run short pushrods and no exhaust,"

(2) Next you will find a hyphenated statement (preceded by the afformentioned break in thought).

"stock injectors and maf - regardless of intent to buy upgraded components -"

The use of a hyphen implies another break in conversation and is used to emphasize the intent.

Finally I give the effect of the chosen plan of build based on the combination as a whole.

"and declare its purpose as a competition appliance is asking for catastrophic valve train failure and or a blown headgasket."

Does that clear anything up for you? Further, do you seriously think ANYBODY else who read my post would make the mistake of thinking long tube headers BEND pushrods?
 
Posted by dpracingdan (Member # 5778) on :
 
Wow- this post took a serious turn for the worse- I had no idea aksing some folks what hp they thought I'd make would create such a shyt storm. I've been to the dyno plenty guys- PLENTY. Just havent had the time to with this car YET. Of course I intend to have it tuned- put some bigger injectors, yada yada yada.
But operating/maintaining/owning/driving/financing two race cars that compete not only nationally but also globally is a daunting task to say the least.
All I was hoping to do is see if anybody had similar setups and any results. Glad I gave so many haters a chance to show how smart they are.
 
Posted by MauriSSio (Member # 9943) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:
quote:
Originally posted by MauriSSio:
quote:
Originally posted by copcar:......As to the comment on the longevity of this combination, anyone willing to run short pushrods and no exhaust , stock injectors and maf - regardless of intent to buy upgraded components - and declare its purpose as a competition appliance is asking for catastrophic valve train failure and or a blown headgasket ...
read what you posted. You see that part where you say "no exhaust"....thats what i was talking about. you said it, not me.
Allow me to explain general punctuation and conversational grammar.

First of all my statement is of a "cause and effect" nature.

(1) Here I am interjecting my subjects, not tied together but as an either/or setup to following points of conversation. You will notice a comma after the two subjects. This seperates the subjects and does not combine the two, rather pairs them as points of conversation.

"anyone willing to run short pushrods and no exhaust,"

(2) Next you will find a hyphenated statement (preceded by the afformentioned break in thought).

"stock injectors and maf - regardless of intent to buy upgraded components -"

The use of a hyphen implies another break in conversation and is used to emphasize the intent.

Finally I give the effect of the chosen plan of build based on the combination as a whole.

"and declare its purpose as a competition appliance is asking for catastrophic valve train failure and or a blown headgasket."

Does that clear anything up for you? Further, do you seriously think ANYBODY else who read my post would make the mistake of thinking long tube headers BEND pushrods?
so what was the point of you even posting "and no exhaust"??? were you just going for effect and flamboyancy? What is the "no exhaust" causing or effecting??? If nothing, then why throw it in there with everything THAT IS causing and effecting?

[ January 14, 2011, 09:49 AM: Message edited by: MauriSSio ]
 
Posted by copcar (Member # 10113) on :
 
It (no exhaust) is a simple link in a chain of poor performance choices on a computer controlled engine combination. The entire post is based on the reader's understanding on how that system and its corresponding team of sensors and meters work synergistically. This understanding, combined with the common knowledge of the ramifications of poor valvetrain geometry and inadequate fuel mass planning for the engine combination stated gave rise to that post. If you would like for me to explain further feel free to pm me.
 
Posted by 707notchback jaejae (Member # 7958) on :
 
i took copcars advice..and my car runs great [patriot]
 
Posted by copcar (Member # 10113) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 707notchback jaejae:
i took copcars advice..and my car runs great [patriot]
Very happy to have helped! [patriot]
 




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