This is topic Head Gasket or Intake Coolant Leak??? in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
My car has been loosing coolant recently and running a little warm so I did a coolant flush thinking there was just crap in the radiator cores. Seemed okay for a little and then when I go to drive it last wednesday while cruising on the freeway, the car surged. I check my guages and the temp is pushing on the Hot side. I pull it over and its completely out of water. So I let it cool off, put some water in it and drive some more. It then starts running hot again, I pull over and its shooting water out the over flow.

So I figure then maybe my radiator cap is bad, so I change it, drive the car and it still pukes. I then thought maybe there is air in the system so I burb it and that didn't help either. I then change out the themostat thinking the old one was bad, refill and burp the system. After that everything seemed okay. Running cool, no leaking.

Thinking it was fixed, I took the car out to a car show today and on the way back the car starts heating up to about mid way between my Cold-Hot gauge. It usually runs at 1/4 past the cold mark on the guage. The temp didnt increase past the half way mark all the way back towards home. I stop in at a store for 5 mins, come back out, start the car. While waiting at a red light, the temp climbs to 3/4 toward the hot mark and now the car is steaming out the exhaust! So I pull the car off in the next drive way and shut it off. Turns out all the water was gone out of the radiator. I refill the radiator after letting it cool. Start it up, no more white smoke and I drive it home with no issues.

So now what do I do? I'm thinking head gasket or intake gasket? My vaccum readings are normal while at idle and driving. The engine does feel like it has a slight miss at times. I haven't done any compression test yet but will in the next day or two. There is no water in my oil. How can I tell if the intake gasket went? What other tests can I do that would tell which gasket went? I really dont want to pull the heads if I dont have to. Kinda weird that its still coming out the overflow too.

Thanks

[ October 09, 2010, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: Secnd2nun64 ]
 

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Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 
Head gasket, hands down.
 

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Posted by fasthatch (Member # 7277) on :
 
go to napa auto parts an by a block tester to check for a blown head gasket
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Couldn't there be a possibility that coolant is leaking from the crossovers on the intake into one of the intake runners? How could I test for that?

Also what is a block tester? Do you mean a compression or leak down tester?
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Nevermind on the block tester. I figured out what it is. Never used one before but it looks like you can rent them from Autozone. They dye is only $8 too.
 

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Posted by SLOWSN95 (Member # 8269) on :
 
Do a compression test. Or go to a smog shop and ask if they can put the Sniffer in the radiator where the cap goes. If the HCs come back positive, its a head gasket..
 

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Posted by [SHO]TIME (Member # 8962) on :
 
from what you have said it sounds like a head gasket. but think about this if there is no sighns of water in your oil milky white or grey on your dipstick then where did all your coolant go?have you checked your passenger floorboard for water.heater core. turn on your heater does it steem up your windshield.if so its heater core time.this is one of the weekest links in a 5.0 or any mustang for that matter.the white smoke is a sighn of water in your cylinders pull a couple plugs out and check the tips for sighns of rust.if its not your heater core that sucks cause then its time for a complete overhaul to remove any guess work.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
I havent done any compression test yet but when I started it this morning it sounded like a diesel truck and the water was gone again plus a little white smoke. 99% sure now that it's the head gasket. I'm still going to do the compression test.

I have the felpro MLS gaskets on there right now. I'm wondering why they went. From what I read they can handle boost and should be fine with my horsepower. I'll get up to 10lbs boost max but most the time I just get about 7lbs. I wouldnt think that I need o-rings. I'm estimating my horsepower is only in the upper 300 range. These gaskets are just a little over a year old. I put them on when I got the trickflow heads and I used new ARP Bolts and everything was torqed in sequence and double checked. I have about 8,000 miles on them. I know doing the wednesday night drags doesnt help it but you would think the gaskets would last longer than this.

[ October 11, 2010, 12:32 AM: Message edited by: Secnd2nun64 ]
 

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Posted by 66_5.0 (Member # 9974) on :
 
Have u checked your water pump by chance? I had mine go out not too long ago and when i would start it it would have this loud pinging noise which ended up being broken bearings on the pump
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
I thought about the water pump too. I've never changed it. It doesn't make any sounds and doesn't leak. Not too sure how else to check it.

I just did the compression test and I have 130psi in all cylinders which is normal for my setup. Looking at the spark plugs, cylinder #5 had some crusty deposits on it and the center electrode was warn into a wavy shape on top. The rest of the plugs looked okay. Cylinder #7 spark plug smelt a little sweet like coolant while the rest just smelt like fuel.

Still think head gasket? I was really expecting to have no compression in at least one cylinder with the way it was running yesterday.

[ October 11, 2010, 05:38 PM: Message edited by: Secnd2nun64 ]
 

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Posted by Duncan Motors (Member # 7045) on :
 
why would you drive it havin those problems? steamin out the exaust, i think head gaskets. let the car cool. fill the radiator all the way, leave the cap off, start or crank over the motor if your water spurts out the radiator, def bad head gaskets or cracked head.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
why would you drive it havin those problems? steamin out the exaust, i think head gaskets. let the car cool. fill the radiator all the way, leave the cap off, start or crank over the motor if your water spurts out the radiator, def bad head gaskets or cracked head.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Darkhorse1:
Is your overflow tank full everytime it overheats? does it leak coolant? have you pressure tested the cooling system? have you seen the cooling fan turn on and cycle? if you do have 150# in every cylinder and if it was a coolant leak, block teaster will not work the only way block tester works is if coolant goes to combustion chamber and with 150# I bet thats not happening.

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The overflow fills up and will spray out of it. The overflow is one of those billet tube ones so it doesn't hold much. I only got because they race track requires one. The stock setup just had a rubber hose down the side of the radiator. I haven't pressure tested the cooling system but I rented that tool as well. My fan runs off the water pump and is strait mechanical so it's always turning.

I figured the block tester would confirm that the water is not getting into the cylinders. So if that checks out okay, then the water must be getting in when the intake valve opens.

Here's some pics I took of the spark plugs. Notice spark plug #5. This one would be right next to the water jacket on the intake and is on the same side of the exhaust that I noticed the white smoke coming out of.

Spark Plugs bottom to top... 1-4 left side, 5-8 right side.

Close up on#5



 

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Posted by 93sspCOUPE (Member # 8418) on :
 
Are you comp testing the rad cap on? If so do it with it off see what happens. But ur theory off the intake gasket could be it pull the manifold if it's not that then it's 99% the head gasket. I had this trouble before I was certain it was a head gasket
so I did all the work car still got hot And ate water but there was no water in the oil tirned out to have a cracked head dropping water in the cylinder
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93sspCOUPE:
Are you comp testing the rad cap on? If so do it with it off see what happens. But ur theory off the intake gasket could be it pull the manifold if it's not that then it's 99% the head gasket. I had this trouble before I was certain it was a head gasket
so I did all the work car still got hot And ate water but there was no water in the oil tirned out to have a cracked head dropping water in the cylinder

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quote:

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Originally posted by turbo50:
Head gasket, hands down.

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Wanna start taking bets??


 

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Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
my vote is headgasket.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Did the compression test without the radiator cap on and the readings were still normal. I picked up a new set of spark plugs today. I'm going to put them into tomorrow and do the block test and coolant pressure test. Following that up with pulling the intake off.

For my own sake, I'm going to vote (I mean hope)for bad intake gasket.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Combustion test using the radiator pressure test tool and block tester tool showed no issues.

I've been reading up on the intake gaskets and people have been complaining about dexcool eating up the composite gaskets which is what I have in/on there right now so I'm leaning towards the intake leaking.

I'm going to pull the intake tomorrow and see if I can find the issue. Felpro makes a steel core laminate intake gasket so I think I will try that one out for the replacement.
 

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Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
dexcool takes YEARS to eat intake gaskets, and only will start to break down if there is air contained in the system.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Pulled the intake, looks like the coolant port was leaking into cyl 5. The gasket was very mushy there. The gasket was still stuck good to the head but leaked between the top of the gasket and the intake. You can see the color difference on the #5 intake runner due to the coolant and how the factory silicone intake seal on the intake gasket corroded away. I picked up a new steel core laminate intake gasket and some new ARP Bolts yesterday.






 

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Posted by 93sspCOUPE (Member # 8418) on :
 
coo good thing it wasnt a head gasket!! funny how a lil coolant leak into a cylinder makes hella smoke and hella problems
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93sspCOUPE:
coo good thing it wasnt a head gasket!! funny how a lil coolant leak into a cylinder makes hella smoke and hella problems

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Yea, I'm pretty happy that I dont need to pull the heads. That supercharger was covering up a lot of crud in the engine compartment. Definitely time for some detailing before I put all that stuff back on!

I think I'm going to run a think coat of blue RTV around the water port on the new intake gasket to give a little more corrosion protection on the seal.
 

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Posted by 68dustin (Member # 5388) on :
 
i run that stuff called "something better" it comes in a can like cheeze wiz. I know kragen sells it for around 13 bucks. I was having problems with leaks, but since ive been using that, no leakes what so ever.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Took the car out today and no more overheating problem or coolant loss. Thanks for the replies and to you head gasket guys!
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
So took the car out yesterday and it started heating up again. Coolant loss still there but much less loss than before. I think both gaskets were bad. So annoyed!

If I use a leak down tester on that cylinder, I should be able to push air bubbles thru the cooling system if the gasket is blown right? Can you tell I'm tired of working on this thing already? lol I dont trust mechanics with my cars so it may be sitting in the garage for a while.

I guess blowing a head gasket is better than blowing something else internal. Especially since I'm still running cast pistons. Maybe this is the time to start with a different short block. I was thinking 351w with my TFS heads and paxton. I would probably need new headers, intake, oil pan among other misc things. Do those 351w roller engines come with forged pistons? Going 351w is probably too much for the t5 though.

Maybe I should just pull that driver side head, get it resurfaced/dye checked and put a new gasket on.
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Hooked up the leak down tester and put my ear next to the radiator fill neck and it sounded all bubbly like a soda can and the tester showed 50% leak.

If I actually puchased that stupid block tester it would be in the trash right now! Man I hate doing things twice!! Stupid autozone rent a tools!!!

I'm done venting now. lol
 

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Posted by 68dustin (Member # 5388) on :
 
Damn that sucks... why do you think it blew?
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
I think it happened at the drag strip when I blew the power steering line next to my header. I remember missing the 2-3 shift the pass before then went to stage on the next round and then it started to run weird and then the line blew. I need to replace that stock shifter, every once in a while when racing it will lock me out of 3rd gear.

[ October 20, 2010, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: Secnd2nun64 ]
 

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Posted by 68dustin (Member # 5388) on :
 
do you have a rev limiter on that thing?
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Yea, I got that 6200 pill you gave me a while back in there. I heard it hit the limiter when I missed the shift.
 

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Posted by 68dustin (Member # 5388) on :
 
yeah i think im gonna wait to up the boost..lol.. i wanna work on steering anyways..
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Well.. more boost is a lot of fun till you go and blow something!

So yeah go and do you steering so I can learn from your mistakes. lol

[ October 20, 2010, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Secnd2nun64 ]
 

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Posted by 68dustin (Member # 5388) on :
 
LOL. im heading out to sac in 15 mins.. what was ur best time so far with the more boost?? how much were you making on boost?
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
12.7 seconds 7-10lbs between 5500-6k. I still have a tech card from last time. Maybe I'll head out there next week.
 

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Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Secnd2nun64:
Took the car out today and no more overheating problem or coolant loss. Thanks for the replies and to you head gasket guys!

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Did you say something about us headgasket guys??



 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
yeah! I'm still too! lol
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
Pulled the head. Here's some new pics. Looks like the coolant was eating the gasket. The water cleaned the hell out of the piston.

What type of coolant do you guys use with your aluminum heads? Any shop recommendations to get my head resurfaced with a fly cutter?








 

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Posted by 93sspCOUPE (Member # 8418) on :
 
Use some ls1 antifreeze like for a maro or vette or use the shit they use in o3-04 cobras
 

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Posted by Secnd2nun64 (Member # 1431) on :
 
What type of coolant is that? Can I buy it in stores or do I need to go to ford to get it?

The passenger head checked out all fine but I'm going to pull that one too. Chances are that the head gasket on that side is messed up too, just not leaking yet.

I think I'm going to flush the dexcool out of my Porsche too. That car is an even bigger PITA to work on.
 

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Posted by built95faleen (Member # 8828) on :
 
i have the exact same problem with my car. except that i also pulled the heads to find that the gaskets didnt look bad at all. going to tear down the heads further this weekend. any other suggestions?
 

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Posted by 68dustin (Member # 5388) on :
 
i just run water with that redline water wetter.
 

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