This is topic Engine-Build & More (LOTS OF PICS!) in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Just finished the motor, thought you guys might like to see my project.

(NOTE: Electric Fuel Pump location in the pics was temporary and is being relocated soon) I'm aware that it needs to be closer to the tank, lower, and motor-up)

-LOTS OF PICS AND MORE TO COME!!! ENJOY!

Just bought a '65 coupe in Fall of 2008.
This car is my class project at ARC in Sacramento. I'll be working on it both this Fall/Winter and next Spring semester, and maybe next Fall also, we'll see.

I'll keep everyone informed and post new pics and info as I go.

It came with...
-Current registration
-minimal rust
-runs strong
-Late-model 1985 .020 over Roller 302 HO motor with forged TRW pistons and mildly ported '85 heads with larger valves, 1.7 JBA Roller Rockers, 10k miles on long-block
-MSD 6A
-MSD billet distributor
-Edelbrock Performer RPM intake
-Carter/Edelbrock 600cfm 4 bbl carb with electric choke
-Hi-po 289 exhaust manifolds (actually '69 windsor manifolds)
-C4 auto trans with a mild shift-kit
-body mostly intact and no major damage
-Doors open and close ok
-Drives ok but needs suspension and steering work, looks like front-end has a few new parts.


PICS!!


BODY AND PAINT DURING...











ENGINE AFTER A TON OF WORK!...











ENGINE COMPARTMENT BEFORE...



ENGINE DURING...






Problems I found in the first few weeks...

-no thermostat installed
-no fan-shroud
-wrong balance on flywheel
-wrong distributor gear
-worn out u-joints
-idler arm loose at frame
-brake shoes cracked
-fuel sending unit bad
-tires shot
-weatherstripping shot
-cooling system is marginal
-toe-boards are rusting through
-exhaust very old and restrictive (rusty 2" dual with old-style turbo-mufflers)
-trunk lock sucks
-doors keyed differently
-interior bad, seat frames shot
-intake manifold leaking
-passenger quarter panel possibly been replaced and doesn't line up with door properly
-crappy aftermarket ratchet shifter that's falling apart
-crappy gear-drive is noisy as hell and something doesn't sound that good in there
-Upper control arms show severe damage, both cracked where spring perch mounts
-has 6-cylinder steering components
-front clip has cracking in front of Lower control arms
-radiator support crooked, repaired poorly
-looks like maybe the car went over a center-divide at one time, underneath is pretty scarred up but fixable, unibody appears straight

A few months into it...

-gear-Drive vibration loosened up the camshaft retaining bolts
-camshaft to walk into the front cover
-lifters began to pump-down and fail
-harmonic balancer slipped/spitting out rubber damper
-oil pan gasket wasn't installed correctly
-camshaft WAY TOO BIG for 1.7 rockers, total cam lift was exceeding .547
-valve-springs were binding
-3 valve-springs were cracked
-under-hood wiring needs gutted


What I've done/replaced so far... (Updated as I go) (SEE PICS BELOW!!)

-new distributor gear
-2007 6-cylinder 16" wheels
-new U-Joints
-new flywheel
-new starter
-new Holley 650 Double-Pumper
-custom Edelbrock air cleaner
-Nascar Select cap
-MSD specific rotor
-Autolite R26 plugs
-Ford Motorsport wires
-new Summit 2-core aluminum radiator
-Flex-a-lite low-boy 16" electric fan
-175-195 degree thermo-switch for fan
-180 degree thermostat
-new Holley red electric fuel pump
-GT rear valance
-3" exhaust tips
-purchased all new trim pieces, grill, bumpers, lock cylinders, etc.
-new brake shoes
-turned drums
-tightened up steering
-lowered front (cut coils)
-new upper and lower control arms/bushings/ball-joints
-new fuel sending unit
-used pony rear seat
-new Kragen racing bucket seats
-rebuilt and installed factory shifter in place of old junk ratchet shifter
-cleaned and painted interior of floorboards
-custom exhaust system with all 2.5" thick-wall pipe and h-pipe
-new Flowtech long-tube headers
-used 2-chamber 40-series Flowmasters
-351W cylinder heads with 6-angle valve job, back-cut swirl-polished and undercut one-piece stainless valves (yes 6 angles total), fully ported and polished runners, bowls, with polished chambers
-new Crane 2031 camshaft (.513/.529 lift with approximately 270-280 duration on a 112 LSA, for use with 1.7 rockers)
-new Comp Cams double-roller timing chain
-new water pump
-new Summit Pro-Street harmonic balancer
-battery hold-down kit
-new battery cables
-rewired everything under the hood and installed relays for fan and fuel pump
-repainted engine bay gloss black
-repainted engine cast-iron grey
-replaced front valance with new
-replaced r/h headlamp bucket with new
-replaced both headlamp doors with good/used
-replaced rock-guard with good/used
-replaced passenger door with good/used
-replaced hood with good/used


Thanks goes out to ARC Automotive Technology Shop (PATC Program) for what I've been able to accomplish so far. I've only had this thing for a few months and she's coming together nicely!

Scroll down to my next posts for more pics!

[ February 25, 2009, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...













CYLINDER HEADS AFTER...




 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

CYLINDER HEADS DURING...








 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

CYLINDER HEADS DURING CONT'D...













CYLINDER HEADS BEFORE...





[ December 18, 2008, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

ENGINE BEFORE...

oops! pan gasket was INSIDE the pan, must have slipped during installation by previous mechanic's installation. UNBELIEVABLE




Lame gear-drive, actually made cam retainer bolts back out at least 1/4" and cam was walking into the cover.


...before picture but after replacing the carb and air cleaner and cleaning things up a bit. Note the rust here and there, it was a lot worse when I bought it. Personally I like the new look MUCH better.


EXHAUST SYSTEM AFTER...







[ December 18, 2008, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

EXHAUST SYSTEM DURING...









EXHAUST SYSTEM BEFORE...



[ December 18, 2008, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

SUSPENSION AFTER...







SUSPENSION DURING...











[ December 18, 2008, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

SUSPENSION BEFORE...









INTERIOR DURING...









[ December 18, 2008, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Pics Continued...

INTERIOR DURING CONTINUED...

(Glad to see that crappy shifter go)





INTERIOR BEFORE...





[ December 18, 2008, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
looks good. BTW the fuel pump you have needs to be mounted back by the tank. They work much better as a pusher than a puller.
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Body and paint cont'd

















[ January 24, 2009, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 




[ January 25, 2009, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
MORE PICS COMING SOON! (RESERVED)

[ December 18, 2008, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
MORE PICS COMING SOON! (RESERVED)

[ December 18, 2008, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
MORE PICS COMING SOON! (RESERVED)

[ December 18, 2008, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
MORE PICS COMING SOON! (RESERVED)

[ December 18, 2008, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
looks good. BTW the fuel pump you have needs to be mounted back by the tank. They work much better as a pusher than a puller.

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Thanks for the heads-up on the Fuel pump. I will move it back there once I get the rear half of the car rewired. For now it's doing a fine job and I will be remounting it "motor on top" and possibly a bit lower.

[ December 18, 2008, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by 8stang8 (Member # 8082) on :
 
Yeah that fuel pump ... besides being closer to the tank and below the tank bro, it also should be mounted verically... the top of the electric motor facing upwards.

seems like you came along way whats w/ the paint what color you gonna spray it???

like the wheels too havent seen those being used that much
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Yup. got it. I just stuck it there to get the thing running once I found out the mechanical fuel pump excentric was the wrong one.

It got me from point a to b. I'll be remounting it correctly here in a few days. Thanks for the tips guys! Happy Holidays!
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Oops! Battery went dead tonight, looks like I'm going to have to get rid of the little battery I have and get a high-amp alternator.
 

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Posted by 427 StRoKeR SN94 (Member # 8722) on :
 
its look good cummin together nice
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 427 StRoKeR SN94:
its look good cummin together nice

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Thanks! Definitely a work in progress, now I need to get all my extra parts sold so I can buy a good alternator and battery...lol.

Anyone want a good set of '85 roller heads with low miles, minor port job, and larger valves, a Holley mechanical fuel pump, or a custom-grind roller cam? ..CHEAP!
 

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Posted by 92stangLX (Member # 3252) on :
 
Nice project. You've definitely put a lot of work into it
 

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Posted by 92_5.0 (Member # 7624) on :
 
those 07' V6 wheels look really nice on that year,(IMO), this is the first time i've seen that combo, great choice bro
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Nice project. You've definitely put a lot of work into it

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Thanks! Too bad she's down right now awaiting a good alternator and battery. Someone want to buy all my extra parts so I can get her back on the road for X-mas?
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 92_5.0:
those 07' V6 wheels look really nice on that year,(IMO), this is the first time i've seen that combo, great choice bro

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quote:

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Originally posted by eastoaklandss:
good job... looks like you know what your doin!

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+1..da heads look very good too..good luck

[ December 20, 2008, 05:24 AM: Message edited by: welch93lx ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by welch93lx:

quote:

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Originally posted by eastoaklandss:
good job... looks like you know what your doin!

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+1..da heads look very good too..good luck

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quote:

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Originally posted by wilit:
Sweet project man. How many coils did you cut off the springs? Looks like 1 full coil?

Also, you said in the original post you had ported '85 heads, but the pic you have shows a D8OE casting, that's a '78 part number. No big deal, as the D8OE and E5TE's have a 69cc combustion chamber, but just an FYI.

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Thanks! I cut off 1.5 coils total. There are 2 pieces there because I started with 1 and decided to cut off .5 more.

Good eye for detail but you'll see the E5 heads are in the "before" pics and the '78 heads are in the "after" pics. ORIGINALLY the car came with the E5 heads. The '78 heads are fully ported 351 W heads that I recently installed.

There wasn't anything wrong with the E5 heads and as a matter of fact I'm selling them cheap for $100.

Funny story how that came about. I actually thought the E5 heads were E6 heads originally, so I bought the ported D8 ones before I pulled the heads off the motor.

Once I pulled them off I was a little frustrated that I took em off but happy to see that I didn't have E6's ...(The worst heads Ford ever made).

It wasn't a total waste as the heads still needed to come off so I could check out the pistons and such. I seriouosly would have ran the E5 heads as-is though had I known they were in such good shape, having had a mild port and larger valves.

Oh well, it all worked out and I ended up with a great finished product. It was a great experience doing the valve job on the '78 heads also. ..It's been over 12 years since I've done any valve machining so it brought back some good memories.

The '78 heads I decided to use were already ported and polished with undercut one-piece stainless valves. They just needed a basic valve job before being bolted on. They will flow WAY BETTER so I decided to use em. Stock to stock they are basically the same head as the '85's though as you said.

[ December 23, 2008, 04:34 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by phat50 (Member # 1998) on :
 


[ December 25, 2008, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: phat50 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Got it up and running again folks!


-Battery Choice

... Optima Red-Top


-Alternator Choice

... 1988 5.0 Mustang/T-Bird 75 Amp Internally Regulated Alternator


Cost = $100 out the door for alternator and new factory Ford style connectors. $170 for the Optima


Concerns and questions I had to consider...

... First off what's going to be cost effective?
... Alternator fitment late model to early?
... 80-90-100-140 Amp ALT versus common 75 amp?
... Internally regulated versus external?
... Wiring modifications, etc?


Either a 45 or 60 amp externally regulated alternator came stock in '65. You had a choice of the 2. It's hard to tell which one you have. I probably had the 45 considering how quick it objected to the new accessories.

Originally I wanted to use a 90 or 100 amp but I found out those alternators are HUGE in size! The casing is 1/4 bigger in size at least. I measured it out and I would need to completely redo all of my pulleys and brackets just to get the thing to fit and line up, and I can forget about my factory dipstick tube clearance.

So I thought about all of this first.
(Usually a good idea)

I'm just going to have to use an alternator with the same small case as the 45-60 amp.

I researched my options and found out quickly that anything over 80 amps, factory or aftermarket, all have a HUGE case.

During my research I found a few 80 amp options that "might" have been a small-case but they were all special-order. No one had one and I couldn't actually put my hands on one to make sure of it's size. So I wasn't going to risk it.

I kept landing on the later model 75 amp alternator from a 1988 or so 5.0 (T-Bird and Mustang) as being the most common and highest amperage in the small case. It has exactly the same dimensions and bolt-up as my old '65 style and they are plentiful, cheap, and are internally regulated for easier wiring.

I did the math on my circuitry and decided 75 amps is good enough for my application. I gave up the idea of the gargantuan 100+ Amp setup and decided to go with the more common. All I have extra on my car is the electric fan and electric fuel pump. Total amperage draw combined is about 25 amps max. Add that to the stock 45 amp alternator and viola! I'm in the ballpark with some to spare. I don't plan to add any serious sound systems in the future either so the 75 amp should work.

The installation of the 75 amp 5.0 alternator was pretty basic. The modifications included zapping off the serpentine belt pulley and install my v-belt pulley. (Auto parts store did this for me and it fit fine). I needed the 2 pig-tail electrical plugs for the later model alternator and I found one at Napa and one at Auto Zone. Total cost for the connectors was about $15 plus the gas from store to store. I did have to do a little dinging to my dipstick tube as the back of the alternator was a hair deeper but this was minimal.

I used the wiring diagram below in combination with a little wiring wizardry of my own to get it all wired up (pretty basic actually). I bypassed the stock regulator all together as this one has the regulator attached to the back. (Ford's rendition of an internally regulated alternator) The only wire I needed to cut into and reuse from the original regulator harness was the idiot light wire for the dash. (just because I like things to be right) Everything else was cake and I just ran new wires from the connectors to the battery, etc.

I managed to get everything installed in less than a few hours including rewiring and my pocket book isn't too stressed.


Here's the wiring diagrams I used to wire it all up.






[ December 25, 2008, 06:51 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Ran the car today for at least 2-3 hours with all accessories on, sitting at idle. Everything is great so far. Headlights didn't dim at all, starts right up and the battery seems to have plenty of reserve. I don't have a volt meter hooked up right now so I can't be 100% sure but so far so good.

Success!

Happy Holidays everyone!

[ December 25, 2008, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
NOW ON TO SOME TUNING!!

Latest tinkering...

Installed the proper "steel" distributor gear in place of the brass one that had worn out making my timing a little irratic. Very noticeable difference in performance.

Recurved the MSD distributor with the MSD recurve kit.

Used the lightest-weight springs (silver) and smallest (red) stop-bushing so I get maximum timing soonest and the most at 2800.

I haven't checked it with a light yet but it's close and about as far advanced as it can handle

(used the trusty "power-tune" method, 3k rpms and advance until misfire and back off a tad until it runs smooth and responds well)

According to MSD that choice of springs and stop-bushing should result in 36-38 degrees total advance at 2800 rpm, with 10 degrees initial, at about 750 rpm, and the timing starts increasing at about 850 rpm with a fairly steep incline.

RESULTS:

..No detonation/pinging so far and it loves it! Very responsive off-idle and torque across the board! I'm going to need a posi and some good tires for sure. If I'm not careful it just lights the tires up through first and second from a 30mph roll.

This motor has great potential. Once I get this thing completely dialed in I'm going to have to dyno it and see what's up.

Very happy so far!

[ January 06, 2009, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by bwkelley76:
Installed the proper "steel" distributor gear in place of the brass one that had worn out...

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quote:

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Originally posted by JohnB:

quote:

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Originally posted by bwkelley76:
Installed the proper "steel" distributor gear in place of the brass one that had worn out...

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Please tell me you changed the oil afterwards...

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quote:

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Originally posted by 1FAST89GT:
so did u just do a head job and cam or did u do anything to the lower end hense engine build?

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Freshening up the lower end came to mind but I didn't have the time or money last semester. More to come though. I may tear a little more into it if the funds come available and I do have a few ideas.

The lower-end was salvageable for now so I'm planning on making it useful until I sort some other things out on the car.
 

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Posted by 306MAVERICK (Member # 7831) on :
 
Man seein that makes me miss my 65 stang. Nice car,I like how you painted the valve covers,they actually look better painted.
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 306MAVERICK:
Man seein that makes me miss my 65 stang. Nice car,I like how you painted the valve covers,they actually look better painted.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 91MSDFox:
What school did you/are you attending?

Overall Good Program?

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ARC "American River College" main campus in Sacramento. I'm getting my smog license currently (almost done) and then on to my general ed for mechanical engineering, hoping to transfer to Davis or Sac State for my Masters. I've taken many courses over the years at other colleges including factory Ford, Chrysler, and GM courses as well as Industrial Ed, Welding, and Collision Repair. (Don't ask me to do body work though...lol) I have well over 10 years of dealership experience as a line-tech. Now I'm moving on to diagnosis and have strayed from the dealerships all together. Just not happy with the politics, etc.

Yes they have a very good automotive program at ARC, especially for a community college. They offer all of the BAR classes for emissions and ASE certification alternative courses as well as an automotive analysis certificate curriculum that is outstanding. They have 2 emissions dynos and one in-ground non-emissions dyno. The smog referee station is moving into the shop over winter break also.

I haven't been to Mather Field yet to look at the facilities there. They have bio-diesel, collision repair, and a few other things out there and it's supposed to be a huge facility.

The project class I'm taking for the Mustang is called "Speed and Skill Development". I'm taking it just for fun and it's only offered for advanced students. It's a "fun" class and it's their way of paying students back for their participation and experience in automotive. ..You basically just need automotive experience (1+ year I think) and you get to play with your own project car on Fridays from 7:30 am until 2pm.

[ January 08, 2009, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Started the body work (See Pics!)

replaced the passenger door with good/used straight piece. Replaced the r/f headlight bucket, replaced the hood with a good/used straight piece.

R/F fender has a crack in it and a stretched area, but not too bad, going to fix it.

I tried bolting on 3 different new aftermarket fenders and they were no where close to fitting!
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Body work is coming along real nice. Sanded through to metal in most areas, looks like 2-3 paint jobs worth, not bad. Minor amount of filler was found, no rust or cancer, started flowing a thin layer of filler on the r/r quarter and back panel. r/r quarter was a little wavy but no major issues yet.

[ January 25, 2009, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
HEADER SWAP

Swapped out the Flow-Tech full-length 1.5" primary headers for Hedman Mid-Length 1 5/8" primary headers. Had to extend and reshape the head-pipes with mandrel bent tubing.

RESULTS: Gained over 2-3" of ground clearance, no more bottoming out on speed-bumps and driveways, sounds much deeper throatier, better power and response, much happier with this setup...














 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
Car is now For Sale, I just acquired 2 more projects and I'm outta money! Selling it cheap and need cash fast. :0(

(ad is in classifieds)

latest pics











[ February 27, 2009, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: bwkelley76 ]
 

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Posted by bwkelley76 (Member # 8792) on :
 
SOLD! Stay tuned for the next 2 projects! ..you know me, lots of pics, etc. lol

[ March 01, 2009, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: JohnB ]
 

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