cam gurus please help, cam swap on a budget? - Northern California Ford Owners

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Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

i have done.....

ecam
afr 165 heads
equal length headers no cats and 1 chambers
ported upper and lower
75mm tb
jlt cai
fpr

i think thats it.

anyway, im tired of my e cam. i want my car to run better, sound better and pull more to like 6,000rpm not die at like 5k like my Ecam

im thinking maybe like crower, crane, lunati? i know i need better springs for custom and comp cams so that wont happen any time soon.

im on a budget so i wanna know what cam u guys recommend that i can get and just swap out with out having to change springs, locks, seals, and retainers cuz i know that is pricey. im thinking my ford racing lifters, cloyes timing chain, stock cobra rocker, and afr valvetrain should be good enough to handle a cam that is better than a Ecam

so whats a good cam and if i have to change anything what do i need?

[ October 15, 2008, 03:48 PM: Message edited by: F8LSN8K ]

Posted by svfreerider87 (Member # 5748) on :

f-303.

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

eh.....the hell with alphabet cams. i need something good [Big Grin]

Posted by svfreerider87 (Member # 5748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
eh.....the hell with alphabet cams. i need something good

if haulinassmotorsports matt ran a ten whatever the fuck with it, I see no reason to diss it. i loved the sound and power of mine. probably gonna pick another one up here shortly.

Posted by whitelx91 (Member # 8317) on :

I would definately go with something other then ford cams simply because there are better out there, but you cant go with much more lift on the stock bottom end. Try this trick folw cam (TFS-51402000) it not only utilizes a little more lift but more duration on the exhaust where ford motors are weak. I had this cam in my 306 and loved it, and you have plenty of spring height to run this cam simply swap it out. I would also suggest running a smaller T/B that 75mm may be hurting your power.

SuistyangS

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by svfreerider87:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
eh.....the hell with alphabet cams. i need something good
if haulinassmotorsports matt ran a ten whatever the fuck with it, I see no reason to diss it. i loved the sound and power of mine. probably gonna pick another one up here shortly.

u shoulda said that then [Razz]

Posted by SmokinLX (Member # 1684) on :

If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.

Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.

Ditto those springs are probably tired.

I have a tfs stage 2 cam for sale also...just a plug...but you would probably need to flycut..

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
I would definately go with something other then ford cams simply because there are better out there, but you cant go with much more lift on the stock bottom end. Try this trick folw cam (TFS-51402000) it not only utilizes a little more lift but more duration on the exhaust where ford motors are weak. I had this cam in my 306 and loved it, and you have plenty of spring height to run this cam simply swap it out. I would also suggest running a smaller T/B that 75mm may be hurting your power.

SuistyangS

i talked to Shuan about that cam, and he said it wouldnt do much more better than the Ecam

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.

well i bout the heads from someone on the site. they are double springs, are they upgraded? are the afr non upgraded springs single?

Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
I would definately go with something other then ford cams simply because there are better out there, but you cant go with much more lift on the stock bottom end. Try this trick folw cam (TFS-51402000) it not only utilizes a little more lift but more duration on the exhaust where ford motors are weak. I had this cam in my 306 and loved it, and you have plenty of spring height to run this cam simply swap it out. I would also suggest running a smaller T/B that 75mm may be hurting your power.

SuistyangS
i talked to Shuan about that cam, and he said it wouldnt do much more better than the Ecam

nothing that works with the valve springs you have now will be very different than an e-cam at all.

Posted by whitelx91 (Member # 8317) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
I would definately go with something other then ford cams simply because there are better out there, but you cant go with much more lift on the stock bottom end. Try this trick folw cam (TFS-51402000) it not only utilizes a little more lift but more duration on the exhaust where ford motors are weak. I had this cam in my 306 and loved it, and you have plenty of spring height to run this cam simply swap it out. I would also suggest running a smaller T/B that 75mm may be hurting your power.

SuistyangS
i talked to Shuan about that cam, and he said it wouldnt do much more better than the Ecam

Itll give you a little more rpm just like the f-cam just try keeping the lift under 520 and look more at the LSA or duration for more rpm. Also i assumed your heads were new maybe your springs are a little worn ive heard numerous downfalls on AFRs valvetrain. BTW my 306 with that trick flow cam and 1.6s pulled up towards 7000 rpm, and ran 12.20 with 9.1 compression. Keep this in mind all motors run different.

SuistangS

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

so regardless, probably good idea to do springs?

Posted by whitelx91 (Member # 8317) on :

Also AFR even recommends you upgrade there springs if you want more rpm, even that said hydraulic cams typically max out at around 6200 neways so your gonna need stiffer springs regardless if you want rpm. Also if you have adjustable rockers you preload them a little more for rpm.

SuistangS

Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
so regardless, probably good idea to do springs?

You need new springs.

It is not uncommon at all with AFRs. Are these older 165s? Pedestal mount?

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
so regardless, probably good idea to do springs?
Are these older 165s? Pedestal mount?

maybe, define older?

and yes pedestal

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

anyone know of a good valve spring kit that i can use that comes with retainers, locks, seals

or do i have to buy seperate?

Posted by whitelx91 (Member # 8317) on :

Try afr #8605 they say these should spin more then 6000 no problem

SuistangS

Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
so regardless, probably good idea to do springs?
Are these older 165s? Pedestal mount?
maybe, define older?

and yes pedestal

Older as in manufactured prior to 8/04

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
Try afr #8605 they say these should spin more then 6000 no problem

SuistangS

can i just change springs? what about the rest of the parts?

damnit im really hating cars right now! [Mad]

Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
Try afr #8605 they say these should spin more then 6000 no problem

SuistangS
can i just change springs? what about the rest of the parts?

damnit im really hating cars right now!

I see you on Norcal1320. Call Angie over at Dave's machine and have her set your heads up for you. She gives awesome deals and with a weekend of hard work and some gaskets/oil/coolant and plugs you will be on the way to making your 5 point slow run even harder!

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
so regardless, probably good idea to do springs?
Are these older 165s? Pedestal mount?
maybe, define older?

and yes pedestal
Older as in manufactured prior to 8/04

not sure man, how come?

Posted by 514 Mullet (Member # 7402) on :

There is only one correct way to get the right cam. Call professionals instead of asking random people who do not know themselves. As for suggesting an F cam, there is no comparison between these two engines. Matt sprayed that car into the 10's. Totally different animal.

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

I am really liking the XE comp HR cams. they won't work as well as a custom but you get nice power out of them plus the smaller ones will allow you to pass the Ca. smog test. With your set up I would be looking in the mid 260 adv duration area. that being said I actualy liked my E-cam.With the XE cams you need to know what valve springs you have to make sure they are compatible. Good luck.

Posted by whitelx91 (Member # 8317) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 514 Mullet:
There is only one correct way to get the right cam. Call professionals instead of asking random people who do not know themselves. As for suggesting an F cam, there is no comparison between these two engines. Matt sprayed that car into the 10's. Totally different animal.

Before you assume ppl dont know nething try opening a book yourself and dont get ahead of yourself. I might be a little gangsta if i say so myself! [BS flag]

SuistangS

[ October 15, 2008, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: whitelx91 ]

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

lol/\ yeah what he said.

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Blind:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
I would definately go with something other then ford cams simply because there are better out there, but you cant go with much more lift on the stock bottom end. Try this trick folw cam (TFS-51402000) it not only utilizes a little more lift but more duration on the exhaust where ford motors are weak. I had this cam in my 306 and loved it, and you have plenty of spring height to run this cam simply swap it out. I would also suggest running a smaller T/B that 75mm may be hurting your power.

SuistyangS
i talked to Shuan about that cam, and he said it wouldnt do much more better than the Ecam
nothing that works with the valve springs you have now will be very different than an e-cam at all.

What he said.

FYI, if you want a totally bad-ass camshaft that was designed to work with AFR's, longtubes, & an RPM intake.....I've got one at the shop.

Custom HiTech Motorsports camshaft 232/228 110LSA
(Will NOT pass smog & MUST have pistons notched to fit)
You'll most definately need new valvesprings, retainers, seats, & seals. You'll also have to ditch the crappy stock/crane 1.72 rocker arms for some quality pedistal mount units.

First in Camara90's 347 & made 380+RWHP (low 11's on DR's)
Next this cam was in AaronC's stock bottom end AFR165 setup with 1 &3/4 longtubes, Ported RPM intake & threw down 335RWHP with 180K miles on the stock shortblock.
His convertable ran basement 12's on street tires.

The cam is yours for $150.
But plan on spending another $159 on springs, $329 on Titainum retainers, $350 on quality rocker arms (like scorpians), $30 on seats, $25 on seals, $90 on a billet adjustable timing chain, & labor to notch the pistons......plus gaskets that you'll need to put it back together.

Posted by 514 Mullet (Member # 7402) on :

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:

quote:
Originally posted by 514 Mullet:
There is only one correct way to get the right cam. Call professionals instead of asking random people who do not know themselves. As for suggesting an F cam, there is no comparison between these two engines. Matt sprayed that car into the 10's. Totally different animal.
Before you assume ppl dont know nething try opening a book yourself and dont get ahead of yourself. SuistangS

So he should buy a cam based on your advice as opposed to calling people who do this for a living? Unless you grind cams for a living then maybe you need to ease off that statement. Theres a lot more to it than you think. Maybe you should open a book and take a look before you try selecting a cam for someone based on your opinion of cams.

[ October 15, 2008, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: 514 Mullet ]

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:

quote:
Originally posted by Blind:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:
I would definately go with something other then ford cams simply because there are better out there, but you cant go with much more lift on the stock bottom end. Try this trick folw cam (TFS-51402000) it not only utilizes a little more lift but more duration on the exhaust where ford motors are weak. I had this cam in my 306 and loved it, and you have plenty of spring height to run this cam simply swap it out. I would also suggest running a smaller T/B that 75mm may be hurting your power.

SuistyangS
i talked to Shuan about that cam, and he said it wouldnt do much more better than the Ecam
nothing that works with the valve springs you have now will be very different than an e-cam at all.
What he said.

FYI, if you want a totally bad-ass camshaft that was designed to work with AFR's, longtubes, & an RPM intake.....I've got one at the shop.

Custom HiTech Motorsports camshaft 232/228 110LSA
(Will NOT pass smog & MUST have pistons notched to fit)
You'll most definately need new valvesprings, retainers, seats, & seals. You'll also have to ditch the crappy stock/crane 1.72 rocker arms for some quality pedistal mount units.

First in Camara90's 347 & made 380+RWHP (low 11's on DR's)
Next this cam was in AaronC's stock bottom end AFR165 setup with 1 &3/4 longtubes, Ported RPM intake & threw down 335RWHP with 180K miles on the stock shortblock.
His convertable ran basement 12's on street tires.

The cam is yours for $150.
But plan on spending another $159 on springs, $329 on Titainum retainers, $350 on quality rocker arms (like scorpians), $30 on seats, $25 on seals, $90 on a billet adjustable timing chain, & labor to notch the pistons......plus gaskets that you'll need to put it back together.

pm sent

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

If you can afford it thats what I would do. I would not exactly call that budget...but budget buying is not usualy the best route. lol but sometimes it is the only route. That is a proven cam shaft. The only problem I see with that cam is uaualy after the people run that cam they fall off the CAford wagon(never to be heard from again). Kind of like finding the crystal skull,or opening King tuts coffin [Eek!]

lol

[ October 15, 2008, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
If you can afford it thats what I would do. I would not exactly call that budget...but budget buying is not usualy the best route. lol but sometimes it is the only route.

ya so far for the budget. gotta keep saving and do it once and do it right like Shuan told me. im tryna take short cuts to get faster but i guess its not gonna work. [Frown]

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
The only problem I see with that cam is uaualy after the people run that cam they fall off the CAford wagon(never to be heard from again). Kind of like finding the crystal skull,or opening King tuts coffin lol

That's why I haven't installed the cam in my car. LOL

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

I don't get it [Confused]

Posted by Pure Stang (Member # 7251) on :

i heard those anderson cams like the n41 or the 51hr are good cams. there are a few people with those cams and getting some real good numbers.

Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
I don't get it

Camara90 and AaronC were local CAFords (98cobra.com) legends. Both super impressive combos, drag racers. Then one day they fell off the face of the earth. It was a joke about running a cam that was in both their cars saying that you would be the next one to fall of the face of the earth.

[ October 16, 2008, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: FoX GT ]

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
I don't get it
Camara90 and AaronC were local CAFords (98cobra.com) legends. Both super impressive combos, drag racers. Then one day they fell off the face of the earth. It was a joke about running a cam that was in both their cars saying that you would be the next one to fall of the face of the earth.

OHHH!!! i see..... [Embarrassed]

no way that will happen to me, i'll still be around...and still be slow. [Frown]

LOL

so does that cam sound just as badass as the power it should make?

Posted by threethirty1 (Member # 7814) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.

My 185s do the same thing!..My builder went through my heads and said that the springs they were sufficent. But he was wrong...when i got my car dyno'd you can see it fall off @ around 5400. And you can really feel it while driving.
Did you pick up any power????

Did you gain any tenths??

What springs did you got with?

How can it be done with the heads on??

Posted by threethirty1 (Member # 7814) on :

thx [patriot]

Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by threethirty1:

quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.
My 185s do the same thing!..My builder went through my heads and said that the springs they were sufficent. But he was wrong...when i got my car dyno'd you can see it fall off @ around 5400. And you can really feel it while driving.
Did you pick up any power????

Did you gain any tenths??

What springs did you got with?

How can it be done with the heads on??

Post up your dyno graph or take a close look at it and you will see where the valve springs start to take a nose dive.

Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
I don't get it
Camara90 and AaronC were local CAFords (98cobra.com) legends. Both super impressive combos, drag racers. Then one day they fell off the face of the earth. It was a joke about running a cam that was in both their cars saying that you would be the next one to fall of the face of the earth.
OHHH!!! i see.....
no way that will happen to me, i'll still be around...and still be slow. LOL

so does that cam sound just as badass as the power it should make?

you will be happy with it. [burnout]

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:
I don't get it
Camara90 and AaronC were local CAFords (98cobra.com) legends. Both super impressive combos, drag racers. Then one day they fell off the face of the earth. It was a joke about running a cam that was in both their cars saying that you would be the next one to fall of the face of the earth.
OHHH!!! i see.....
no way that will happen to me, i'll still be around...and still be slow. LOL

so does that cam sound just as badass as the power it should make?
you will be happy with it.

that would be nice if it will sound like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcbOKLEOA6o

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by turbo50:

quote:
Originally posted by threethirty1:

quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.
My 185s do the same thing!..My builder went through my heads and said that the springs they were sufficent. But he was wrong...when i got my car dyno'd you can see it fall off @ around 5400. And you can really feel it while driving.
Did you pick up any power????

Did you gain any tenths??

What springs did you got with?

How can it be done with the heads on??
Post up your dyno graph or take a close look at it and you will see where the valve springs start to take a nose dive.

on my dyno sheet power takes a shit at 5,200

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by threethirty1:

quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
If You are only making power to 5,000 rpm then You most likely just need to change the vavle spring's. I was dropping power at 5200 rpm with My afr 185's "weak ass spring's unless You paid for the upgraded" and F cam & when I changed the spring's it rev's clean till 6,500 rpm redline. You should address this problem 1st & also with the rite tool it is possible to do the spring's with the head's on the car.
My 185s do the same thing!..My builder went through my heads and said that the springs they were sufficent. But he was wrong...when i got my car dyno'd you can see it fall off @ around 5400. And you can really feel it while driving.
Did you pick up any power????

What springs did you got with?

ditto

also what retainers, locks, seals? timing chain?

Posted by hard jokur (Member # 3360) on :

Willie

Save your pennies buddy...

here is a good read, Jay really knows his stuff.

Myth Topic #26 on SBFTech

Posted by whitelx91 (Member # 8317) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 514 Mullet:

quote:
Originally posted by whitelx91:

quote:
Originally posted by 514 Mullet:
There is only one correct way to get the right cam. Call professionals instead of asking random people who do not know themselves. As for suggesting an F cam, there is no comparison between these two engines. Matt sprayed that car into the 10's. Totally different animal.
Before you assume ppl dont know nething try opening a book yourself and dont get ahead of yourself. SuistangS
So he should buy a cam based on your advice as opposed to calling people who do this for a living? Unless you grind cams for a living then maybe you need to ease off that statement. Theres a lot more to it than you think. Maybe you should open a book and take a look before you try selecting a cam for someone based on your opinion of cams.

Im not telling him to go with what im telling him or neone else in here YOU assumed no one knew what they were talking about and yes i do know everything involved in selecting a cam that works for a particular engine it was simply my opinion, i didnt say "this is the best cam you should by it fuck everybody else" if you seen that then go buy some glasses nobody on here knows everything and im pretty sure you dont either so dont hop on this motherfucker like you know everybody were all here for the same reasons to get other ppls opinions. And yes calling professionals who do this all day everyday is the best thing to do so why didnt he do it, maybe cause he knows ppl on here who he can relate to a little easier so since you dont know me and i dont know you lets keep assumptions out of our mouths.

SuistangS

Posted by F8LSN8K (Member # 7080) on :

quote:
Originally posted by hard jokur:
Willie

Save your pennies buddy...

here is a good read, Jay really knows his stuff.

Myth Topic #26 on SBFTech

says off limits. maybe cuz im new

Posted by turbo50 (Member # 6700) on :

quote:
Originally posted by F8LSN8K:

quote:
Originally posted by hard jokur:
Willie

Save your pennies buddy...

here is a good read, Jay really knows his stuff.

Myth Topic #26 on SBFTech
says off limits. maybe cuz im new

Sign up over there and look around.

Anyway the older AFRs had the 8020 springs on them and they are know for having issues.

You need to change the springs IMHO.

[ October 17, 2008, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: turbo50 ]

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