Hi. New Member (5.0XR4) - Northern California Ford Owners

This is topic Hi. New Member (5.0XR4) in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners .

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Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

Hi All,

Friend of mine suggested I join here. GOOD Site!!!

He actually suggested joining because I have a Lightning for sale, but I don't think its all that cool to make a first post to sell something. So, a little about myself:

I'm an Old Fart. Used to race a little. Between my Dad, and myself, I've had almost 25 Fords, mostly all "high performance." Including, '71 Shelby GT350, '66 Fastback 289, 2 SHO's, Lightnings... everything but a Mustang Cobra. And, a few German cars.

Used to be a Mercedes & Volvo mechanic, so I do all my own work.

I've owned many XR4Ti's. My latest I dropped a 5.0L into, eventually for occasional road racing). The 5.0 is purely stock, to get approved by the Smog Referee (it is street legal now). But, I've got a balanced 5.0L, w/ AFR 185's, 30 & 40lbs injectors, GT40 tubular intake, 1.7 rockers, etc., etc., to drop in once I get the suspension finished.

Suspension is ALL Ford Motorsport Group N and BTCC from Andy Rouse in UK. But, that puts me in a non-stock class for anything in NASA. A couple years ago, NASA would have only allowed me to participate in HPDE, or "Unlimited." So, I decided to drop in the 5.0, because I wasn't going to NOT use the suspensions.

Anyway, now NASA has come out with a new German car classes, categorized only by Rear HP/TQ to body weight. So, its basically open to whatever you want to do, depending on your budget.

Haven't figured out how to post personal pics, but here's a shot of it from another group's photo albums:

More pics here:

http://autos.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/XR4-Xtreme/photos/browse/4676

John

[ February 21, 2008, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: 5.0XR4 ]

Posted by Notch1320 (Member # 2647) on :

Interesting build... welcome to the board.

Posted by SmokinLX (Member # 1684) on :

Alway's nice to have another member [patriot]

. Look's like a nice little project You have going there [Wink]

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

Thanks. Yeah, its a good combo for a car which only weighs 2780lbs, less with FG body pieces. The other long block, w/ the AFR's and GT40 intake will actually weigh less than the original 2.3L Turbo. Those things are bullet proof, but they're a LOT of iron.

How do you like your '02 F-250? I've got an '04, like the 6.0L, but thinking I'd rather have kept the 7.3L.

[ February 21, 2008, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: 5.0XR4 ]

Posted by Notch1320 (Member # 2647) on :

My 02 7.3 is a beast! I love the truck, and the power with all the mods. I really need to move up to a Dually soon, but for now, it suits me just fine. Do you have anything done to yours?

Do you have any 2.3 Turbo stuff laying around? I am looking for a few things for my SVO drag car project...

Posted by 70mach351 (Member # 7528) on :

you had a 71 shelby i would love to see a picture of that. thought 69 was the last year and they sold the leftover 69's as 70's.

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

70mach351. You're right... IIRC, Shelby stopped production at the end of '69, and whatever was left over was sold as "1970." My Dad bought it from Hertz @ SFO as a used 12000 miler.

What I recall is that it was a '70, but Hertz bought several of them late in '70 directly from Ford/Shelby (they'd already learned about guys renting and racing). Whether it was a question of production date, or some agreement between Hertz and Ford/Shelby, it became registered by Hertz in CA as a '71.

Could be wrong. I am an old fart. But there was something unique about Hertz's fleet purchase of those, and 1971 which was odd enough at that time that I always remembered it.

Got to drive it a few times, but only w/ supervision because I'd just got my permit around that time. Lot of fun, but I never cared for the grill & front layout as much as the earlier ones. Thought they could have made it a lot cooler, more race-derived, not a shark's mouth high up off the road. Not really thought of it as a "Shelby," but a nice car for an automatic. NASA scoops on the hood were a cool touch. Nobody else but racers and race car designers were using those back then.

Notch, what are you looking for in particular? Most of my stuff was/s more specific to the Merkur, but I may have some useful 2.3L stuff.

I love my 6.0L, but I hate all the reflashing. Got 18mpg my first two tankfuls, then had to take it back to Ford for that mandated 2004 reflash, and its got crap mileage ever since.

[ February 21, 2008, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: 5.0XR4 ]

Posted by Notch1320 (Member # 2647) on :

Just curious as to what type of performance things you might have left... Mustang specific stuff, or performance parts that I could use on my SVO.

The 6.0 has had it's issues. Check out:
www.thedieselstop.com Great site for everything Powerstroke related.

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

2.3L = Front mount & Cossie Intercoolers; gutted upper intakes, ready for rotation and welding; large TB's, Vane meters, maybe an LA3 computer; K&N conical filter, engine mounts... Don't know, haven't done an inventory for a while. Had a Merkur swap meet here in the summer and sold stuff.

Got some 5.0L stuff, like A/C eliminator bracket; underdrive pulleys ('85-'92), tall Motorsport AL valve covers, stock injectors. Have a complete FMS kit for crate engine, that includes a new pan, new water pump, damper, dipstick, etc.. Maybe a set of slightly scratched chrome valve covers (don't know if they'll fit over my 1.7 rockers).

DieselStop is a good site. So's FordTruckEnthusiast. I haven't had any of the problems most guys had with the early 6.0Ls; I have a friend who's run a lot of the Ford Parts departments around the Bay Area, so I took his advice and waited a year or so after the 6.0s came out, before taking the dive.

Only had a couple of problems. My production date was Sept., '04, and they'd pretty much changed stuff over on the line by then (e.g., 25K psi injectors, revised intake, better rear main seals, etc.). Only real problem I had was a bad turbo, but Ford took care of that quickly.

My only bitch is the reflash which blew my mileage. In that regards, this isn't the truck I thought I was buying for almost $50K. I'm not the only one complaining about it, but I guess 15-16 overall mpg with a 4x43 construction truck, and hauling 9000GVW most of the time is still pretty good. Damn site better than owning a rust-bucket-waiting-to-happen-Chevy. [Smile]

That, and it seems that every reflash is cumulative, meaning no matter how good or bad the results have been, almost all the reflashes are continuations of the earlier versions. If they tried one correction and it didn't work well, instead of starting over, they just leave that bad reflash in there, and add another patch to fix that. And another. Plus the "new" reflash to fix something else.

You'd think if they were smart, they'd just go through a complete PCM reprogramming from scratch, test the heck out of it over the last 3 years, then just reflash everybody at the same time. No bogus residual performance problems from the other reflash programs, no correcting-patches, etc..

But, that's just me. I'm not one of the "penny-wise, pound foolish" bean counters and MBA's which Ford likes hiring in Dearborn.

Posted by Notch1320 (Member # 2647) on :

I may be interested in the gutted upper, larger TB. I am going to be doing a rotated upper, and a 7.3 Powerstroke Intercooler this summer. I swapped to a 6.0 in my truck. Do you have any larger injectors, or a chip at all? I have a HY35 Holset, but a stock fuel system besides a adj reg, and a 190 pump.... for now!

I am out of the country until May, but will hit you up when I get back from this deployment, and maybe we can work something out.

Posted by Pure Stang (Member # 7251) on :

welcome john! [patriot]

...seems like you know your stuff [burnout]

Posted by 50DADDY (Member # 3076) on :

Welcome to the board.This is a really cool site,almost every performance part ive bought in the last few years came off here.Plus ive met tons of really cool people here too,its kinda like a family.Of course ive met a few royal assholes here to but theyre the few and far between. [patriot]

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

Thanks you guys. Not sure I know all that much compared from what I've read on this board, but when you've done enough (8) XR4Ti mods, you pick up some info now and then.

Notch... thanks for serving! Just keep in touch, I pick up stuff all the time.

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

Notch1320, as far as the injectors, going to the disc-type upgrades & 4 hole sprayer is enough for what most guys max out with their 2.3Ls. Provided that you're using a Walbro 255gpm pump, and an adjustable FPR. You can make stock 35's act like 45's with some adjustments, you'll just kill your idle emissions.

If you need them, I've got good extras of just about every sensor and actuator used on 2.3's, including TFI's.

Posted by Notch1320 (Member # 2647) on :

I plan on seeing what I can do with the stock T-3 and fuel system as it sits now. I will PM you what I have now, and what I plan to do, and maybe you could offer some insight?

Posted by BlackNGold (Member # 655) on :

Awesome, another XR on here!....

We gotta hook up some time!...I just got mine back on the road...Stock engine with RS500 replica intercooler/radiator, 3" exhuast, you know the usual Merk shit...I have a few suspension mods too...MCA diff mount, Bilsteins, BAT springs and some other things....

I raced my old 94 GT in a few NASA races, but as it was my daily driver, I never went much further....I thought about the 5.0 conversion in the Merk, But I didn't wanna mess with all the smog B/S....

Glad you're here!!...

Posted by uh0h50 (Member # 3125) on :

welcome to the board.. sounds like a hell of a merk you have there.. want another one? i have one im looking to get rid of for very cheap.

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

LOL! OK, its the new guy, let's see if he's a buyer. [Smile]

uhOh50, wasn't actually thinking about it, but its an addiction, ya' know? Interested, but not really in the market for another one. You can try Craigslist, a lot of the local XR guys are always checking there, or if you give me some info, I can post for you to Bay Area Merkur Owners group (BAMO), or you could join that.

BlackNGold, I PM'd you back.

Posted by jaejae (Member # 7958) on :

hello...what does a good 2.3 turbo engine go for?

Posted by uh0h50 (Member # 3125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 5.0XR4:
LOL! OK, its the new guy, let's see if he's a buyer.

uhOh50, wasn't actually thinking about it, but its an addiction, ya' know? Interested, but not really in the market for another one. You can try Craigslist, a lot of the local XR guys are always checking there, or if you give me some info, I can post for you to Bay Area Merkur Owners group (BAMO), or you could join that.

BlackNGold, I PM'd you back.

hahaha dammit you know me too well already.. just kidding man. i'll make a post pretty soon about it, poor thing is just sitting in my backyard..

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

What does a good 2.3L go for? Tough one. W/O trying to sound like a smartass, it depends on the condition, and mods the previous owner(s) made. You can often find a pulled one with 100K+ miles from a TBird, or other, for $150-$200, but you don't know the condition. Or you can pay $1400+ for one with a refreshed block, big valve heads, ported intake, custom exhaust manifold, etc.

Remember, even if you find one that's been sitting in a garage for 6 years, these turbo 2.3L are almost 20 years now. The blocks are bulletproof, and very well "seasoned" by this point with all the heat cycles. BUT, its the heads which develop problems.

You may get a deal for $200, and you might be able to just drop it in and go have fun. But, if you're serious about what you're putting in your car, just doing a compression check isn't enough. You'll be taking it apart to one degree or another, to find out what needs what.

Everytime you take off the heads on one of these, you release the tension, and any cracks in the exhaust seat areas will open up.

Plan on adding another $75 for Magnafluxing, $50-75 per weld to fix the cracks. And, you'll probably have 3 or 4 cracks. Add in the installation of new seat(s), 3 angle grinds on the seat and its valve, if not complete replacements of all the valves and seats, and you're in the $550-$600 range. Your investment is now at least $750.

On the other hand, guys run these heads for years, with cracks, and don't have major problems. Or, don't even know the heads are cracked. The high heat tends to close the cracks up when the metal expands, and for the most part you don't notice any performance drop, ONCE THE ENGNE'S WARM. What that means for passing smog depends on how hot you can keep the engine prior to the tech getting it on the dyno.

Even if you can get a real find, 100K not abused, you want to check on the springs and hydraulic tappets (lifters). You may be adding another $200-250 for stock replacements. If you do your own work.

So, my point is, you can find one cheap, but who knows what it really costs you.

Posted by jaejae (Member # 7958) on :

oo i c...hmm...ill jus stick with the 5.0...maybe 2.3t later on

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

Don't get me wrong... The 2.3L is great option, and sometimes you just get really lucky finding one that runs like a top, and doesn't require anything.

I also know guys who thought it was going to be half as complicated and half as expensive as a V8, just because its half the number of cylinders. And, in a sense, that's true. But, you should have your eyes wide open before you commit to any project you don't have experience with. That's all I'm saying, not that its a bad idea.

Posted by uh0h50 (Member # 3125) on :

pm sent 5.0XR4 [patriot]

Posted by nor*cal93ssp (Member # 3884) on :

Welcome John..always nice to add another mature and well knowledged enthusiast to our forum! [patriot]

there's alot of kids and dumbshits on this site that think they know it all or are just plain idiots but for the most part still a good amount car crazed owners with helpful information..besides that..welcome again!

[ February 25, 2008, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: nor*cal93ssp ]

Posted by 5.0XR4 (Member # 8229) on :

nor*cal... we both know that if you've got half a brain, and a lot of experience, the only thing you know for sure is that you don't know much at all.

If somebody wants the benefit of my knowledge, I'm happy to share. But, life's too short to waste it arguing with a knucklehead who's so insecure they MUST believe they know it all after only a couple years' experience. They won't let you prove them wrong, because that would leave them with nothing. So, the more you prove, the harder they dig in. Kinda' like ticks.

Posted by nor*cal93ssp (Member # 3884) on :

nicely said. [Big Grin]

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