quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:
Just throwing this in here, but for the price of a 2003/4 cobra motor you might be able to get a pretty decent dart blocked, 8.2 decked 331 or 347 combo going...just food for thought...

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quote:

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Originally posted by kingmoochr:

quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:
Just throwing this in here, but for the price of a 2003/4 cobra motor you might be able to get a pretty decent dart blocked, 8.2 decked 331 or 347 combo going...just food for thought...

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having a dart 347 built might cost the same as an entire cobra swap with trans, but add in the cost of swapping into a modular, and the fact it wont be able to smog, and it seems downright retarded.

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With cats and the rest of the emissions stuff on I don't see it as a problem The only fabrication that I am aware of would be a 5.0 k-member(modded motor mounts or just get an aftermarket k-member) and the wiring. If they are going by the vin number of his GT for smogging then the likelihood of him passing smog would be about the same as if he had a 347. Cobra motor puts out way more emissions then a modular gt so you sort of end up in the same situation. I thought new cobra motors were in the $11k range (yes more then a dart 347 block)???? Not sure on the prices on the cobra motors..I could be wrong...unless they dropped prices?

[ January 09, 2008, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
 

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Posted by Adam5.0 (Member # 6995) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:

quote:

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Originally posted by kingmoochr:

quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:
Just throwing this in here, but for the price of a 2003/4 cobra motor you might be able to get a pretty decent dart blocked, 8.2 decked 331 or 347 combo going...just food for thought...

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having a dart 347 built might cost the same as an entire cobra swap with trans, but add in the cost of swapping into a modular, and the fact it wont be able to smog, and it seems downright retarded.

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With cats and the rest of the emissions stuff on I don't see it as a problem The only fabrication that I am aware of would be a 5.0 k-member and the wiring. If they are going by the vin number of his GT for smogging then the likelihood of him passing smog would be about the same as if he had a 347. Cobra motor puts out way more emissions then a modular gt so you sort of end up in the same situation. I thought new cobra motors were in the $11k range (yes more then a dart 347 block)???? Not sure on the prices on the cobra motors..I could be wrong...unless they dropped prices?

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cant put an older motor in a newer car. 5.0 k member just dont bolt in.
 

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Posted by CobramanPhil (Member # 2170) on :
 
[/qb][/QUOTE]cant put an older motor in a newer car. 5.0 k member just dont bolt in. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Been there..done that
 

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Posted by kingmoochr (Member # 5834) on :
 
let me clarify. according to the california air resources board, you can NOT replace the motor in any vehicle with one produced before the vehicle and continue to be smog legal. is that better?
 

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Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by kingmoochr:
let me clarify. according to the california air resources board, you can NOT replace the motor in any vehicle with one produced before the vehicle and continue to be smog legal. is that better?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Blind:

quote:

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Originally posted by kingmoochr:
let me clarify. according to the california air resources board, you can NOT replace the motor in any vehicle with one produced before the vehicle and continue to be smog legal. is that better?

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unless you modify it so that motor is able to pass smog with all equipment the vehicle used stock.

it's either the motor or the car, whichever is newer, that you must smog it as.

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I have no claims on being an expert on what is smog legal or not. Wouldn't a dart block constitute a "new motor". If you wanted to get nitty and gritty about the whole thing the dart motor would actually be "newer" then a new cobra motor from ford. Does CARB specify that the design of the motor must be of a newer or different design (ie modular as compared to a pushrod motor) when replacing the motor in a car that came OEM with a modular motor? If not then I see lots and lots of loopholes with lots of gray areas between. Come on. You guys can't honestly tell me that with the kazillion modded cars on the road today(and yes swapped motors) that you are actually concerned that a properly equipped car (ie cats/egr/smog pump) as suggested above (dart block in a 96 and up gt/cobra) would have any major issues passing smog


I know this discussion has gone off on a tanget, but:

#1. I was only making a suggestion to Black Pearl
#2. I was trying to help
#3. I was trying to save him money while at the same time possibly giving him more potential to make more power then an OEM cobra motor.
#4. I have no desire to have a pissing contest over a dart motor versus a OEM cobra motor. I already know which one is better and better priced.
#5. I am not an expert on smog regulations..who is when the COLOR of your plug wires are not even approved


[ January 09, 2008, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
 

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Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:

quote:

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Originally posted by Blind:

quote:

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Originally posted by kingmoochr:
let me clarify. according to the california air resources board, you can NOT replace the motor in any vehicle with one produced before the vehicle and continue to be smog legal. is that better?

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unless you modify it so that motor is able to pass smog with all equipment the vehicle used stock.

it's either the motor or the car, whichever is newer, that you must smog it as.

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I have no claims on being an expert on what is smog legal or not. Wouldn't a dart block constitute a "new motor". If you wanted to get nitty and gritty about the whole thing the dart motor would actually be "newer" then a new cobra motor from ford. Does CARB specify that the design of the motor must be of a newer or different design (ie modular as compared to a pushrod motor) when replacing the motor in a car that came OEM with a modular motor? If not then I see lots and lots of loopholes with lots of gray areas between. Come on. You guys can't honestly tell me that with the kazillion modded cars on the road today(and yes swapped motors) that you are actually concerned that a properly equipped car (ie cats/egr/smog pump) as suggested above (dart block in a 96 and up gt/cobra) would have any major issues passing smog


I know this discussion has gone off on a tanget, but:

#1. I was only making a suggestion to Black Pearl
#2. I was trying to help
#3. I was trying to save him money while at the same time possibly giving him more potential to make more power then an OEM cobra motor.
#4. I have no desire to have a pissing contest over a dart motor versus a OEM cobra motor. I already know which one is better and better priced.
#5. I am not an expert on smog regulations..who is when the COLOR of your plug wires are not even approved


Hows that for being clear?

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his car was never offered with a pushrod motor, so you would be required to pass smog as what the car came with, it's pretty simple.

dart block being newer or not, it's based on a design not used in a mustang since 1995, so even with all CARB legal heads/intake/exhaust parts, it's only CARB legal in a vehicle up to the last year it was used, which would be an explorer (1999?) iirc. So in that case the car is newer, and he'd have to meet smog requirements of his car, which is still not a big deal except for the visual aspect of smog, which is a grey area for any car.
 

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Posted by 92stangLX (Member # 3252) on :
 
500rwhp out of a two valve (even with boost) is gonna be tough. I would swap an moddified 03/04 cobra motor in before trying to swap a 5.0.

Another option is to get built two valve motor wiht ported heads, cams, and a turbo.

Either way it ain't gonna be cheap so start saving your pennies
 

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Posted by CobramanPhil (Member # 2170) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 92stangLX:
500rwhp out of a two valve (even with boost) is gonna be tough. I would swap an moddified 03/04 cobra motor in before trying to swap a 5.0.

Another option is to get built two valve motor wiht ported heads, cams, and a turbo.

Either way it ain't gonna be cheap so start saving your pennies

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I totally agree with you. I'd say run big fuel and a turbo. Get a half decent tune and it should last for at least a while (depending on how he drives it).

I am not sure if there is a turbo kit that is smog (CA)legal though Getting passed the sniffer shouldn't be a problem if he has his smog stuff on, but that shiny turbo probably does not have an exemption serial number on it (so he might not make it past the visual) and the smog guys in my area do check for this (eg. They wouldn't pass you if you had anything past a s or t trim vortech).

[ January 09, 2008, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
 

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Posted by TOPnotch (Member # 1340) on :
 
stock 2v bottom ends = junk If you mod that motor to the point where it makes mid 400 hp even with a good tune your on borrowed time. Piston/rod failure is going to happen. 4v engine is the way to go. By the time you build that 2v with good rotating assembly, good heads, and cams to make the power you want, you will be right around the price of a 03-04 cobra engnie probably more. And as for a 5.0 swap why go backwards with technology? Mod motors are the future with fords!!! Just my 2 cents?

[ January 10, 2008, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: TOPnotch ]
 

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Posted by CobramanPhil (Member # 2170) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by TOPnotch:
stock 2v bottom ends = junk If you mod that motor to the point where it makes mid 400 hp even with a good tune your on borrowed time. Piston/rod failure is going to happen. 4v engine is the way to go. By the time you build that 2v with good rotating assembly, good heads, and cams to make the power you want, you will be right around the price of a 03-04 cobra engnie probably more. And as for a 5.0 swap why go backwards with technology? Mod motors are the future with fords!!! Just my 2 cents?

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Dart Pushrod motor = Oldie, but goodie

[ January 10, 2008, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
 

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Posted by Thirteen Twenty (Member # 7961) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:

quote:

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Originally posted by 92stangLX:
500rwhp out of a two valve (even with boost) is gonna be tough. I would swap an moddified 03/04 cobra motor in before trying to swap a 5.0.

Another option is to get built two valve motor wiht ported heads, cams, and a turbo.

Either way it ain't gonna be cheap so start saving your pennies

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I totally agree with you. I'd say run big fuel and a turbo. Get a half decent tune and it should last for at least a while (depending on how he drives it).

I am not sure if there is a turbo kit that is smog (CA)legal though Getting passed the sniffer shouldn't be a problem if he has his smog stuff on, but that shiny turbo probably does not have an exemption serial number on it (so he might not make it past the visual) and the smog guys in my area do check for this (eg. They wouldn't pass you if you had anything past a s or t trim vortech).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Thirteen Twenty:

quote:

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Originally posted by CobramanPhil:

quote:

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Originally posted by 92stangLX:
500rwhp out of a two valve (even with boost) is gonna be tough. I would swap an moddified 03/04 cobra motor in before trying to swap a 5.0.

Another option is to get built two valve motor wiht ported heads, cams, and a turbo.

Either way it ain't gonna be cheap so start saving your pennies

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I totally agree with you. I'd say run big fuel and a turbo. Get a half decent tune and it should last for at least a while (depending on how he drives it).

I am not sure if there is a turbo kit that is smog (CA)legal though Getting passed the sniffer shouldn't be a problem if he has his smog stuff on, but that shiny turbo probably does not have an exemption serial number on it (so he might not make it past the visual) and the smog guys in my area do check for this (eg. They wouldn't pass you if you had anything past a s or t trim vortech).

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you're area? I know a few smog places in town that are cool as long as it passes the sniffer. a couple of ways around this problem are to attach a legal tag to a non legal supercharger or look at Squires remote mount turbo. In Cali you can make any mod after the cats and be legal, that's why there are so many cat back systems out there because they don't have to pass emissions tests. Squires mounts there turbo's where the muffler's would normally be, it's an iffy subject though. I have a friend doing this to his hemi

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quote:

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Originally posted by Black Pearl:
I want to get as much HP as I can out of the stock engine.
Keep in mind i'm not super rich and have limited access to a shop. Thanks

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lemonade:

quote:

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Originally posted by Black Pearl:
I want to get as much HP as I can out of the stock engine.
Keep in mind i'm not super rich and have limited access to a shop. Thanks

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Anyone pay attention to these minor details? Big, reliable HP usually = big $. Just an observation.

Lems

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quote:

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Originally posted by Black Pearl:
Hey, i have an 02 GT. I want to get as much HP as I can out of the stock engine. Now it's my understanding that the stock GT 4.6 can only make abour 400 HP before the block cracks or somthing. I want to make at least 500 HP. What would I have to do? Would a new block or a new engine be the best way to do this? If so, what kind? Prices? I was thinking of trying to do a 5.0 swap. Would this be possible, or would it take too much fabrication? Please let me know. Keep in mind i'm not super rich and have limited access to a shop. Thanks

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quote:

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Originally posted by Black Pearl:
Hey, i have an 02 GT. I want to get as much HP as I can out of the stock engine. Now it's my understanding that the stock GT 4.6 can only make abour 400 HP before the block cracks or somthing. I want to make at least 500 HP. What would I have to do? Would a new block or a new engine be the best way to do this? If so, what kind? Prices? I was thinking of trying to do a 5.0 swap. Would this be possible, or would it take too much fabrication? Please let me know. Keep in mind i'm not super rich and have limited access to a shop. Thanks

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I guess getting back to the original questions...it is going to cost you either way to get more power out of your GT. I mean do you "really" need 500hp for a street car? Your just going to have to ask yourself that question and if it is important enough to you to spend all that cash to obtain that goal. I know plenty of people with your year car who are VERY happy with just a vortech or kennebell and a little meth kit. They have way more power then their street tires can handle so they switch to drag radials..guess what...they roast those too as the only way to get traction out of them to is suck the air out and heat them up (ALOT).

I'd say don't fall into that trap just to make the numbers (especially for a street car). keep it simple (ie blower /meth) and you will be good to go and more happy in the end...your wallet will thank you later...
 

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