Street/Strip 331: Scat, Eagle, DSS, Probe? - Northern California Ford Owners

This is topic Street/Strip 331: Scat, Eagle, DSS, Probe? in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners .

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Posted by Glenn (Member # 520) on :

Most of the kits are in the $1000 range, what would you get, and why. I am looking at a street strip kit. Thanks. If you have had experience with any of the brands, or even recommend a diferent one please let me know.

Posted by RobertTS (Member # 1022) on :

My engine was built by DSS Racing,,runs great had no problems at all with it..I highly recomend it.. [patriot]

Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :

we use Eagle, the quality is excellent, they have several kits to choose from, quick delivery, never had a problem.

[ August 23, 2005, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]

Posted by Apexmotorsports (Member # 5307) on :

You might want to try Coast High Performance. We have installed several of their engines and our customers couldn't be happier.

Mike Mak
Apex Motorsports
ApexMotorsports.com
2555 Lafayette Blvd. Suite #122
Santa Clara, CA 95054
Phone: 408/588-0075 Fax: 408/588-0089

Griggs Racing, Maximum Motorsports, Evolution Motosports, SCT, Racelogic, H&R, Ford racing, Kenne Bell, MAC, Bassani, Vortech, Powerdyne, AMSoil, Koni, Hawk, AFR, Tokico, Baer Racing, Magnaflow, Flowmaster

Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :

Glenn, go with a Eagle kit. That's what I'm running and the quality was pretty good. For the price, it's hard to beat!

Posted by mnstruc (Member # 5652) on :

I have a 331 kit using a Scat crank, Eagle rods, and Probe Pistons. I am not happy with the Probe pistons at all, since I have one that cracked and fell apart. Probe says it was lean out - none of the other 6 builders that have looked at it see it that way. Under a microscope you can see a hairline crack. There is no burning or melting evident, just a chunk came off with less than 5 hours on the motor (and no it wasn't ring butting either). I'd be happy to show the piston to anyone interested.
Go with Ross pistons if you can afford it. I think they are the best and don't know why I decided to try Probe this time out. CHP is a wholly owned subsidiary of Probe Industries. Just my opinion based on my experiences.

Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mnstruc:
I am not happy with the Probe pistons at all, since I have one that cracked and fell apart. Probe says it was lean out - none of the other 6 builders that have looked at it see it that way. Under a microscope you can see a hairline crack.

Post some pics up, I'm curious. Unfortunately, what you are saying sounds like it could be either a lean condition or a douche' bag who doesn't know what ring end gap is. [Frown]

Posted by BlueOvalRacing (Member # 1531) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:

quote:
Originally posted by mnstruc:
I am not happy with the Probe pistons at all, since I have one that cracked and fell apart. Probe says it was lean out - none of the other 6 builders that have looked at it see it that way. Under a microscope you can see a hairline crack.
Post some pics up, I'm curious. Unfortunately, what you are saying sounds like it could be either a lean condition or a douche' bag who doesn't know what ring end gap is.

I would like to see the pics also. My Probe pistons have been just fine in my 331 for at least 15k miles now and counting.

Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :

Depends on what you plan on running with the combo.

I've built engines with all of the above listed products.
Here's a rundown on what I know of each:

Crankshafts:
Eagle - cheap & effective (chinese forged, US ground), non-radiused leading edge.
Scat - cheap & effective (chinese forged, US ground), radiused leading edge, tend to balance easier then Eagle. The radiused leading edge will 'cut' through the oil easier giving more power then an eagle crank.
Cast - Either eagle or scat will be good for 600hp. Weight ~45lbs for 331/347, rough finish.
Forged - Both Eagle/Scat are good for 1000hp. Weight ~50lbs for 331/347, smooth finish.

Rods:
Eagle SIR = you get what you pay for....a Poorly designed rod that will handle ~500hp reliably. Through-bolts like stock rods. Forged in China.
Probe/CHP 'CNC' = you get what you pay for....slightly beefier then an eagle, but poorly designed. ~500hp Has through-bolts like stock rods. Forged in China.
Eagle ESP H-beam - good rod, easily balanced, can handle 800hp. Cap-screw design, come with ARP 3/8th or 7/16 bolts (depending on journal size) Forged in China.
Probe/CHP H-beam. Equivilent to Eagle ESP's. Forged in China.
Probe/CHP Lightweight I-beam. VERY nice rod for the price. Can handle 1000hp. Uses ARP cap-screw bolts.
Probe/CHP Ultra Lightweight I-beam - another very nice rod. Basically the lightest rod you can get for the price. Handles ~750hp.
*Note* Probe is the ONLY manufacture to make a 5.315 length rod/piston combo for their 347 kits. This keeps the pin out of the oil ring for better oil control.
DSS - forged in china. They do not have rods like Probe's I-beam line. They're H's are comparable to probe/eagle.
Crower - VERY nice rods! If you can aford them they are AWESOME & 100% forged in the USA.
Oliver - Billet & nearly indistructable. If money is no object, buy these rods.

Pins: (the part that connects the rod to the piston)
Carbon steel : strong, thick, heavy & standard on all aftermarket pistons. Under 600hp
Tool steel: Very strong, can be ordered in different thicknesses & are an option on most aftermarket pistons for under $50. 800hp & under
Taper wall: Strongest avialable & lightest. Offered by most aftermarket piston manufactures as an option for around $200.

Pistons: (I wont even get into hypers or cast, only forged)
CP: Top of the line tooling & finished product, but you WILL pay for it! Typically good for 1000hp with the right pin/rod.
Probe/CHP: Same top of the line tooling as CP, but the finished product is not as refined as CP....nor as visually pretty. Very nice performance features. Best bang for the buck IMO. Can handle 1000hp with the right pin/rod.
SpeedPro: The only other manufacture to use the same top of the line tooling as CP & Probe. You can get a very nice piston if you get the right one.
Ross/JE/SRP: Very nice stuff...especially when you buy custom pistons. Cheaper then CP, but they deal in MUCH higher volumes & typically can not handle quite as much power as CP/Probe.
DSS - On par with Ross/JE/SRP.

Pin locks:
C-lock: Standard on most cheaper pistons like JE/Ross/Probe/DSS. Not ideal IMO as they tend to distort the aluminum in the piston & make for removal of pins very difficult....it's not uncommon to toss these pistons after one motor if the rods must come off. The locks are to be avoided on performance motors IMO.
Spiral locks: Standard on most custom pistons & all CP's. They are reusable & does not 'roll' the aluminum in the pin boss. Rods can be removed from the pistons & reused with ease.

Rings/bearings:
Most if not all kits will come with Clevelite performance bearings. You can upgrade to the high performance bearings for very little $$$.
All of the kits come with non-file fit rings. Slap them in & hopefully the gaps are correct. For a few dollars more you can upgrade to file-fit rings & gap them perfectly to fit your application. Do not buy cast rings with a performance motor. Moly rings are very cheap these days. FYI, the second ring is ALWAYS cast....only the top is moly.

In a nutshell, all of the cheap kits use the cheapest parts they can get a hold of. C-locks, carbon steel wrist pins, SIR/CNC rods, cast cranks.

The last 347 I ordered for an N/A setup came from Probe/CHP (we're a dealer). I mixed/matched the parts to get a bad-ass rotating assembly that was lightweight, had radiused edges on the crank, & will handle far more power then a stock block can take. Here's what I ordered:
Scat Cast crankshaft
Probe Ultra Lightweight 5.315 rods
Probe SRS pistons with tool steel pins & spiral locks
Clevelite performance bearings
Moly file-fit rings.

Expect to pay around $1500 for this setup. Well worth the extra $$$ IMO.

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