This is topic question about AFR 185s . in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by phat50 (Member # 1998) on :
 
i was wondering if it was posible to use afr 185s on a stock 302 block,or would i have to buy something special in order to make them work,i know 165s would work but what about 185s?
 
Posted by uncle bill (Member # 3953) on :
 
answer is yes they will work but you may loose more than you gain with a stock engine. the 185s have larger intake runners and valves and are designed to make power at a higher rpm than the 165s, so it is very likely you will loose low end while not improving your top end with a stocker
 
Posted by 92stangLX (Member # 3252) on :
 
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
 
Posted by AJBlackGT (Member # 3936) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
 
Posted by 89FOX (Member # 4273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by AJBlackGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
what he said. theres no point in getting those 185's you will lose a ton of torque. stick with the 165's. [patriot]
 
Posted by SmokinLX (Member # 1684) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 89FOX:
quote:
Originally posted by AJBlackGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
what he said. theres no point in getting those 185's you will lose a ton of torque. stick with the 165's. [patriot]
I put the 185s on My N/A combo for a year with plans to put a charger on later, so it depends on your future plans for the car. I trapped 107 with the 185's N/A.
 
Posted by 89FOX (Member # 4273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinLX:
quote:
Originally posted by 89FOX:
quote:
Originally posted by AJBlackGT:
quote:
Originally posted by 92stangLX:
Depends on what cam you use. Check piston to valve clearance to make sure you are ok.
Yep, with the bigger valves you might need to flycut your pistons or play with the cam timing to get everything to clear depending on the cam
what he said. theres no point in getting those 185's you will lose a ton of torque. stick with the 165's. [patriot]
I put the 185s on My N/A combo for a year with plans to put a charger on later, so it depends on your future plans for the car. I trapped 107 with the 185's N/A.
not saying they wont work at all. most likely they will not clear the stock piston since they carry the 2.02 valves. he will benefit more from the 165's if he's sticking with stock motor. my 02
 
Posted by PurpleNotch (Member # 2902) on :
 
i say 165's i use the 185 on a 331 but for a stock block id run 165 even a 306 id run the 165 imo [patriot]
 
Posted by phat50 (Member # 1998) on :
 
cool,thanks guys for the help.
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
185's too big for a 302?!? Come on!

Yellow94GT ran VicJr's on a stock 94 GT bottom end & ran 12.4 on motor. VicJr's have 210cc intake ports! 185cc's is not very big at all.
165cc's is tiny!
Stock E7 heads are 145cc's.
Edelbrock 6037's are 175cc's.
TW's are around 185cc's but have a larger cross-sectional area due to the relocated valves.....the cross-sectional area is what you should be concerned about.. The larger the cross-section, the lower the velocity & the less TQ it'll make.

FYI, the most powerfull N/A 306 on this site was built 4 years ago & ran ported AFR165's with 2.02 valves & the CC of the intake was at least 180cc's. It made an impressive 340/340RW & had a camshaft that would pass smog. That's a TON of TQ for a 306 with 'large' heads.

My wife's 319 ran ported 185's that measured around 195cc's & made 360RWTQ & 388RWHP... No lack of low end on that sucker either! Granted it's not the same as a 347, but it stuck you in the seat pretty damn hard for running a stock crankshaft & 'large' heads.

Run the 185's with a stock GT camshaft & 1.7's & it'll make more TQ/HP then the 165's with an E cam.
 
Posted by HungryHippo (Member # 537) on :
 
the cam guru has spoken [worship]
 
Posted by phat50 (Member # 1998) on :
 
whats the difference between edelbrock 6037s and afr165s?
 
Posted by Quick 88LX (Member # 1950) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by phat50:
whats the difference between edelbrock 6037s and afr165s?
the afrs flow much better out of the box
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
AFR's are what I call 'high velocity' port designs.
The key differernce is port design.
6037's intake port entrance is rectangular....sharp corners, etc (same on the exhaust side). AFR's use a more oval shape, or more accurately a rectangle with wide rounded corners. Exhaust is also more rounded.

When porting heads anyone with experience would agree that you need to maximize flow around the valve guide....this is where you'll get the maximum benefit from the removal of material. AFR simply took this one step further & gave the incoming/outgoing airflow a nice straight, low turbulance path to follow in from the intake, around the intake guide, around the exhaust guide & out the exhaust port.

Basically AFR took the 'low flow' zone of rectangular designed ports (the sharp corners) & made those corners round which provides a straight path around the guide to the valve & helps flow tremendously without having to use a large port.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/headford.html
http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/images/185-ford-left-angle2.jpg


Pics aren't that great, but if you get a chance to compare the 2 side by side, you'll see the difference.

Edebrock quality is hands down the best I've seen on aluminum heads. Everything is helicoiled.....which is a very nice feature when someone overtorques an intake or header!

I'm porting some Vic Jr's at work. Basically taking the rectangular port & rounding the corners as much as possible, working around the guides, & aside from that doing as little as necessary. Wish I had before/after pics, but I've already done the major material removal on the exhaust side & a good junk of the intake side is done. My goal is for them to look very similar to AFR's design without removing too much material. The intake ports will probably end up being around 215-220cc's max. Exhaust around 78cc's. All on an EFI 347 all-motor setup that should have plenty of low end grunt & make peak power around 6500rpm.
 
Posted by FasterDamnit (Member # 442) on :
 
ANd the fastest stock bottom end 302/H/C/I was running what heads?

11.90 at 115, 3200lbs race weight, baby!
 
Posted by HungryHippo (Member # 537) on :
 
weren't they running gt40Y heads?
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Fully ported TFS TW heads flowing 281cfm???

I believe one car right behind that was running 215cfm 6037's. [Wink]
 
Posted by street_illegal_stang (Member # 1554) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
185's too big for a 302?!? Come on!

Yellow94GT ran VicJr's on a stock 94 GT bottom end & ran 12.4 on motor. VicJr's have 210cc intake ports! 185cc's is not very big at all.
165cc's is tiny!
Stock E7 heads are 145cc's.
Edelbrock 6037's are 175cc's.
TW's are around 185cc's but have a larger cross-sectional area due to the relocated valves.....the cross-sectional area is what you should be concerned about.. The larger the cross-section, the lower the velocity & the less TQ it'll make.

FYI, the most powerfull N/A 306 on this site was built 4 years ago & ran ported AFR165's with 2.02 valves & the CC of the intake was at least 180cc's. It made an impressive 340/340RW & had a camshaft that would pass smog. That's a TON of TQ for a 306 with 'large' heads.

My wife's 319 ran ported 185's that measured around 195cc's & made 360RWTQ & 388RWHP... No lack of low end on that sucker either! Granted it's not the same as a 347, but it stuck you in the seat pretty damn hard for running a stock crankshaft & 'large' heads.

Run the 185's with a stock GT camshaft & 1.7's & it'll make more TQ/HP then the 165's with an E cam.
[worship] AFR185 [burnout]
 
Posted by WeStBaY5.0 (Member # 5899) on :
 
Wow I learned something new. Lol
Cafords [patriot] [patriot]
 
Posted by FasterDamnit (Member # 442) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Fully ported TFS TW heads flowing 281cfm???

I believe one car right behind that was running 215cfm 6037's. [Wink]
The point was that the ported TW's have big damn ports- and it still ran pretty well... [Razz]
 
Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
AFR 205's!!


Oh, no one asked about those. [Wink]
 
Posted by 89FOX (Member # 4273) on :
 
AFR still the best out the box!
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by FasterDamnit:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Fully ported TFS TW heads flowing 281cfm???

I believe one car right behind that was running 215cfm 6037's. [Wink]
The point was that the ported TW's have big damn ports- and it still ran pretty well... [Razz]
Point taken. [Big Grin]

Wait till you see these VicJr's I've been working on (I'll be sending you pics)... I'm removing as little as possible but they started out at 210cc's! I'm sure they'll be under 220cc's by the time I'm all done... Gotta get velocity as high as possible.....it's only a 3.4 inch stroke they're going on.

[ August 20, 2005, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: 93PONY ]
 
Posted by phat50 (Member # 1998) on :
 
im spending to much money trying to keep up with everybody,this shit is addictive like crack!
 
Posted by TURBOGT (Member # 234) on :
 
so with a completely stock shortblock including the stock cam and 1.6 rockers will the pistons have to be flycut for 185 [Confused]
 
Posted by 89FOX (Member # 4273) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TURBOGT:
so with a completely stock shortblock including the stock cam and 1.6 rockers will the pistons have to be flycut for 185 [Confused]
i would say yes. the only 2.02 valve heads that clear stock pistons are the Trick Flows. my 02 [patriot]
 
Posted by FasterDamnit (Member # 442) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TURBOGT:
so with a completely stock shortblock including the stock cam and 1.6 rockers will the pistons have to be flycut for 185 [Confused]
probably not due to the low overlap. BUT-

ALWAYS CHECK!
 
Posted by TURBOGT (Member # 234) on :
 
someone out there must have a stock shortblock with these heads? oh well if i don't hear from anyone I'll have to check.
 
Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TURBOGT:
so with a completely stock shortblock including the stock cam and 1.6 rockers will the pistons have to be flycut for 185 [Confused]
Definitely check P/V clearance. I don't think it will clear. I mocked up a set on my stock shortblock once with stock cam but the heads were milled to 54cc. I couldn't turn the motor over because the intake valve was hitting. So definitely check.
 




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