project finished, but really slow!? - Northern California Ford Owners

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Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

k I finally got my 89 lx running...
stock rebuilt engine
b303 cam
cobra intake
3k rpm stall converter
baumann shift kit
TC rear (3.55 gears)
stock everything else

right now the h-pipe isn't bolted up to the headers, cuz I lost the damn nuts for the header studs [Roll Eyes]

anyone know what the bolts are? (size/thread) I know when I put the mustang exhaust on my Tbird and had no h-pipe on it at all (needed some welding done and muffler shop was closed), there was not a whole lot of torque but it had a bit more power up top. When I drive my stang, it's about as slow as the Tbird one thing I've noticed, the transmission shifts really soon and really soft. could the TV cable cause this? maybe the trans shifts into 2nd/3rd too soon, and when I floor it it's still in 2nd/3rd and that's why it seems so slow?

any other ideas as to why my car is so damn slow now? I can't break the tires loose at all! [Mad]

for me

Posted by Eddie510 (Member # 2354) on :

9/16's?

Posted by Blowfish (Member # 4043) on :

Try twisting the timing up a few degrees , make sure the spout in out when timing it. good luck

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

I've never heard a b-cam in a car so I'm not completely sure if it's just really lopey, or is missing [Razz]

I pulled some wires off the cap and it made no diff, i swapped wires from my tbird and i can smoke the tires now. gonna go for a lil drive now [burnout]

Posted by 66 AC COBRA (Member # 904) on :

did you time it
did you have the heads redone after porting them, as in valvejob or atleast a pressure test
how did you set up the rockers

get the h pipe back on, and the bolts are metric IIRC, dont know the size, sorry

Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :

The way you describe the shifting is exactly like how i would describe the way my 5.0 runs right now w/ a broken TV cable. [Eek!]

Mine is physically broken but yours may just need adjusting.

Thought i had to share that but it may be something else as mentioned above.

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA:
did you time it
did you have the heads redone after porting them, as in valvejob or atleast a pressure test
how did you set up the rockers

get the h pipe back on, and the bolts are metric IIRC, dont know the size, sorry

i haven't used a timing gun on it, just turned the dist. til it ran best

no I didn't do anything to the heads, other than lapping the valves

rockers were just bolted down, I didn't know there was any special procedure to install stock rockers [Confused]

quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
The way you describe the shifting is exactly like how i would describe the way my 5.0 runs right now w/ a broken TV cable.

Mine is physically broken but yours may just need adjusting.

Thought i had to share that but it may be something else as mentioned above.

yeah it shifts really early and so soft I can barely feel it. I set the TV cable this way

"Disconnect the TV cable from the throttle bracket and either have a friend floor the gas pedal or use a broomstick to hold it to the floor. Undo the lock on the cable block, pull the cable until it bottoms out then push the block back into the throttle arm (this will relock it also). Remove cable again, mark on the sleeve where the block is (an awl works great for this). This is your "max" mark. Measure 5/16" farther out from there (a bolt with a 5/16" head works nicely as a measuring tool) and make another mark, this is your "min" mark. Now make another mark dead center between the 2 and this is you "mid" mark. HO motors get set a notch above the mid mark, non-HO get set on mid and TBI and carbed cars get set a notch below mid. This is the "accepted" factory setting. Granted, the "factory" way is best using the pressure gauge, but this way is what most transmission companies tell you when installing a new transmission from them"

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

ok well I'm gonna do a compression check tomorrow, get the tv setting checked out, and get the timing set. anything else I should try? I think it's still missing quite a bit, even after changing the wires. the plugs are all brand new, i got the cheap bosch plugs...maybe the distributor is bad? [Confused]

please help me out guys I need this running perfectly ASAP

Posted by SilverLX351 (Member # 3207) on :

1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 is the correct firing order, check that out.

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

yeah I've checked many times the firing order, so that isn't the problem

Posted by hungry hippo (Member # 537) on :

first, you need to set your timing with a light. then your rockers might be making it miss because they aren't set up right. it can also be the TV cable, but i have no experience with that. are you getting a check engine light?

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

ya I am getting a check engine light, i dont know how you check it without one of those readers...dont you put a paperclip jumper somewhere and the light flashes the codes?

and how are the stock rockers supposed to be set up?

Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :

quote:
Originally posted by z pyro:

Posted by 98slowhoe 'FIFTYLX' (Member # 895) on :

Get rid of the Bosch Plugs and get some Autolites. Bosch are crap I don't remember what ones but I am sure you can find out its like 32XX or something like that, check timing for sure!!! Thats always a MUST and do that compression check like you were saying that will tell you if your rockers are set-up wrong and hanging open.

Posted by Eddie510 (Member # 2354) on :

i think timming. mine was doing the sAME THING after i took out the dist and put it back in. it felt like no power. i couldnt even burn out just like yours. well mine was timming. good luck [patriot]

Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :

So, lemme get this straight...there isn't a H pipe bolted up to the shorties, you set the timing by *ear*, and have a question about lifter pre-load....and you don't know why it runs like sh*t??!?!?! [Confused]

Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on :

Did you pull the timing plug (sorry forgot the real name of it) before setting the timing?

Also I can't imagin setting the timing without a light because the sounds you get from the timing plug out as to when the plug is in are completely different.

Best of luck!!

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

quote:
Originally posted by JohnB:
So, lemme get this straight...there isn't a H pipe bolted up to the shorties, you set the timing by *ear*, and have a question about lifter pre-load....and you don't know why it runs like sh*t??!?!?!

sorry, I'm not a genius about cars like yourself. I'm learning as I go, I don't have anyone to teach me anything. I can't seem to do anything right anyways...

got the h-pipe bolted up, timing set, and it ran a lot better. the TV is set correctly but still shifts SUPER soft, as in I can't tell what gear im in most of the time. it shifts into 2nd about when i get out of the first crosswalk at an intersection, and if i floor it, it takes FOREVER for it to get some speed up. it has nice power around 70mph or so [Roll Eyes]

when I came back home after driving it around, it started missing again, really badly. is the fuel pump supposed to be really loud? the car will run for about 10-15 seconds, then start stumbling and I can hear the fuel pump pretty loudly.

i sounds like the rockers are hitting the valve covers where the fill holes are, apparently hitting the baffles. I'm going to try to put the stock covers on. now, instead of calling me stupid, HOW DO YOU SET UP THE STOCK ROCKERS?

I'll check compression if I can get back to my ex's where I was working on it and have the comp. checker. right now the car doesnt wanna run in park...

[ July 14, 2005, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: z pyro ]

Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :

Hey, I call it like I see them. Either do it right, or don't do it at all. Chilton's/Hayne's manuals are hella cheap. No one called you stupid, so chill on the "boo-hoo I'm dumb" comments. I never claimed to be a genius either. [Wink]

Now, with that said...

It shouldn't be taking long to build speed. Is it downshifting?

If the fuel pump is making a noticable change in tone, it may be on it's way out. Is the fuel pressure constant even with the change?

With pedestal mount rockers, you are unable to adjust lifter pre-load without the aid of shims. You can tell if the rockers are hitting the VC's by placing your hand on them while it's running. What did you torque the bolts to on install? Stock rockers, rollers...what are you running?

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

I can't tell if its downshifting or not, really. it's just kinda all over the place. I noticed now that when I make a u-turn, I hear some squeaking sounds from the back. yay, more problems!! also, i don't know wtf it is but sometimes when accelerating the whole car shakes, like some really bad wheel hop...but there's no wheel hop [Confused]

would overfilling the tranny make it all screwy like it is?

I checked compression, 150psi on all 8 cylinders. plugs are gapped at .054

Posted by asskickn88 (Member # 4957) on :

I have seen people try to set their timing by "ear" and found it to be way off when using a light. If you need help I'm sure by posting up you could get it. Even if you have to pay someone to help out its cheaper than killing the new engine you just built. Paying someone a couple hundred bucks to help you get all the bugs worked out is much less than pulling the motor back out and replacing a melted piston. Just my .02 ....... good luck [patriot]

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

I dont have a couple hundred bucks...i have about 70 bucks to my name. i need this car running so i can get up to sac. I'm in fresno and there's only 2 people on here in fresno. but the timing is set with a light now, that's no longer an issue, and neither is the exhaust.

again, would overfilling the tranny make it shift like it is? it shifts kinda early, REALLY soft and when I floor it it feels like the tranny is slipping a lot, just no power gettin to the ground

and about the rockers/lifters, they're all stock. I just bolted em down til they wouldnt turn anymore [Roll Eyes]

[ July 15, 2005, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: z pyro ]

Posted by SilverLX351 (Member # 3207) on :

What is the timing at, with the spout out? Also, if you just tightened the rockers down, they should be ok. Check the TPS, and are all the plugs, wires, cap+rotor new?

[ July 15, 2005, 12:46 AM: Message edited by: SilverLX351 ]

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

timing is at 10* with the spout out. tps is ~.98 KOEO. plugs are new, wires/cap/rotor are off of my Tbird. the wires that were on it were making it miss a little bit

Posted by blind (Member # 3052) on :

with your high stall TC your shifts will be soft as hell unless you're WOT and shifting with the TC locked up

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

even at WOT they're soft. as a matter of fact the 1-2 (maybe 2-3? cant really tell..) shifts, then kinda floats like its slipping out of gear

Posted by blind (Member # 3052) on :

how much ATF did you put in the tranny?

I think bone dry they take 12qts to fill?

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

well i put in 2 gallons and another quart so thats what 9 quarts? and it was low so I put in another 1/2-3/4 gallon. it's way over full now tho, thats why i asked twice if it being overfilled would make it shift funny lol

Posted by blind (Member # 3052) on :

with not enough ATF my buddies car wouldn't move when put into gear, TC wouldn't engage. I have no idea what effect too much ATF would have

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

yeah I've driven with low fluid on my tbird, comes out or wont go into gear. I've been told that if it's too much it gets whipped up and gets foamy but I don't know about that, I didnt think an auto had gears like a manual did...

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

well i took the car to a tranny shop and the guy test drove it, said that it has all the gears and isn't burnt out. adjusted the TV cable and it made SOME difference so it's at least hooked up. sometimes it shudders when trying to shift, and shifts really early. fluid looks/smells good, level is correct. I'm going to see if I can swap valvebodies from the old trans and hopefully I just ****ed up the shift kit install...

Posted by blind (Member # 3052) on :

that would suck, make sure you post what the problem turns out to be!

Posted by asskickn88 (Member # 4957) on :

When I built my motor the roller lifters took quite a while to pump up. I dont know if your still having that problem though.....

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

i'm pretty convinced that the big problem is in the tranny and not the engine. i've driven it about 50 miles so far. when/if i get the tranny worked out i'll see if it runs better/faster. I sure as hell hope so...

[ July 15, 2005, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: z pyro ]

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

well I took the valve body out, and found what looks to be a really small metal filter. looks kinda like a metal mesh sock, with a metal collar. anyways, it was in between the separator plate and the case, so I figured I'd swap separator plates and it'd work right, right? wrong! its no better, maybe even worse [Mad]

monday I'm going to get a different valve body, cuz the one out of the old tranny is different (my tranny has the 3-4 accumulator, the other one doesnt. the #s stamped on the valve bodies say the one without is an '89, the other is '84

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

when I installed the shift kit i also installed a new boost valve. it was a pita to get in...if this was sticking would it cause the trans to shift really soft and/or shudder when shifting?

Posted by 89TRUNK (Member # 2506) on :

When i had my th350 built i had them put in a transpak kit that made it shift real soft but it wouldn't drop in RPM too much at WOT....You check if your getting WOT? maybe something is binding and doesn't allow you to

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

I dunno about that, I'm sure i just messed up the shift kit install, or the boost valve. that thing was bein real hard to put in/get out. but I dont know what it does, so I'm not sure lol. I'm gonna swap with a valvebody that is known to be good, and see if it works, I hope that will fix it im at wit's end..

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

IT'S ALIVE!!! [Big Grin]

swapped the valvebody from the other tranny and it shifts right now. that boost valve, it's out far enough to see the o-ring at the end, and it seems to be stuck there. so that's probably what was causing it to be messed up.

how loud should the fuel pump be? I have no reason to believe that it isn't stock, and it's pretty damn loud. the pump in my Tbird is pretty much silent. the car still feels like it should have some oomph, how would I go about checking the pump? maybe check pressure at one of the valves on the fuel line? [Confused]

Posted by Cstang50 (Member # 4925) on :

my stock pump made more noise then my walbro dose

Posted by SilverLX351 (Member # 3207) on :

They tend to get pretty loud before they go out. I would replace it. Also, you should get an AFPR and a FP guage.

Posted by z pyro (Member # 3745) on :

how would i check it without pulling it out? and I can't buy anything right now I'm flat broke, so performance parts will have to wait

[ July 19, 2005, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: z pyro ]

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