quote:

---

Originally posted by 9lbpony:
I'll give my canned engineer answer:

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

---

 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA (Member # 904) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by FordPny:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9lbpony:
I'll give my canned engineer answer:

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

---

---

blower- easier to install, easier to tune, can be smog legal, a little cheaper

turbo(s)- more power than a blower, easier on the motor for the given hp numbers, more torque, full boost faster, no belts to throw off, sound sick as fuck, car can be quiet as stock and have 600rwhp, its something relatively different

i like turbos, i am nto afraid of the tuning or the install

but a s trim would be 10x easier
 

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Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9lbpony:
I'll give my canned engineer answer:

It depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

---

What are you goals, current combo, etc.....
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA:
[QUOTE] full boost faster,

---

I don't think so....

Ever heard of turbo lag?...You have to wait for exhaust pressure to build before you can get boost...A blower is always spinning and can basically build boost instantly...

One thing I hate about turbos is the amount of under the hood temperatures they create...
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
Me waits for 93 Pony to chime in

Me sits back and grabs popcorn
 

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Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by AaronC:
Me waits for 93 Pony to chime in

Me sits back and grabs popcorn

---

 

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Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
I don't think so....
Ever heard of turbo lag?...You have to wait for exhaust pressure to build before you can get boost...A blower is always spinning and can basically build boost instantly...

---

a blower can build boost instantly correct but wont see full boost untill 5k or redline, a turbo CAN see full boost by 3k Ill let 93 pony and the other turbo guru's handle it from here

[ May 16, 2004, 07:22 PM: Message edited by: mustanggt5091 ]
 

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Posted by 9lbpony (Member # 3510) on :
 
Turbo lag can be an issue in a small displacement low compression engine. A 5 litre feeding a single turbo can produce a LOT of exhaust pressure pretty quickly. While a Roots style blower will create boost right off idle, a properly built turbo setup can launch with 5-6psi no problem. Go go auto!

All this being said, if I had to do it all over and it was smoggable, I'd have turbos.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by mustanggt5091:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
I don't think so....
Ever heard of turbo lag?...You have to wait for exhaust pressure to build before you can get boost...A blower is always spinning and can basically build boost instantly...

---

a blower can build boost instantly correct but wont see full boost untill 5k or redline, a turbo CAN see full boost by 3k

---

LOL

A Kenne Bell or twin screw type blower can achieve full boost at 2,000rpm rather than 6,000rpm with a centrifugal like Vortech or ATI...

Do you know how a turbo works?...Generally speaking, most Turbos wont build boost as early as a blower could...You can get a small turbo to spool up fast, but then you loose the total boost advantage...Turbos work off exhaust pressure, you have to build exhaust pressure to get boost...A blower runs off the crank and as soon as the crank goes the blower goes...

I love my turbo!..It has great torque and I've bypassed the factory boost controller to get full boost early(around 3500rpm)....I think it's more of less a personal preference as to which you prefer...I love both!
 

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Posted by chosen1 (Member # 1906) on :
 
It really depends on the combo, the intended use of the vehicle, and most importantly your budget. I think easy answer would be a turbo for the aforementioned reasons, but in many cases, superchargers work just as well, if not better.

turbo lag??? i thought thats what 2-steps were for

ive had this talk with 93 pony several times, he prefers n/a cars.
 

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Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
Do you know how a turbo works?...Generally speaking, most Turbos wont build boost as early as a blower could...You can get a small turbo to spool up fast, but then you loose the total boost advantage...Turbos work off exhaust pressure, you have to build exhaust pressure to get boost...A blower runs off the crank and as soon as the crank goes the blower goes...

---

Yes I know how a turbo works especially on a V6 but thats another story. I guess it depends on witch type of blower he is talking about, roots or centrifugal. A twin turbo setup on a small block v8 can acheieve full boost at a very low rpm and lots of it, therfore not loosing the boost advantage. Not to mention less wear on the cranks bearings at higher psi from the added stress caused by the belt on a blower. I will agree with you that a roots style blower can achieve boost quickly, but it also makes a ton of heat. If it were me and you are stuck on picking boost, then I would go with a turbo. If emissions is a concern a ATI with intercooler or Vortec with aftercooler and no matter if its a blower or a turbo the NX N-tercooler kit also

If the car is a street car though, i would look into nitrous, much better on the street than boost in my opinion. Cheaper inital cost and you can turn the extra power on with a button whenever you need it.
 

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Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
im mainly focusing on a lot of power for a lower price. so it sounds like a blower will fullfil my needs(price wise.) what do you perfe, vortech or ATI procharger? thanks
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Full boost at peak torque is simply incredible! No centrifugal SC that I know of can do that. Roots produce a LOT of heat & are RPM limited by design.

A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

BTW, turbo's run off heat as well as pressure.

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.
Check this out:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18046
 

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Posted by 5LVENOM (Member # 2282) on :
 
My S-trim makes good power ( over 400 at the tires). BUT, if I was going to do it over again...... turbo. And BTW, Shaun (93PONY), gave me an asspuckering ride in his car last nite. It is fucking insanely fast. Fastest car I've ever been in.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:


A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 87 Saleen:
do turbos like compression?

---

quote:

---

a blower can build boost instantly correct but wont see full boost untill 5k or redline

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by FordPny:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 87 Saleen:
do turbos like compression?

---

Nope, but i guess you can "sort" of get away with it if you have race gas. But definetly low compression for boost from wither turbo or blower.

---

With almost any power adder the main enemy is the heat build up that power adder itself creates. That's why there are inter/after coolers and things like water injection.

In any case you end up walking that fine line of air-to-fuel while still trying to keep the unwanted heat build up to keep away from detonation. That is why the race gas helps....to keep the det./knock down to an acceptable level so that the AFR can be kept in your particular "sweet spot" .

All of this in combo with accurate corresponding timing will make SAFE POWER!

[ May 17, 2004, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: TRIX02GT ]
 

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Posted by F8LPONY (Member # 11) on :
 
To put and end to this silly arguement...

Take a look at any "street car" racing body. Heavy Street, EZ Street etc. and you will find that turbo cars have a weight penalty slapped on them because turbos are fair to the competition since anytime a turbo car enters the field it woud win if there were no penalties for those now wanting to run a turbo

I agree with the above, yeah twin-screws can see full boost faster than a big turbo setup but then they lack the top end power. Turbos are much cooler in the fact that it is easy to adjust the power. Get a dual-stage boost controller an dyou can have street friendly 5-7psi but flip the switch and now you have 10+psi AND can add an Alky kit like I am to auto arm when in hi boost mode and it's like switching tanks to race gas and bigger intercooler

That's why I gave up on blowers and am having aturbo installed this week.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 
Ok, I just want to clear up a few things...

My first and only point was that Eric mentioned that turbos get full boost faster...My point is they don't...

I never said that a Kenne bell is better than a turbo or even a Centrifugal blower...If I was buying a kit, I'd get a Vortech, just because of the streetability of the kit...I don't think that turbo kits for a 5.0 or a 4.6 Mustang are for daily drivers...I'm not saying they can't be, and I'm not saying they're worse, I'm just saying that between smog and melting components under the hood is not the best thing for a daily driver...

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

That's the only point I'm making...If anyone wants to talk about best track numbers or peak numbers, or power above a certain rpm, or a turbo vs kenne bell vs vortech vs ATI vs whatever go ahead, I'm not debating that....
 

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Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SlipNslide281:

quote:

---

a blower can build boost instantly correct but wont see full boost untill 5k or redline

---

Really depends on your tune, and if its a roots blower vs centrifical, I have the stock 03 cobra roots blower and it kicks in at 1900 to 2100 rpms and goes just about straight accross the board, a constant pull. Depends on the Tune. A centrifical blower needs to spool up a bit kinda like a turbo. Both have there pros and cons.

---

I was talkin about a centrifugal blower like a ATI/Paxton/Vortec. Sorry if I didnt make that clear, when I talk about blowers I dont count roots( lets not make this a different debate, remember he asked turbo or blower and lets keep it to his ?)i just dont like them. my $.02

As for 9cobra9 ?, I personally would get the ATI because it comes with a intercooler, im sure most on this board will tell you Vortec because of problems with the ATI's in the past. I know a couple of people, some of the fastest on this board have ATI's , and havent had a problem at all. I know your lookin for boost but I still say run NAWZ on the street
 

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Posted by trbo50 (Member # 1671) on :
 
I've been an advocate of turbos for years now and have proven success with them. Starting with my stock block, stock crank setup that went 9.30 to my 7 sec outlaw car. With the right tune up, a turbo combo will give you the most bang for buck and the least amount of maintaince and breakage. Turbo lag is not an issue with a stick or auto. Most of us are drag racing so the "lag" everyone is referring to is insignificant. I'm looking forward to seeing more turbo cars here in the Bay Area.
 

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Posted by *SlipNslide281* (Member # 622) on :
 

quote:

---

Shuan, You can't tell me that you can get 8psi at only 2000rpm

---

sure you can, I get probly 10 to 11 psi around 2000rpm. Thats with a stock 03 cobra blower, 2.8mm pulley, and a tune. So Im sure a Keeny Bell could do better. here is my dyn chart. The lower lines is before the tune and pulley and the seceond upper set of lines is after the tune. yes it tapers off at the end which a Cintrifical probably would not but the low end gets me out of the whole, and the tune keeps it a pretty constant pull.


 

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Posted by DropTopFox (Member # 1689) on :
 
I vote turbo just for all out efficiency of power being made. Only problem with Turbos is the fact that I don't think people know turbos like they know blowers yet. Once the turbo knowledge catches up, blowers will be a thing of the past in my mind. You'll see a hell of a lot of turbo cars instead of everyone and their mother running a vortech. I've ran the jug and realized I could handle the power with no problem. Whether it be a new motor in this car or a new car, my next car will have boost and maybe the jug as well. As long as it's fun to drive, who gives a shit
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by *SlipNslide281*:

quote:

---

Shuan, You can't tell me that you can get 8psi at only 2000rpm

---

sure you can, I get probly 10 to 11 psi around 2000rpm. Thats with a stock 03 cobra blower, 2.8mm pulley, and a tune. So Im sure a Keeny Bell could do better. here is my dyn chart. The lower lines is before the tune and pulley and the seceond upper set of lines is after the tune. yes it tapers off at the end which a Cintrifical probably would not but the low end gets me out of the whole, and the tune keeps it a pretty constant pull.

---

Thanks, your supporting me in this debate...

LOL...When I said, "Shuan, You can't tell me that you can get 8psi at only 2000rpm", I meant just HIM...Shaun/93Pony has a 331 twin turbo 93 Cobra..I wanted to see if HE can hit 8psi at only 2000rpm with his Cobra....

Your dyno graph is exactly what I'm talking about!...

[ May 17, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Black94 5.0 ]
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 
double post

[ May 17, 2004, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Black94 5.0 ]
 

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Posted by Jeff S (Member # 371) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

That's the only point I'm making...If anyone wants to talk about best track numbers or peak numbers, or power above a certain rpm, or a turbo vs kenne bell vs vortech vs ATI vs whatever go ahead, I'm not debating that....

---

I'd be willing to bet that Shauns motor makes more average rwhp from 2000-6000rpms with his Incon kit @ 8psi then it would with a Kenne Bell @ 8psi.



[ May 17, 2004, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Jeff S ]
 

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Posted by *SlipNslide281* (Member # 622) on :
 
Black94 5.0 LOL Glad I could help
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA (Member # 904) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
Ok, I just want to clear up a few things...

My first and only point was that Eric mentioned that turbos get full boost faster...My point is they don't...

I never said that a Kenne bell is better than a turbo or even a Centrifugal blower...If I was buying a kit, I'd get a Vortech, just because of the streetability of the kit...I don't think that turbo kits for a 5.0 or a 4.6 Mustang are for daily drivers...I'm not saying they can't be, and I'm not saying they're worse, I'm just saying that between smog and melting components under the hood is not the best thing for a daily driver...

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

That's the only point I'm making...If anyone wants to talk about best track numbers or peak numbers, or power above a certain rpm, or a turbo vs kenne bell vs vortech vs ATI vs whatever go ahead, I'm not debating that....

---

when i said the turbo will make boost faster than the the supercharger, that is because i was talking about an ati/vortech/paxton type, I doubt the 9cobra9 was even considering a kennebell or an eaton

and yes, 93pony's car would make more power under the curve and on top end with his twin turbo's, because driving the compressor with exhaust gas is much mor efficient than driving the compressor with a belt, so less power lost to turning the compressor wheel

and this whole lag arguement

when u are racing someone, how often are u under 3k rpms anyway

and if street racing on street tires, i woundnt want instant boost at 2k rpm, that would just equal

now if on slicks it would matter, because u are launching higher than 3k anyway

turbo(s)
 

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Posted by r1 (Member # 1144) on :
 
rob has a 2 step in his car, and he sees boost while not even moving
 

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Posted by *SlipNslide281* (Member # 622) on :
 

quote:

---

and if street racing on street tires, i woundnt want instant boost at 2k rpm, that would just equal

---

I agree but Im not bragging at all just what I have experienced. I ran street tires on my 03 cobra and still hit a 1.9 60foot. while others there with 03 cobras were getting 2.4 60 foots, and above on DR's. So I guess it's how you know your car. I would much have rather driven on DR's but it is possible to keep traction. so I like my instant boost.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
Ok, I just want to clear up a few things...

Shuan~So, you're saying that a kenne bell supercharger that hits 8psi at 2000rpm until red line (around 5,500) will have less "Average power from a given RPM to redline" than a turbo that produces 8psi????????...I don't think so....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
[QUOTE]By FAR the turbo will make more power per lb of boost than ANY SC on the market today.

5LVenom basically has one of my previous setups (stock GT40 iron heads, cobra intake, 331, etc) but with an E303 vs my stock GT cam, an S-trim VS my Incons, & an off-road exhaust vs my high-flow catted setup.

Both setups made 430RWHP by 5K rpm.....my turbo setup made over 500RWTQ before 4KRPM. Average power... When I went to a custom cam & off-road exhaust the setup picked up 5-6mph in the 1/4.....at 9psi max boost.

No, my current setup does NOT make 8psi at 2000rpm.

---

1)I never said a blower would make more power than a turbo...

2)5Lvenom has an S-trim notice I said Kenne bell???????...Shaun, don't you have an air-to-air intercooler and does 5Lvenom??..I'm only comparing a Kenne bell simply because it builds boost instantly and I'm talking about "AVERAGE" horse power....Yeah, blowers take horse power to run, but you won't get full boost at 2000rpm either....

3)I'm only trying to make a point that superchargers build boost faster...AC66 you have a great point about full boost at 2000rpm and traction, but it's power across the rpm range that makes you fast and you're only as fast as your traction anyway...

4) Shaun~ Your car is bad ass, I'm not trying to down play that in anyway...

5)Jeff S, I shoulda taken that bet...



 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Black94 5.0:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
[QUOTE]By FAR the turbo will make more power per lb of boost than ANY SC on the market today.

5LVenom basically has one of my previous setups (stock GT40 iron heads, cobra intake, 331, etc) but with an E303 vs my stock GT cam, an S-trim VS my Incons, & an off-road exhaust vs my high-flow catted setup.

Both setups made 430RWHP by 5K rpm.....my turbo setup made over 500RWTQ before 4KRPM. Average power... When I went to a custom cam & off-road exhaust the setup picked up 5-6mph in the 1/4.....at 9psi max boost.

No, my current setup does NOT make 8psi at 2000rpm.

---

1)I never said a blower would make more power than a turbo...

2)5Lvenom has an S-trim notice I said Kenne bell???????...Shaun, don't you have an air-to-air intercooler and does 5Lvenom??..I'm only comparing a Kenne bell simply because it builds boost instantly and I'm talking about "AVERAGE" horse power....Yeah, blowers take horse power to run, but you won't get full boost at 2000rpm either....

3)I'm only trying to make a point that superchargers build boost faster...AC66 you have a great point about full boost at 2000rpm and traction, but it's power across the rpm range that makes you fast and you're only as fast as your traction anyway...

4) Shaun~ Your car is bad ass, I'm not trying to down play that in anyway...

5)Jeff S, I shoulda taken that bet...

---

Who the fuck cares about 8psi at 2000rpm!?!

You said a turbo would not make more average power from a give rpm to redline then a roots blower. You are WRONG. Boost is only one aspect of what it takes to make power. Heat & timing play BIG roles as well. If you're pumping in 180 degree air into a motor at 8psi how much timing do you think it'll be running on 91 octane? How about the same 8psi at 100 degrees? And what about the power it takes to turn the blower?

A good turbo setup will add 20-25RWHP per lb of boost on a typical mustang 5.0. SC's are in the 18-20RWHP range. Roots are below that.

The intercooler on my car has been proven to add a whopping 20rwhp with 80mph wind on it.....on the dyno.

Superchargers do NOT build boost faster. At least not every supercharger. Turbo's & centrifugal blowers have very similar compressor units...they must spin very high RPM in order to make boost. Turbo's spin 2-3 times as fast as any blower out there. The faster you spin it, the more boost it'll make. Centrifugal blowers spin based on engine RPM, therefore they can NOT make boost as fast as a Turbo that spins off heat & pressure...which can be very high at low RPM/high load conditions. Roots blowers are some of the least efficient power adders available...why even bother IMO. Sure, you get massive torque down low (still NOT what a turbo can do!) & they're RPM limited....and they produce massive heat (which is the main drawback)

& as for turbo lag....ask the local LS1's on nitrous how fast I get full boost from a 45mph punch. It's just a hair slower then their N2O shot.

I've heard all your arguments before...from countless individuals who really don't know shit about turbo's. You want to learn? Browes around on www.turbomustangs.com

One more thing, I've not melted a damn thing from hot underhood temps. Yes, there's more heat then stock, but compared to these 96+ 4.6 S-trim setups I work on....there's no real difference. Place your hand on an S-trim after it's run down the drag strip.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 
Calm down....

Roots superchargers DO build boost faster...You said it yourself, unless you have high load conditions a turbo wont have boost...Roots blowers are inefficiant and build more heat, you're right, but did I ever say they didn't?...Just face it I'm right about a roots blower building boost sooner than a turbo...A roots blower is connected DIRECTLY to the crank..So, EXACTLY as soon as the engine gains rpms, so does the blower...Just because you think that a roots blower is a waste of time doesn't change the fact that they can build boost right off of idle...

Did 5Lvenom have an intercooler?...I mean you can't make the same comparison if he didn't...

Now you're saying that your twin turbo has the same under hood temps as a 4.6 S-trim?...Do you daily drive your Cobra?...Maybe that's why you haven't melted anything yet...Wait, didn't you complain about the spark plug wires you've burn't on that car?...
 

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Posted by 5LVENOM (Member # 2282) on :
 
I have no intercooler, don't suck me into this either, right now my car has nothing on Shauns. All I know is my car is fast, but Shauns is assraping fast. Makes me want to go to turbos. Dyno numbers don't mean shit either, if you get no traction (like me) and suck at driving at the track (like me). If you want a fast streetcar, get a cent charger, if you want a fast strip car get turbo, if you want to pull a fifth wheel to tahoe, use a roots (or turbo for that matter).

[ May 17, 2004, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: 5LVENOM ]
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA (Member # 904) on :
 
i have a turbo equiped vehice that spools to full boost by 1800rpm

it might be a 99 f350 powerstroke diesel, but it still does it
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
I have the 'boost is boost?' article right here in front of me...couldn't find it online (sorry). Fasterdamnit had this posted back in June of 03 if you do a search....athough the pics of the power curves he posted are no longer active. So, here's a basic rundown straight from the article:
(too bad they didn't measure intake temps.)

327ci A4 block
Victor Jr heads
Performer RPM intake (carb)
Demon 750 carb
Comp XE266HR camshaft
8.4 to 1 compresion

Holly174ci blower
Paxton 1200 centrifugal blower
HP Performance turbo kit without intercooler

Boost at 2500rpm:
Roots: 4.8psi
Paxton: 1.7psi
Turbo: 5.7psi

Max boost:
Roots: 8psi @6000rpm
Paxton: 9.5 @6000rpm
Turbo: 9.5 @5100rpm

Max HP/TQ: (all figures are flywheel)
Roots: 535@6000rpm/513@4600rpm
Paxton: 617@6000rpm/561@5200rpm
Turbo: 600@6000rpm/617@4200rpm

AVG HP/TQ from 2500-6000rpm:
Roots: 394/483
Paxton: 412/494
Turbo: 460/564

AVG HP/TQ from 4000-6000rpm (dragstrip power):
Roots: 472/497
Paxton: 518/542
Turbo: 555/585

Notes:
1. Roots blower made 8psi max compared to 9.5 with the turbo & SC..
2. No intercooler was used on any setup.
3. Turbo boost peaked at 9.5psi at 5100rpm, then dropped to 8.5psi by 6000rpm.
4. The cam was installed 'dot-to-dot' & favors the exhaust heavily. The cam was a comprimise but favors SC motors....turbo's like heavy reverse-splits.
 

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Posted by 88DroptopGT (Member # 2535) on :
 
FasterDammit sent this to me a long time ago.


 

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Posted by *SlipNslide281* (Member # 622) on :
 
Ok so to answer the guys question 9cobra9 first asked a question, which do you prefer, LOL Heated debate. So 9cobra9 I guess what we get out of the posts that a Turbo makes more power but you have to consider what you want, and how much your willing to pay. Price compare and you might find the answer to what YOU prefer.

[ May 18, 2004, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: *SlipNslide281* ]
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 88DroptopGT:
FasterDammit sent this to me a long time ago.

---

Thank you!
 

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Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
Wow, what a pissing contest.

If you want decent power for a low price, as you indicated in one of your posts...you can't beat a used S trim or Novi 1000. Depending on what you are attempting to accomplish, and parts given, will determine what your setup is actually capable of.

It all depends on how deep your pockets are.
 

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Posted by NotchBack 90 (Member # 566) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
Full boost at peak torque is simply incredible! No centrifugal SC that I know of can do that. Roots produce a LOT of heat & are RPM limited by design.

A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

BTW, turbo's run off heat as well as pressure.

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.
Check this out:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18046

---

Most 96 cobras? You guy don't have a F___ing clue about these mod motors in northern cal do you? In southern california if you made that much power with a blower something is wrong period.

Those hp numbers are not impressive for a 99 cobra with a turbo.

[ May 18, 2004, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: NotchBack 90 ]
 

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Posted by J's90-LX (Member # 2987) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by NotchBack 90:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
Full boost at peak torque is simply incredible! No centrifugal SC that I know of can do that. Roots produce a LOT of heat & are RPM limited by design.

A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

BTW, turbo's run off heat as well as pressure.

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.
Check this out:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18046

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Most 96 cobras? You guy don't have a F___ing clue about these mod motors in northern cal do you? In southern california if you made that much power with a blower something is wrong period.

Those hp numbers are not impressive for a 99 cobra with a turbo.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NotchBack 90:
[QUOTE]Most 96 cobras? You guy don't have a F___ing clue about these mod motors in northern cal do you? In southern california if you made that much power with a blower something is wrong period.

Those hp numbers are not impressive for a 99 cobra with a turbo.

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I thought those numbers were good!...486rwhp from a stock long block 4V with 10-11psi of boost?...That's pretty awesome...I'm not sure how long that will last, but nice numbers all the same...
 

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Posted by 98slowhoe 'FIFTYLX' (Member # 895) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnB:
Wow, what a pissing contest.

If you want decent power for a low price, as you indicated in one of your posts...you can't beat a used S trim or Novi 1000. Depending on what you are attempting to accomplish, and parts given, will determine what your setup is actually capable of.

It all depends on how deep your pockets are.

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exactly, there is a reason why turbos are more money and have more into them then just a blower and two pipes and an extra belt. If I had the money when I bought my S-trim I would have gotten a turbo, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got on the S-trim. S-trims are cheap and very available used.


The question of which one is better will always be a big argument, just like Ford vs. Chevy, its all in what you like.
 

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Posted by Fostang (Member # 3752) on :
 
I wouldn't want more than 400 rwhp from a stock bottom dohc.

It's bound to break so F that.
 

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Posted by KING Cobra (Member # 2011) on :
 
Sorry for getting all late on this but. I have a V-1 on my Cobra and its built block. I made about 479.5 @ 6K and @ 10.0lbs of boost. I think those are respectable numbers. I love my supercharger and I got a deal to good to be true on it but EVENTUALLY when I get the money I will upgrade to a TURBO, because I know I can achieve higher dyno #'s then those with 10 lbs on a turbo. I still need to get bigger injectors (55#'s) and a second fuel pump to achieve my 600 RWHP mark. Plus I have have another 2000 more rpms to go with the setup.
 

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Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on :
 
I vote blower is better than turbo. Don't ask me why because I don't like debating and listening to 100 people take what I say and twist it in to a big pile of shit. Turbo's are cool though I love the sound when the car gets on it
 

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Posted by HungryHippo (Member # 537) on :
 
electric boost is best because it runs off the electrical system
no heat, no backpressure, no lag, no using power. just look at all the race cars switching to electric waterpumps. best of all, it only costs around $50 for the blower, $130 for an upgraded alternator if you want to run extra boost, and dont forget the volt and amp guages for the pillar
 

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Posted by Hrly01Stng (Member # 2843) on :
 
id prefer S/C blower for street applications because they seem to be easier to maintain and is a lot cooler.. turbos run really hot for a street car... they do make the power..
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by NotchBack 90:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Full boost at peak torque is simply incredible! No centrifugal SC that I know of can do that. Roots produce a LOT of heat & are RPM limited by design.

A turbo motor will make more power under the curve then any blower setup Period.

BTW, turbo's run off heat as well as pressure.

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.
Check this out:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18046

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Most 96 cobras? You guy don't have a F___ing clue about these mod motors in northern cal do you? In southern california if you made that much power with a blower something is wrong period.

Those hp numbers are not impressive for a 99 cobra with a turbo.

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I don't have a clue about these motors? Haha! I build these things for a living. If I didn't know that the fuck I was doing, we wouldn't be in buisness. One of our 4V's has put out is just over 400RWHP on motor (at 283ci w/low compression) & well over 800RWHP with a blower. Hell, we even have our own intake manifold for 96-98 4V's.

Countless 4V's with 10lbs of boost, off-road exhaust, & a street tune (91 octane) make just over 400RWHP. Add race-gas & up the boost & more power will come.

That Turbo 99 Cobra pushes 12lbs of boost & made all that power with just 14 degrees TOTAL timing. That is VERY impressive! So is 500+RWTQ from a 281!

It is you who doesn't know shit about these motors.
 

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Posted by 87 Saleen (Member # 1549) on :
 
owned
 

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Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
thanks you guys are great, but sadly im going to have to postpone supercharging or turbocharging till at least the end of summer $$$$. any way thanks again. does any one know a place where you can buy complete reliable super/turbo kits.
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
Munch Munch... This popcorn sure is good
 

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Posted by NotchBack 90 (Member # 566) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by blind:
I hate to break it to you, but fresno is not socal.

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quote:

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Originally posted by NotchBack 90:

quote:

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Originally posted by blind:
I hate to break it to you, but fresno is not socal.

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I also hate to break it to you, do you really think I post where I live?

My bud down here with a whimpy novi 1k and
intercooler put down the same numbers as that 99 cobra with a stone stock motor. (Yes I know it doesn't have the torque curve of a dump truck like the turbo does)

Oh and Mr. 93 pony. This was stock, as in stock as a rock. No headers, just a ported intake we did ourselves which was later tuned on 91 octane at Power train dynamics. Because I know nothing about mod motors and was owned….. our setup in N/A form put down 327rwhp SAE with all the right parts. (When the blower was added to keep the car smog legal all the good parts were taken off do to the smog nazi)

Yup, guess I don’t know shit about these motors…. Oh well.

Don't get super personal man, if you still think that all 96 and up mod motors make only around 400 rwhp on pump gas.... well that's news to me because I don't see any of those around here.

Also if your shop makes intakes and what not where are the big bore strokers? I'm sure you guys know those whimpy 324 cubic inc mod motors are throwning down over 400 rwhp all motor.

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Hey AaronC pass the popcorn
 

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Posted by Rev Happy (Member # 661) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93pony

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by 93Pony

Countless 4V's with 10lbs of boost, off-road exhaust, & a street tune (91 octane) make just over 400RWHP.

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quote:

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Hell, we even have our own intake manifold for 96-98 4V's.

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We? LOL... Didn't know that you were involved in making the 96-98 HCI mongoose intake... The castings for that intake were made over two years ago (by someone else that left the company), thats why you guys only have a few left on that shelf with no plans on making more...

[ May 18, 2004, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: Rev Happy ]
 

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Posted by KING Cobra (Member # 2011) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rev Happy:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93pony

Most 96+ cobra's make ~390-430RWHP with Blowers & all the bolt-ons.

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What do you consider all the bolt-ons?

quote:

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Originally posted by 93Pony

Countless 4V's with 10lbs of boost, off-road exhaust, & a street tune (91 octane) make just over 400RWHP.

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Thats far from all the bolt-ons in my book... And if you're talking about full exhaust being LTs and so forth, those numbers are way low IMHO...

quote:

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Hell, we even have our own intake manifold for 96-98 4V's.

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We? LOL... Didn't know that you were involved in making the 96-98 HCI mongoose intake... The castings for that intake were made over two years ago (by someone else that left the company), thats why you guys only have a few left on that shelf with no plans on making more...

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Actually the mongoose intake can not be made again unless they start from scratch due to the unfortunate incident that happen down in Australia. And as plans for making another one are still up in the air.....no one said they would definately stop making the intake.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 93PONY:
[QUOTE]

Countless 4V's with 10lbs of boost, off-road exhaust, & a street tune (91 octane) make just over 400RWHP. Add race-gas & up the boost & more power will come.

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I gotta admit shaun, 400rwhp is on the low side for a 4v with a centrifugal blower...

[ May 18, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: Black94 5.0 ]
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
The person who 'made' the intake is Dave Inall. The same guy who 'made' my Incon turbo kit. I don't know the whole story on who actually designed the intake...I know who cast them, I know who first had the idea/desire, & I know who stole the design. I could care less who designed it. 'We' (HCI Motorsports) sell the intake to 'our' customers. 'We' also sell H-beam rods, forged pistons, & a host of other quality parts... I don't know who designed any of that shit either...nor do I care.

Notchback:
I never said 'all 96-98 4V's make around 400RW with boost & bolt-on's.' I said MOST.
I see countless Racesystem tuned 96-98 cobra's with exhaust, & the other basic bolt-ons making 400-430RWHP. Sure, on occuasion you find one the puts out more....& on occuasion you find one the pust out less. The vast majority put out 400-430 around here.

I could care less what one cobra down in So-Cal put down with a ported intake. Cut the runners & the motor will peak higher in the RPM. Wow. HP = TQ * (RPM/5252) Therefore the higher you can make TQ in the RPM, the more HP you'll get....especailly with a blower as the higher you spin a blower, the more air it'll push. A few years back one of my buddies had a 98 cobra that put out around 430RWHP. He cut the runners on the stock intake & did some porting & the thing lost TQ & gained massive high-rpm HP. Nearly busted 500RW if I remember correctly. That's still only one car....

The point is, that 99Cobra has an off-road exhaust & 12lbs from the turbo kit. 480RWHP may not sound 'that impressive' to some of you, but only fools look at 500RWTQ & say 'that's not impressive'.

How much TQ does a 96+ 4V make with off-road exhaust & 12lbs of boost from an Vorturd? It'd be hard pressed to break 400RW let alone 500!

So, which car will pull harder in the 1/4 or on the street? The one with massive low-end torque? Nah.....turbo's don't make power down low!
 

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Posted by 5LVENOM (Member # 2282) on :
 
Vorturd?


Hey man c'mon now.
 

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Posted by FordPny (Member # 510) on :
 
Shuan dont you go thru this argument like every 3-4 months.

I knew you were due soon.
 

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Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
Boost it is all good this is a never ending argument on every Mustang board out there. All I know is with my vorturd I picked up 1.5 seconds and 18 mph in the 1/4 mile for drum roll.... only 2000.00 dollars total investment. I also have never run it on drag slics so it might be even more ET. I am impressed buy the driveability and power of my V2-SQ, 11.4 at 124 out of a stock short block with H,C,I(which is on its last breath) daily driven streetcar. I can't stress how drivable this thing is. I do have to say if I ever get the cash to build a all out drag 5.0 it will be sporting a big Turbo.

[ May 19, 2004, 04:56 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
2-stangs:
Your car impesses me. Let me know when you hit up Sac next, I'd like to see it run.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by FordPny:
Shuan dont you go thru this argument like every 3-4 months.

I knew you were due soon.

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I'm glad to see you're adding to the technical debate on this thread...


 

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Posted by 9cobra9 (Member # 4470) on :
 
when i get my car on the street and go to sac ill hit you up, but it will take a little time. and i need to practice racing otherwise it will be poinless cuz ill probably turn a low 14 high 13? sec car into a 15 sec car. but when i go ill pm you or let you guys know my times. thanks
 

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Posted by badazz (Member # 1773) on :
 
ok lemme get in this, personally i think turbos are WAYYYYYYYYYY better....reason why?? well lets see...why are there so many restricting rules on turbo guys vs the sc guys?? haha...they want to make it FAIR they say..lol and also i wonder why non of the SC guys have stepped up on this challenge

"Why does the NMRA give the supercharger combinations a 33% Bigger Engine and a 55% Bigger Power Adder in SSO and the Pro classes?

Check out the FACTS at our Frequently Asked Questions (F.A.Q) Section!

At PTK we think that Procharger or Vortech should grudge race a turbo car of our choice with the a 480 cid or smaller engine, a 106mm turbo & boost controller on NMRA legal tires and suspension heads up for a best of 5 side by side races to see which power adder is superior with a fair power adder/ engine combination, let us know what you think at our Customer Support Forum.

Maybe the supercharger companies would like to match our $5,000.00 grudge funds and let's see who can run what? We will, run you any where, anytime!

UPDATE:
Since the blower supporter(s) are already making excuses about their being a limit on the blower cars engine and power adder ( something us turbo people deal with in every organization ) we have decided to lift the limits and the blower car, the blower car is welcome to run any sized engine, head unit, tires and suspension and the turbo car will do the same!

You blower guys are so use to having an advantage that you can not race straight up anymore, HUH!

$5,000.00 is waiting for you Procharger and Vortech!

UPDATE: As od 04/05/2004 None of the blower Companies has taken us up on our offer!"

more info here
http://66.70.20.245/pages.asp?pid=2

enough said..turbo OWNZ
 

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Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
honestly do you think a company like vortech cares about a 5000.00 dollar wager ?
 

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Posted by a50sn95 (Member # 527) on :
 
I have yet to see a turbo kit with an E.O. for my car. (95 GT) Until then, I guess I have to keep my Vortech....
 

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Posted by jmcclesk (Member # 1355) on :
 
Now i rember why quit posting here.
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by jmcclesk:
Now i rember why quit posting here.

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What exactly do you mean?
 

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Posted by badazz (Member # 1773) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
honestly do you think a company like vortech cares about a 5000.00 dollar wager ?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by a50sn95:
I have yet to see a turbo kit with an E.O. for my car. (95 GT) Until then, I guess I have to keep my Vortech....

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