This is topic I have spark but no fuel! in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
When I turn my car to the on position I can't hear my fuel pump prime anymore, but instead I hear a click coming from under my driver's seat(the fuel pump relay?). When I go to start my car it turns over I just have no fuel.

Did my relay go out or do I need a new pump?

Thanks
Jared
 

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Posted by ON N2O (Member # 2067) on :
 
new pump....
 

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Posted by Fast472Mach1 (Member # 2559) on :
 
Check your wires before replacing anything.
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 
if the relay is clickin it sounds like ur pump died
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Anyone else have any ideas? I am looking on Summit @ the BBK 255 In tank Elec. Fuel pump for $130.

What do you guys think?
 

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Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on :
 
I think I would buy and replace the fuel pump relay first...They're cheap (less than $10)and easily replaced....Pumps are more expensive and harder to replace...

Make sure you didnt accidently hit your inertia switch in the trunk too...
 

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Posted by yellow67stang (Member # 903) on :
 
Is there gas in the tank?
 

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Posted by Blue Oval (Member # 2548) on :
 
if the relay is clickin that means its working.id replace the pump but check the wires first.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Yes I have gas in the tank and it's about half way full. That's going to suck if I have to replace the pump with a half way full tank. Yes the relay is clicking when I turn the key to the on position but the pump isn't priming. The wires all look good that are going into the relay. Someone over at stangnet also told me to check the inertia switch which I have done but I don't really know what it's supposed to look like when it's normal or it's tripped. Here's the pics of it. A guy over there told me to press the red button and when I tryed to do that it didn't even compress so I don't know. It didn't do anything for me at all.




My car almost has 160k on it so the pump might have just taken a dive.
 

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Posted by Blue Oval (Member # 2548) on :
 
i forgot but i think mine has a white button,if i remember correct its towrad the bottom or on the bottom of the swicth.maybe someone else can clear this up.
 

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Posted by 04ParksRider (Member # 786) on :
 
Jared, if you need a relay I have one for you, $7, call me if you want it
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Ok cool Kevin the guys over at stangnet said to just get a relay and try that before I go and replace the pump since they are so cheap.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Here is what you do....


1) Make sure the fuel pump is seeing electricity.

2) on top of the gas tank where its closest to the rear bumper, there is a 4 wire connector in the middle. Unplug it.

3) 2 of the 4 wires are ground

4) 1 of the 4 wires is your fuel level signal

5) 1 of the 4 wires is power to your fuel pump.

6) Put your volt meter between ground and this power wire.


7) Have someone put the ignition key in the on position. If the pump is getting juice, the meter will show ~12Volts for ~2 seconds.

8) If you see no voltage, drain the gas tank and replace the pump
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Ok this is the connector I unplugged, it was the only one that I saw under there. I don't have a volt meter just a test light so I used that instead just to see if I had any type of electricity back there, wich I didn't. I probed with the test light on each of the four connectors on both ends while having someone turn the key to the on position. I had no electricity what so ever with the test light.


Does it sound like I did all of that correctly? Should I get a volt meter and do it again? I think I am just going to purchase a new pump. Anyone have any links to sites with the install, I have never done one before?

[ October 20, 2003, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: 91sleeper ]
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 
if u tested all the pins and got no electricity at any pin, then its not the fuel pump, that means that something is bad between the pump and the cpu probably, could be the relay, could be the inertia switch, when my inertia switch popped when i hit a big rock (8" round rock) i had to push the switch up and down a few times and just keep fiddling with it until the pump came back on, it took a few trys to get my switch to reset
see if u have power at the inertia switch goin into it, if u have power at the switch, but not goin out of it, its the switch
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Are you sure you're probing the connector that goes to the wiring harness, and not the conector that goes to the fuel pump/tank?

1) Clip the test light to metal part of the chassis.

2) Have someone repeatedly turn the ignition key on-off-on-off (They relay should be clicking on and off durring this time)


3)At the same time probe each of the 4 wires coming from the wiring harness of the car (Not the gas tank)

4) If the test light turns on, then chances are good its a fuel pump: http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/fpinstall.html


If you have an Ohm meter, you can also check to see if your pump is burnt out or not. The fuel level signal will have ~75 ohms resistance with respect to ground if your gas tank is about half full.... the pump power wire will have I'd say a dozen or less ohms with respect to ground if the pump is good.

[ October 20, 2003, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: st5150 ]
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE:
if u tested all the pins and got no electricity at any pin, then its not the fuel pump, that means that something is bad between the pump and the cpu probably, could be the relay, could be the inertia switch, when my inertia switch popped when i hit a big rock (8" round rock) i had to push the switch up and down a few times and just keep fiddling with it until the pump came back on, it took a few trys to get my switch to reset
see if u have power at the inertia switch goin into it, if u have power at the switch, but not goin out of it, its the switch

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quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:
Are you sure you're probing the connector that goes to the wiring harness, and not the conector that goes to the fuel pump/tank?

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quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:
4) If the test light doesn't turn on, then chances are good its a fuel pump: http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/fpinstall.html

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why do u keep saying that if there is no power at the plug its the pump, if there is power at the switch and the pump wont turn on the the pump is bad
but if the plug has no power, then the pump wont turn on just because there is no power, not because the pump is bad, if the pump was bad he would still have power at the plug

to check the inertia switch leave the plug in it, u need to use ur test light to poke throw the wires, thats why its so sharp (needle like), and test the wires, for power in and power out

just move then inertia switch up and down a few times, i think its in the "on" postion when the red button is down, depressed, not up
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE:

quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:
4) If the test light doesn't turn on, then chances are good its a fuel pump: http://www.corral.net/tech/maintenance/fpinstall.html

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why do u keep saying that if there is no power at the plug its the pump, if there is power at the switch and the pump wont turn on the the pump is bad
but if the plug has no power, then the pump wont turn on just because there is no power, not because the pump is bad, if the pump was bad he would still have power at the plug

to check the inertia switch leave the plug in it, u need to use ur test light to poke throw the wires, thats why its so sharp (needle like), and test the wires, for power in and power out

just move then inertia switch up and down a few times, i think its in the "on" postion when the red button is down, depressed, not up

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quote:

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Originally posted by 91sleeper:
[QUOTE]as I was probing the connectors.

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lol u were probing the connector
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Ok so I was messing around with the inertia switch and got the red button to pop up. Then I plugged the connector back in down at the tank and thought it was going to work but it didn't. So ijust pushed the red inertia button up and down a few times to see if I could reset it or something and still no luck.
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 
did u check power, do u even have any power at the inertia switch comin from the fuel pump relay, it could still be the realy even if it is clickin, just try it
if u have a chiltons manual or equivalent it should give a diagram of the relay, then by that u can test the relay with a power source, like a jumper wire from the battery
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
How do I probe the wire if I don't unplug it from the inertia switch? Punch it right through the wire? If so I tryed that for both of the wires that go to the inertia switch and had no elec. there either. Does the car need to be in the on position when I try to probe the wire?

[ October 20, 2003, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: 91sleeper ]
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 
yes the car has to be on, and u have to have some one doing it
as in u hold the test light in the wire while someone else turns the key on and off every 5 seconds
to make it easier just unplug the connector at the inertia switch, and have a friend rotate the key on and off
then if neither wire has power for a second or two, its more than likely the relay
do u have aim, let me get ur name and ill message u if u respond before i start my dinner
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 
the plus that comes from the ionertia switch is the black one, just checked for u, the orange plu comes fromn the pump
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Ok so I unplugged the connector that goes into the inertia switched and probed it while the key was being turned to the on position. The relay is still clicking but i'm still not getting any signs of elec at the inertia switch itself and at either the black or orange connector pins(8 total).

Does that mean the relay is out and needs to be replaced?
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
My screen name on AIM is sic91sleeper.
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 
no dude, check the plug that connects to the inertia switch for power, check both wires becuase i am unsure which one comes from the relay
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE:
no dude, check the plug that connects to the inertia switch for power, check both wires becuase i am unsure which one comes from the relay

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quote:

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Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE:
good luck man, i have tried to help u with everything i know over AIM, maybe its just a fuse, always check the fuse box first
pm me ur phone number and i can walk u through it tommorrow if its not runnin, later

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Yeah thank you so much for all of the help you have given me!
So far:
1. Checked all 8 pins on the two connectors black/orange down by the tank which showed no power.
2. I also had no power when checking the inertia switch.
1. I checked all of the fuses and they were all good
2. Ran a power line from the battery to the inertia switch to make sure that the fuel pump was good which it is. It did prime. So now that means it's either the switch or the relay.

Tommorow morning I am going to go get a new relay and put it in and see if thats it.
 

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Posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE (Member # 904) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 91sleeper:

quote:

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Originally posted by 66 AC COBRA of CA PERFORMANCE:
good luck man, i have tried to help u with everything i know over AIM, maybe its just a fuse, always check the fuse box first
pm me ur phone number and i can walk u through it tommorrow if its not runnin, later

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Yeah thank you so much for all of the help you have given me!
So far:
1. Checked all 8 pins on the two connectors black/orange down by the tank which showed no power.
2. I also had no power when checking the inertia switch.
1. I checked all of the fuses and they were all good
2. Ran a power line from the battery to the inertia switch to make sure that the fuel pump was good which it is. It did prime. So now that means it's either the switch or the relay.

Tommorow morning I am going to go get a new relay and put it in and see if thats it.

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i had him bypass the inertia switch and the realy, not go through it, so the inertia switch can still be a problem, but i think the realy is bad or a fuse is bad, maybe check over the fuses again

91sleeper-post a topic asking which fuses is for the relay, if u dont have it figured out ny friday i will be goin to my house in fairfield and can look it up in my manual
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
I indvidually pulled out every fuse in my panel and they all were good. I will replace my fuel relay tommorow and we'll see what happens. If it's not that then its probably the inertia switch for sure.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Woah, this thread got out of hand. I can't even comprehend some of the replies.... I don't know why you wasted your time with the fuses, but at least you know you don't have any blown ones now


Your relay won't turn on with a bad intertia swtich. It will turn on with a bad ignition switch though If I were to bet, I'd say ignition switch, followed by the runner up: fuel pump relay..... and I'm assuming you don't have any hack car alarm wiring.


http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/88-91eecPinout.gif


http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/tech/engine/images/IgnitionSwitchWiring.gif
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Replaced the relay this morning and still no luck. My inertia switch comes in tommorow so we'll see.

I have no hack alarm wiring sawson. I will double check my ignition switch but I just replaced that not even 6,000 miles a go.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
It doesn't have to be hack, it just has to be related to the fuel pump relay coil or power wire and it could be a potential trouble point.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:
It doesn't have to be hack, it just has to be related to the fuel pump relay coil or power wire and it could be a potential trouble point.

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Well my car did have an alarm on it when I bought it but the next day I took it to the dealer and they removed it.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
So if it's not the inertia switch then it's the ignition switch then I guess.

Correct?
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Sorry, I kind of lost track of this post when it blew up.

If your fuel pump works when directly powered, and your relay turns on, then the only parts left in the system are the EEC relay and ignition switch and inertia switch.... you can probe the iginition switch wires to see if its working right by using the link I gave you earlier.

Sorry, electrical diagnostics is extremely difficult to explain online.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
I am glad that a majority of these parts are fairly cheap. So far I have bought a $20 fuel relay and a $15 Inertia switch.

So if the inertia switch doesn't solve the problem I will just go get a new ignition switch and if that's not it then I will be lost.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
With a multi meter you won't need to buy any parts since you'll be able to test everything.


Try this test:


There are two larger wires going to the fuel pump relay. With your light probe, verify one has 12V when you hear the relay click. This wire is the same wire coming out of the 4 prong connector above the gas tank.
 

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Posted by 87 Saleen (Member # 1549) on :
 
You could've spent $2 to goto the bone yard and steal those things! Tard.

[ October 22, 2003, 01:33 AM: Message edited by: 87 Saleen ]
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 87 Saleen:
You could've spent $2 to goto the bone yard and steal those things! Tard.

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That's what I originally thought too 4 cyl Mustangs use the same fuel pump relay.
 

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Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:

quote:

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Originally posted by 87 Saleen:
You could've spent $2 to goto the bone yard and steal those things! Tard.

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That's what I originally thought too 4 cyl Mustangs use the same fuel pump relay.

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shit I have like 5 or 6 fuel pump relay switches at home. I just pull them fromt he junk yard whenever I see them. If I read this earlier I would have just given you one. Oh well....keep us posted,...I'm interested to hear what the problem was.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Yeah but it's hard to go to the junk yard when you don't have a car to drive. Besides buying them new gives me more comfort knowing they are new and I won't probably have to replace them in a long time.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Inertia Switch didn't solve the problem, Ford Ignition Switch is on order and comes in tommorow. I think my $10 Monument one went to crap but I don't know.

We'll see.
 

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Posted by 87 Saleen (Member # 1549) on :
 
hope that fixes it dude, if that doesn't fix it what's next?
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 87 Saleen:
hope that fixes it dude, if that doesn't fix it what's next?

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I honestly don't know. I might have to take it somewhere if that doesn't fix it because I, nor many other fellow stangers haven't given me any other advice.
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Alright so I took the crappy Monument ignition switch out and put a new Ford Motorsport one in from the dealer. But my car still wouldn't start so I towed it down to the dealer for one of my buddys to take a look at it. The tow truck driver unloads it off the truck and then the car fucking starts I don't know why but it must have something to do with the trip over there. So I spoke with the mechanic and he said that I did everything right but that he reccomended to go ahead and replace the 160,000 fuel pump. So I drove it home and took the new inertia switch out and put the old one back in and my car still started. Then took out the new relay I put in and put the old one back in and it started again. So I guess it was the ignition switch after all. Six days of the car being down and $20 to fix the problem.

I am just glad it's back up and running again. Thanks again for everyones help.
 

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Posted by 87 Saleen (Member # 1549) on :
 
sucked not having a car huh?

glad it's fixed...
 

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Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 87 Saleen:
sucked not having a car huh?

glad it's fixed...

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