This is topic spark plug gap? in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners .
To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://californiafords.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=004845
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
Does the spark plug gap need to change when install a zex nitrous kit on a 5.0? If so what is the best "gapage".
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
Couple things you should do when installing nitrous.
1. Take spark plugs down a heat range. I run autolite 24's. No platinum or antything like that.
2. The gap should be a little smaller than stock. ~.040 I believe.
3. Retard your timing. Start at about 8 degrees and if it takes to that ok, slowly increase the timing, with a max of around 12 I would think.
4. Make sure your fuel system is up to par, ESPECIALLY IF YOURE USING A DRY KIT!!
Hope this gets you started in the right direction. ![[patriot]](graemlins/patriot.gif)
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
What size shot will you be running?
Posted by jr5.0 (Member # 399) on
:
i agree with 91 5.0
i have a zex kit. i went to .40 gap and colder plug range autolite 24. the only thing is don't have to retard the timing on a 75 shot just leave at the stock timing. and as for fuel system just make sure everything is running correctly. my fuel system is completely stock and my car seems to run rich with the kit.
Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on
:
I think I would run a little wider than .040".....Stock is .054, so I would try .045 first....
A little can of octane booster never hurt while running nitrous either...
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
What size shot will you be running?
start at 75 up to 100 can go up to 125 but with the amount of miles on my car I doubt I'll put it up to 125.
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
Dry or wet kit? I'd be a little nervous running even a 75 dry shot with a stock fuel system. I would at least get a bigger fuel pump and adjustable FPR. Sacrificing your motor for 75 hp isnt something you want to do. Save your money and do it right so you can enjoy that button.
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
What size shot will you be running?
start at 75 up to 100 can go up to 125 but with the amount of miles on my car I doubt I'll put it up to 125.
Go with a Walbro 255 fuel pump to be safe. I used to run my plugs at.038 when I ran a 75 shot with 10 degrees of timing and auto lite 24's
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91 5.0:
Dry or wet kit? I'd be a little nervous running even a 75 dry shot with a stock fuel system. I would at least get a bigger fuel pump and adjustable FPR. Sacrificing your motor for 75 hp isnt something you want to do. Save your money and do it right so you can enjoy that button.
Why would zex sell a wet kit and dry kit for the same car if one would reck the car and one wouldn't??? That doesn't make any sense. Or are you saying the dry is cool "IF" you have a better fuel pump and adjustable FPR. Whay if you have a wet kit do you 'not' need a better fuel pump and/or FPR?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
A wet kit injects nitrous and fuel, a dry kit only injects nitrous. Dry kits require the fuel system to be upgraded because there is no extra fuel being injected, that means the stock injectors and fuel pump and fpr have to be good enough to deliver ENOUGH fuel. Unfortunatly, 19 lb injectors and an 88lph fuel pump wont cut it.
Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on
:
91 5.0~ You think that a small "dry" 75hp shot is still not safe for the stock fuel system?..
I'm sure upgrading the fuel pump will be good for a nitrous set up no matter what, but JDUB07 will be under 300rwhp on the 75shot of ZEX....
Even with retarded timming and octane booster/91+++ ocatane, 75 shot will still be too much?...
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
91 5.0~ You think that a small "dry" 75hp shot is still not safe for the stock fuel system?..
I'm sure upgrading the fuel pump will be good for a nitrous set up no matter what, but JDUB07 will be under 300rwhp on the 75shot of ZEX....
Even with retarded timming and octane booster/91+++ ocatane, 75 shot will still be too much?...
So are you trying to say I have less than 225 hp as of right now?? ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
Also will having a upgraded fuel pump interfear when it comes smog time? and same with the fpr?
Posted by HungryHippo (Member # 537) on
:
at the wheels, yes
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by HungryHippo:
at the wheels, yes
I don't think so
Posted by CMELEVU (Member # 2563) on
:
Ok I have the zex kit and have gone to the 125 shot with bosch plt. plugs. the only thing I did on the fuel system is change the pump to a walbro 190. No adj. FPR or bigger injectors. After a month of it that way I went to the one step colder autolite plugs. After the cam swap went down to the 100 shot cause most of the threads on the plug were turning blueish in color, which would indicate a very hot and lean condition. But when the car idles it smells like it is running super rich. Of course that might be due to the fact that I dont have any cats on the car either. Just follow the directions that come with the kit. And going to the step colder plug wont hurt either. Good luck and hope you enjoy the added power.
Posted by 1990GT50 (Member # 2119) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
Also will having a upgraded fuel pump interfear when it comes smog time? and same with the fpr?
no, it wont do anything as far as smog goes.
Posted by slidewayz94 (Member # 3101) on
:
I am running the same ZEX nitrous kit with a 125 also, I am using 2 steps colder than stock motorcraft plugs. I got them from my local ford dealer, just ask them. And also retard your timing per the ZEX instrucion kits. Also you can go above 125 with ZEX! call them and speak with the engineers, they will tell u what # jet to run on the nitrous and fuel to bump it to for your desisred mix. They will highly reccomend. more fuel!
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
Thanks for all the advise.
Posted by MINGRYGT (Member # 2439) on
:
IS YOU KIT DRY OR WET?!?!?!?!?! CANT REALLY HELP UNLESS I KNOW.
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
91 5.0~ You think that a small "dry" 75hp shot is still not safe for the stock fuel system?..
I'm sure upgrading the fuel pump will be good for a nitrous set up no matter what, but JDUB07 will be under 300rwhp on the 75shot of ZEX....
Even with retarded timming and octane booster/91+++ ocatane, 75 shot will still be too much?...
I wouldnt even think about putting ANY type of power adder on a 5.0 without a bigger fuel pump. 88lph just does not cut it. I dont care if he has 250rwhp, I still wouldnt do it. Its worth it anyway, less than 200 bucks and you will actually see hp gains with the bigger pump. When I put my A-trim blower on my point, it had the stock fuel system and fuel pump. It ran super lean and had almost no power increase. when I put the 255 in it, it brought the car to life. It felt like It gained 50 hp just from being able to deliver more fuel. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Plus, its safer. If you dont want to listen, dont. I assure you though, its money WELL SPENT!!
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
quote:
Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
91 5.0~ You think that a small "dry" 75hp shot is still not safe for the stock fuel system?..
I'm sure upgrading the fuel pump will be good for a nitrous set up no matter what, but JDUB07 will be under 300rwhp on the 75shot of ZEX....
Even with retarded timming and octane booster/91+++ ocatane, 75 shot will still be too much?...
So are you trying to say I have less than 225 hp as of right now??
Depends. What mods do you have? If you trapped at 100mph, you prolly have close to 225 rwhp. Stock 5.0s usually dyno around 190 if they are stock. Also, if youre trappin at 100+ already, your fuel pump is already maxed out.
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
Also will having a upgraded fuel pump interfear when it comes smog time? and same with the fpr?
The pump is legal but the adjustable pressure regulator is not smog legal. Most places probably wont even look at the regualtor though. Its pretty well hidden.
[ July 23, 2003, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: 91 5.0 ]
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by CMELEVU:
Ok I have the zex kit and have gone to the 125 shot with bosch plt. plugs. the only thing I did on the fuel system is change the pump to a walbro 190. No adj. FPR or bigger injectors. But when the car idles it smells like it is running super rich.
bigger fuel pumps will not cause the car to run lean at idle. These cars have fuel return lines. The amount of fuel the combustion chamber sees is dependent on two things only.
1. Fuel pressure
2. The length of time the computer tells the injector to open.
Bigger fuel pumps will not effect the mixture as long as the pressure at the rails is the same, which the pump doesnt effect.
[ July 23, 2003, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: 91 5.0 ]
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 1990GT50:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
Also will having a upgraded fuel pump interfear when it comes smog time? and same with the fpr?
no, it wont do anything as far as smog goes.
AFPR's are not smog legal.
Posted by CMELEVU (Member # 2563) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91 5.0:
quote:
Originally posted by CMELEVU:
Ok I have the zex kit and have gone to the 125 shot with bosch plt. plugs. the only thing I did on the fuel system is change the pump to a walbro 190. No adj. FPR or bigger injectors. But when the car idles it smells like it is running super rich.
bigger fuel pumps will not cause the car to run lean at idle. These cars have fuel return lines. The amount of fuel the combustion chamber sees is dependent on two things only.
1. Fuel pressure
2. The length of time the computer tells the injector to open.
Bigger fuel pumps will not effect the mixture as long as the pressure at the rails is the same, which the pump doesnt effect.
Actually I started haveing a rich smell condition well before I add the juice. The car wouldnt run all that great when cold. Then the car would idle surge. I cleaned the ICS with some carb/throttle body cleaner and that seemed to work. Then I turned my mass air meter on its side, and that helped with the idleing prob. But it's still not 100%. Thought it was the 02's......wrong. put new ones in and still ran bad. My only other guesses would be the MAP sensor, or EGR. Someone said that I need to check and clean my grounds. Some input might be nice here if anyone has had a similar prob.
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by CMELEVU:
quote:
Originally posted by 91 5.0:
quote:
Originally posted by CMELEVU:
Ok I have the zex kit and have gone to the 125 shot with bosch plt. plugs. the only thing I did on the fuel system is change the pump to a walbro 190. No adj. FPR or bigger injectors. But when the car idles it smells like it is running super rich.
bigger fuel pumps will not cause the car to run lean at idle. These cars have fuel return lines. The amount of fuel the combustion chamber sees is dependent on two things only.
1. Fuel pressure
2. The length of time the computer tells the injector to open.
Bigger fuel pumps will not effect the mixture as long as the pressure at the rails is the same, which the pump doesnt effect.
Actually I started haveing a rich smell condition well before I add the juice. The car wouldnt run all that great when cold. Then the car would idle surge. I cleaned the ICS with some carb/throttle body cleaner and that seemed to work. Then I turned my mass air meter on its side, and that helped with the idleing prob. But it's still not 100%. Thought it was the 02's......wrong. put new ones in and still ran bad. My only other guesses would be the MAP sensor, or EGR. Someone said that I need to check and clean my grounds. Some input might be nice here if anyone has had a similar prob.
What does this have to do with this thread? The whole point is that changing the pump wont cause the car to run rich as long as the fuel pressure is the same.
Do you have a different question, if so, post another thread and we'll be glad to help out.
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
Sorry its a DRY KIT. I'll be taking 91's advise and upgrading my fuel pump and see how that works out. I don't know if I'll go all the way up to a 255, maybe a 190 but either case its gonna get the upgrade before I pour on the juice
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
Good decision. On the fuel pump size though, for like an extra 10 bucks, you can get the 255 and youll have that much more fuel available when you need it for future mods. Let us know how everything turns out.
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
You also need to take into consideration that just because they came from the factory with an 88lph fuel pump doesn't mean it's still running up to par.
They wear out.
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
Sorry its a DRY KIT. I'll be taking 91's advise and upgrading my fuel pump and see how that works out. I don't know if I'll go all the way up to a 255, maybe a 190 but either case its gonna get the upgrade before I pour on the juice
Go with the 255.
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
You also need to take into consideration that just because they came from the factory with an 88lph fuel pump doesn't mean it's still running up to par.
They wear out.
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
Sorry its a DRY KIT. I'll be taking 91's advise and upgrading my fuel pump and see how that works out. I don't know if I'll go all the way up to a 255, maybe a 190 but either case its gonna get the upgrade before I pour on the juice
Go with the 255.
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
I will. Have to wait until some shit sells on ebay first ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Thanks again for the advise I'll keep ya posted on the juice
Posted by CMELEVU (Member # 2563) on
:
[/qb][/QUOTE]What does this have to do with this thread? The whole point is that changing the pump wont cause the car to run rich as long as the fuel pressure is the same.
Do you have a different question, if so, post another thread and we'll be glad to help out. [/QB][/QUOTE]
My bad, I didnt mean to get off subject.
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
How critical is the FPR? I sold some things on e-bay and am ready to purchase the 255 fuel pump and wanted to know how critical it is that there is an FPR. What is its job? What is the outcome if I use what is in the car. Sorry if these are kinda dumb questions but money is tight.
Anyone know where I can get a brand new 255 fuel pump for a "good" price?
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
You can run the 255 without a AFPR, go ahead and get the BBK 255 from summit. There all the same just packaged differently.
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
You can run the 255 without a AFPR, go ahead and get the BBK 255 from summit. There all the same just packaged differently.
If they are all the same then why get the bbk over the summit brand? summit sells them for $10 less. not that $10 is a huge diff but just wondering.
Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on
:
*IF you plan on getting a FPR only buy a Kirban...BBK SUCK!...Also most fuel pumps are Walbro's, that includes Holley, BBK and most likely the Summit brand...
[ July 28, 2003, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Black94 5.0 ]
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
Why do the BBK AFPR have such a bad reputation?
Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
Why do the BBK AFPR have such a bad reputation?
Cuase they suck maybe?.....Every BBK FPR I've seen has leaked...Most of the time they leak fuel from the regulator vacuum line into the intake...I've had problems with every BBK product I've ever owned ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
...I've heard only good things about Kirban FPR's....
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
I have never had any bad expiernces with BBK products on my car at all, but I have heard a lot of bad things about BBK AFPR. Where can I get a 255 fuel pump and kirban regulator for cheap?
Would I be able to install the regulator with the upper manifold still installed?
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
Its much easier to just pull the upper and rails and then change it.
About the AFPR, I have a BBK on my car and I havent had any problems yet. I bought it used and its still working fine. ![[burnout]](graemlins/burnout.gif)
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on
:
Thanks Dustin
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
ok now for the most dumb question. Is an internal electric fuel pump the only fuel pump for my car? are they all "electric" ![[dance]](graemlins/dance.gif)
Posted by Black94 5.0 (Member # 655) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
ok now for the most dumb question. Is an internal electric fuel pump the only fuel pump for my car? are they all "electric"
Mustangs '86+ have internal (meaning inside the gas tank) electric fuel pumps...Older carburetted cars with low fuel pressure requirements run mechanical fuel pumps that mount to the side of the engine block...
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Black94 5.0:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
ok now for the most dumb question. Is an internal electric fuel pump the only fuel pump for my car? are they all "electric"
Mustangs '86+ have internal (meaning inside the gas tank) electric fuel pumps...Older carburetted cars with low fuel pressure requirements run mechanical fuel pumps that mount to the side of the engine block...
Cool thanks Rob! I'm going to see if I can get the install done before you get back from England
Posted by 91 5.0 (Member # 1527) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jdub07:
ok now for the most dumb question. Is an internal electric fuel pump the only fuel pump for my car? are they all "electric"
Yes, for your mustang, its inside the gas tank and its electric. You can also buy a high volume pump that mounts outside the tank. It must be used in conjunction with an intank pump though.
Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on
:
91 thanks for your advise and input! I'll be sure and post how the install goes
Fueled by Ford Mustang Owners
on CaliforniaFords.com