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Posted by N0SL050 (Member # 2719) on :
 
I don't know shit about nitrous so here is my question. my new motor will consist of:
306
Summit engine kit forged 10.13:1
AFR 165 heads
E 303 cam
Would it be safe to run a 100 shot from time to time, mainly at the track or should I lower the compression. Thanks in advance

[ July 03, 2003, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: N0SL050 ]
 
Posted by Bounty Hunter (Member # 1422) on :
 
Compression is a good thing in a nos motor!
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Nitrous loves compression. 10:1 compression with n20 is good. Your combo looks pretty decent as well except for that small cam. What manifold are you going to be running?
 
Posted by J's90-LX (Member # 2987) on :
 
Wow thats insane, I am building the exact same motor as we speak. haha
 
Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 
Your set up looks fine for N2O, are you opting for the forged pistons, you could bump the shot up to 150 if you are!
 
Posted by N0SL050 (Member # 2719) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
Nitrous loves compression. 10:1 compression with n20 is good. Your combo looks pretty decent as well except for that small cam. What manifold are you going to be running?
Either the Holly systemax or the Performer RPM
What cam would u recomend?

[ July 03, 2003, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: N0SL050 ]
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
I would go with the Edelbrock manifold with the AFR heads they work well together.

I am not any pro on cams but I do know oyu can only go so far with an e-cam. I would reccomend speaking with Shaun 93 Pony about your cam selection. I would start looking at Comp Extreme Energy Cams.
 
Posted by N0SL050 (Member # 2719) on :
 
This motor is holding me over till I get my boosted 331 built. I just want something that will pull off some 12 sec slips for right now. Some people have done this with the same set up as I am building all motor but just want to make sure I reach my goal with some N20
 
Posted by Blown GR40 Mystic (Member # 476) on :
 
If its just a motor to hold you over, run a 200 shot and a little more aggressive cam, who gives a fuck if it blows, you are getting a 331 anyways.
 
Posted by Red95PonyGirl (Member # 3027) on :
 
You should be ok if you dont take advantage of it.....if you shoot it off every 5 seconds you might have a problem. a friend of mine had a 2002 GT with some mods done but not too many and he got no2 and took complete advantage of it and finally he blew his piston rings and basically f*cked his whole engine up, now he is selling his stang because he can't afford the damages to be fixed.
 
Posted by Red95PonyGirl (Member # 3027) on :
 
Why the F did i put no2...i meant n2o but you get the point!
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
Not sure where everyone is getting they're facts, but compression is not a great thing on a motor built for nitrous. High compression and nitrous = extreme cylinder pressures in turn = blown head gaskets and possibly more. this is why motors built for blowers, turbo, nitrous applications are typically built between 8 and 9.5 to 1 compression ratios. 10 to 1 is not a terrible number but I would definately advise taking at least 2 degrees of timing out and adding pleanty of fuel. And if your using a stock computer or even a computer with an aftermarket chip dont over-rev it youll be sorry if you hit that rev limiter a few times on the spray, trust me I speak from experience. I've had 4 cars with spray and have a degree in automotive technology and performance. Nitrous is the way to go on the street but know your abbilities and have it tuned right. Good luck man hope it runs like a stang should...

And the guy in the Z06 asked what the f@$! you got in there??!! I just spent $60,000 on this thing and its supposto be the baddest thing on the street!!
"5 speed and some gears... thats about it.(smirk)
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Not sure where everyone is getting they're facts, but compression is not a great thing on a motor built for nitrous. High compression and nitrous = extreme cylinder pressures in turn = blown head gaskets and possibly more. this is why motors built for blowers, turbo, nitrous applications are typically built between 8 and 9.5 to 1 compression ratios. 10 to 1 is not a terrible number but I would definately advise taking at least 2 degrees of timing out and adding pleanty of fuel. And if your using a stock computer or even a computer with an aftermarket chip dont over-rev it youll be sorry if you hit that rev limiter a few times on the spray, trust me I speak from experience. I've had 4 cars with spray and have a degree in automotive technology and performance. Nitrous is the way to go on the street but know your abbilities and have it tuned right. Good luck man hope it runs like a stang should...

And the guy in the Z06 asked what the f@$! you got in there??!! I just spent $60,000 on this thing and its supposto be the baddest thing on the street!!
"5 speed and some gears... thats about it.(smirk)
[Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Not sure where everyone is getting they're facts, but compression is not a great thing on a motor built for nitrous. High compression and nitrous = extreme cylinder pressures in turn = blown head gaskets and possibly more. this is why motors built for blowers, turbo, nitrous applications are typically built between 8 and 9.5 to 1 compression ratios. 10 to 1 is not a terrible number but I would definately advise taking at least 2 degrees of timing out and adding pleanty of fuel. And if your using a stock computer or even a computer with an aftermarket chip dont over-rev it youll be sorry if you hit that rev limiter a few times on the spray, trust me I speak from experience. I've had 4 cars with spray and have a degree in automotive technology and performance. Nitrous is the way to go on the street but know your abbilities and have it tuned right. Good luck man hope it runs like a stang should...

And the guy in the Z06 asked what the f@$! you got in there??!! I just spent $60,000 on this thing and its supposto be the baddest thing on the street!!
"5 speed and some gears... thats about it.(smirk)
Thats funny, my buddies nova has 12.5:1
compression and runs a 225 shot just fine! He just has it on stock timing, no advance! I think its all in how your motor is built!
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
WELL YOU CAN THINK THAT, BUT THATS NOT TRUE, 1 DETONATION AT THAT KIND OF PRESSURE AND...BOOM. And besides I'm talking about the right way to do things, that motor wont have longevity, and in a street driven car thats daily transportation... I'd rather do it the right way...
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
Now that I think about it the best advise I can give you is to educate yourself... you may ask 10 people on here and get 10 different answers. Know what I'm sayin. Go to a book store and buy a book on it. Thats the best way and you'll learn alot.
 
Posted by jeo (Member # 2918) on :
 
if you're trying to at least get into the twelves, for sure you'll get it with that set up. i shot a 150 nx in my all stock motor with just a couple of upgrades like, headers, x pipe and gears and i was getting 12.80's. just retard your timing and add octane booster before you squeeze.
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Go to a book store and buy a book on it. Thats the best way and you'll learn alot.
Is that how you learned a lot? Don't believe everything you read and hear.
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Now that I think about it the best advise I can give you is to educate yourself... you may ask 10 people on here and get 10 different answers. Know what I'm sayin. Go to a book store and buy a book on it. Thats the best way and you'll learn alot.
A properly built nitrous motor will run a lot quicker with a higher compression motor as apposed to a lower compression motor. When using n20 on a higher compression motor you need to retard the timing more and use higher octane fuel as well as cooler plugs.

Pro Modified motors run n20 on motors that compression that exceed 15:1 so what does that tell you.
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
That tells me your as ignorant as you sound.
 
Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
That tells me your as ignorant as you sound.
I wouldnt say ignorant at all! You are just missinformed and playing it really safe! A motor in the 10 or 11:1 range works great with N20, as long as proper fuel and the system is set up right!
 
Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
WOW WOW WOW, lets take it easy everyone, i'm sure you all have your points. but to tell you the truth i'd rather play it safe with the nitrous, and do like n2osnake says, being safer will make you a richer man. I dont know about everyone else but i cant keep droppin bills to fix my motor. [Smile]
 
Posted by Red95PonyGirl (Member # 3027) on :
 
WERD! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
Thats my whole point what good does 50 more horsepower do you if it only lasts a few thousand miles, and how many passes do pro mod guys make on a motor? How much money is put into those motors to begin with? A SHIT LOAD! Like I said, if I'm building a customers car thats how I set it up or recommend them to set it up in a STREET CAR. I work at True Blue performance on the side from being a Merceded tech to get my fill, and thats the RIGHT way to do it.... but this is all besides the point, I was just trying to help a fellow mustang owner make well educated decisions and be informed. Still hope it works out bro, good luck.
 
Posted by N0SL050 (Member # 2719) on :
 
hey I didn't mean to start a heated debate [dance] Just asking a few opinions... Thanks to everybody for there input on my question [patriot]
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N0SL050:
hey I didn't mean to start a heated debate [dance] Just asking a few opinions... Thanks to everybody for there input on my question [patriot]
Your new motor with the 10:1 compression will run great with a 100 shot! Just make sure you get a AFPR and adequate fuel pump like a Walbro 255lph. [patriot]
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
my opinion, those 'octane booster' things you buy for like $4 at Kragens are a rip.
#1, add it to a full/partial tank and it increases your octane a couple 'points', i.e. 91 becomes 91.2 or whatever.

BFD

go to Arco and buy the 100 octane, 3 gallons of 91 and 1 gallon of 100 would give you 93.25 octane, for example. I don't even want to think how many bottles of that crappy '104' or whatever that would take (20?) and it still leaves red crap all over your plugs which is annoying. [patriot]
 
Posted by chrome17s (Member # 1187) on :
 
i agree that if i were building a nitrous motor for the street, i'd have low compression. u want reliability, not max hp.

whatever u do, make sure the supporting hardware is up to the task. better fuel pump and injectors, 1-2 ranges colder on the plugs, change ur fuel filter and plugs often and check for any signs on the plugs, get rid of the limiter, retard timing and TUNE TUNE TUNE!!! [Whoo Whooooo!]
 
Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 
Exactly, upgrade the fuel system to handle it like with any power adder, tune and maintain your engine accordingly!
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
A n2o motor built correctly with 10:1 compression and an adequate fuel supply will be reliable and quick at the same time. It's not like he will be driving around on n20 all the time. He even said it himself that he would run it from "time to time" not all the time.

quote:
Originally posted by Chrome 17's:
get rid of the limiter...
Please explain to me why he would do this?
[Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by Blown GR40 Mystic (Member # 476) on :
 
Where's haulinassmaro on this one. He runs 14:1 with N20. lil gray runs 10.5:1 with it. Im sure there are many others on here above 10:1 running juice. All you have to do is tune your shit. Low compression N20 motor is [Roll Eyes]
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Thats my whole point what good does 50 more horsepower do you if it only lasts a few thousand miles, and how many passes do pro mod guys make on a motor? How much money is put into those motors to begin with? A SHIT LOAD! Like I said, if I'm building a customers car thats how I set it up or recommend them to set it up in a STREET CAR. I work at True Blue performance on the side from being a Merceded tech to get my fill, and thats the RIGHT way to do it.... but this is all besides the point, I was just trying to help a fellow mustang owner make well educated decisions and be informed. Still hope it works out bro, good luck.
Why do you keep mentioning where you work it has no relevance to the question at hand. Just because you work as a "Merceded tech" doesn't mean you know shit about nitrous. Do you see a lot of Mercedes coming in with nitrous? I don't think so. Besides just because you have the label tech doesn't mean a damn thing. I know a list of techs that can't even remember left loosey righty tighty. I am not saying you don't know what your doing but don't come on here as a noobie acting like your going to get all this respect by saying you work here as a tech and there as a tech. In my expierences techs=shitty paid mechanics.

The ones that really know how to work on cars are the ones that do it on the side.

No hard feelings. Keep up on your n2o reading. [patriot]
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:

Please explain to me why he would do this?
[Roll Eyes] [/QB]
factory computer pulls spark at 6250 (EEC-IV, non-cobra), which = very bad when spraying. More than likely, you spray and bounce off the limiter you go into a critically lean detonating situation that may cost you a headgasket if you're lucky, or a piston if you're not.

easily solved with a window switch [patriot]
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by shade-tree:
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:

Please explain to me why he would do this?
[Roll Eyes]
factory computer pulls spark at 6250 (EEC-IV, non-cobra), which = very bad when spraying. More than likely, you spray and bounce off the limiter you go into a critically lean detonating situation that may cost you a headgasket if you're lucky, or a piston if you're not.

easily solved with a window switch [patriot] [/QB]
I believe it pulls fuel not spark, plus why not use both? I would rather keep the factory rev-limiter than not having one at all.
 
Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
haulinassmaro runs 14.1 but one miss and boom boom bye bye motor.
 
Posted by chrome17s (Member # 1187) on :
 
i think it does pull fuel, BUT thats not any better. thats a recipe for a KaBoom! when bouncing off the rev limiter while on the juice. if u don't want to remove it, i'd at least raise it about 500rpm but keep ur same shifts points, etc.

i'm not saying that u can't spray with a high comp motor, just that if it were my hard earned money, i'd rather err on the side of safety than max hp. do what u will, not my $$$...

the shit from my other post + a window switch + NX gen-x 2 kit, and ur ready to spray [Razz]
 
Posted by stoauto (Member # 2803) on :
 
[Cool] and not my money.

[ July 06, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: stoauto ]
 
Posted by chrome17s (Member # 1187) on :
 
oh yeah, go with copper plugs also. i believe the added heat from N2O will burn platinum right off. good luck and spray safe...
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
you're right, it pulls fuel, I mis-typed, otherwise what I said wouldn't make sense...

use the MSD's rev limiter, best tied with a window switch!

[ July 06, 2003, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: shade-tree ]
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chrome17s:
oh yeah, go with copper plugs also. i believe the added heat from N2O will burn platinum right off. good luck and spray safe...
Never run platinum plugs while squeezing!

BTW, where in the east bay are you exactly from? What does your car look like?

[ July 06, 2003, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: 91sleeper ]
 
Posted by chrome17s (Member # 1187) on :
 
i stay over in union city. 00 black, billet grill, cobra r hood, 95 cobra r's, some stickers on quarter windows, and white mustang lettering on the bumper. if u ever see me, say whats up or something. too much damn hate going around in the car industry these days [patriot]
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 91sleeper:
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Thats my whole point what good does 50 more horsepower do you if it only lasts a few thousand miles, and how many passes do pro mod guys make on a motor? How much money is put into those motors to begin with? A SHIT LOAD! Like I said, if I'm building a customers car thats how I set it up or recommend them to set it up in a STREET CAR. I work at True Blue performance on the side from being a Merceded tech to get my fill, and thats the RIGHT way to do it.... but this is all besides the point, I was just trying to help a fellow mustang owner make well educated decisions and be informed. Still hope it works out bro, good luck.
Why do you keep mentioning where you work it has no relevance to the question at hand. Just because you work as a "Merceded tech" doesn't mean you know shit about nitrous. Do you see a lot of Mercedes coming in with nitrous? I don't think so. Besides just because you have the label tech doesn't mean a damn thing. I know a list of techs that can't even remember left loosey righty tighty. I am not saying you don't know what your doing but don't come on here as a noobie acting like your going to get all this respect by saying you work here as a tech and there as a tech. In my expierences techs=shitty paid mechanics.

The ones that really know how to work on cars are the ones that do it on the side.

No hard feelings. Keep up on your n2o reading. [patriot]
No hard feelings... cause your obviously a moron. Mabye you should follow your own advise and not assume shit duschbag. Did your boyfriend not give you a reach-around last night or what, I'm just tryin to help dude out and your jumpin all over me like you would this months issue of Playgirl......
but no hard feelings
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
Must be nice to know everything at 18, stay in school kid. Sounds like you need it.
 
Posted by N0SL050 (Member # 2719) on :
 
Damn all this off a question.. Just think if I ever want to stir some shit up [Roll Eyes]
But thanks for all the replies I can see where both sides are coming from.. N20SNAKE I can see what you are saying by keeping it on the safe side go with the low compression and pretty much no worries, but I prolly will not be squeezing that often maybe here and there but not all the time. I just wanted to make sure that the couple of times I do hit the button shit didn't blow once again thanks for the info everybody [patriot]
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
Should be golden then my friend, happy spraying!
 
Posted by Blown GR40 Mystic (Member # 476) on :
 
You are the only person I have ever heard suggest a low compression motor for nitrous.
 
Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
I will admit that if you follow say a given manufacturer's jet size table, you will have to watch yourself on a wideband setup if you want to be careful, e.g. add a little fuel to be safe moving from 9:1 to 10:1, and again to 11:1 or whatever.
 
Posted by 91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by N20SNAKE:
Must be nice to know everything at 18, stay in school kid. Sounds like you need it.
Age has nothing to do with knowledge. Don't compare me to how intelligent YOU were at 18 years of age because I am not the average 18 year old.

Besides I am not going to school to become a "Merceded tech". If you would like to know I am going to school to become a FireMedic. Maybe someday I will be saving your life. Who knows.
 
Posted by N20SNAKE (Member # 3024) on :
 
look its simple physics, if you have a motor with a 10.1 compression ratio and you spray say a hundred shot even. The effective compression ratio is then increased to roughly 16.1 and if you think you can run that on the street for any length of time without having a detonation occur, your crazy. I never said people dont do it I just said its not the way to do it right and make your money last and enjoy your shit without popping a head gasket every 6 months. And as far as you being an emt or whatever, thats great but if your as all knowing at that as you are at automotive information... I think Ill wait for the next emt thanks. Ignorance is contagous cure yourself.
 
Posted by mustanggt5091 (Member # 444) on :
 
You got a lot of nerve coming in here talkin all this shit as a newbie! Its great that you understand how an engine works and your a tech, we got that! We also understand your trying to say be safe! But all the guy asked is if it would work! Then you start spittin out somr B.S. line you probably heard from someone at work! You make it sound like a 10:1 motor with a 100 shot is sucide and its gona blow!

I dont even want to hear what you have to say about boosted motors! Maybr you just need to go back to school and have a refresher course, or actually get out there and start bulding cars that people know and let us see some fast cars you got! Aain, a 10:1 motor properly built with a sufficient fuel system and proper maintence and tune and a 100 shot will go many happy adrenaline pumping miles without incedent! If you dont believe me, im sure i could talk my buddy into talking you on a nice ride in his 30,000 mile high compression 69 camaro with a 225 shot! Theories are fine on paper, but reality is a whole new ball game!
 
Posted by Bounty Hunter (Member # 1422) on :
 
This is some of the most fucked up info on Nitrous I have heard in a while!
 
Posted by yellow67stang (Member # 903) on :
 
yes
 
Posted by customN2O (Member # 914) on :
 
Low compression nitrous motors huh? It can be done, but only if you want to run some extreme amounts of nitrous. Detonation can be kept under control, if you know what you are doing. I have personally ran 12.5 to 1 compression, with 200 shot of nitrous, on the street, and never hurt a piston, or lifted a head. You have some knowledge, but putting it towards nitrous, as closed minded as you are, will never make you fast. You can use compression to aid a nitrous motor, do you know how? What does high compression do to the whole picture when nitrous is involved? If you know what is going on, then you know how to control it. Musi has ran over 18 to 1 with his pro street motors. Tell him it isnt right! There is a ton more to nitrous then you will ever read in any of the books on the market right now. They tell you the extreme BASICS, and thats about it. You must have the mad scientist mind, and alot of experience with the stuff to be able to make statements like you have.
 
Posted by MR GO FAST (Member # 2088) on :
 
scott you have a PM
 
Posted by Team SOLO (Member # 722) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter:
This is some of the most fucked up info on Nitrous I have heard in a while!
what do you know? you only run 8's [Smile]
 




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