This is topic Wilwood Brakes!! in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 
I am looking to put the 6 Piston kit with 13" rotors up front and the 4 Piston kit in the rear. Has anyone heard any news about these brakes good or bad? I mean 6 piston brakes with 13" slotted rotors and 4 piston in the rear has to literaly make your car stop on a dime!!! If not make the blood rush to your head. Any comments? Wilwood Brakes

[ March 22, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Rally1 ]
 

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Posted by MR GO FAST (Member # 2088) on :
 
Check out the boys at griggs. Top notch parts and the rep for performance handling for any mustang.
http://www.griggsracing.com/brakes.html
 

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Posted by Quick 88LX (Member # 1950) on :
 
Be careful getting so much clamping force in the front and back because you can, and probably will, just create a lock up situation everytime you stop hard. Too much clamping isn't always a good thing. Unless you have ABS brakes, I would just go with a 4 piston in the front and a 2 in the back at the MOST. Unless you have a 2 ton bohemoth to stop, 6 piston calipers in the front are not going to benefit you the way you think they will.
 

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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Rally1:
I am looking to put the 6 Piston kit with 13" rotors up front and the 4 Piston kit in the rear. Has anyone heard any news about these brakes good or bad? I mean 6 piston brakes with 13" slotted rotors and 4 piston in the rear has to literaly make your car stop on a dime!!! If not make the blood rush to your head. Any comments? Wilwood Brakes

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Thanks but I think I will stick to Wilwood. I do not want to take out a small loan just for brakes. Baers are fine but if you want the ones comparable to the 6 piston Wilwoods you are going to have to get the top of the line Baers. Which if I recall correctly are around $5500 to $6000 just for the front system. I heard that the 13" upgrade for stangs which are suppose to be similar to the two piston stock cobra brakes are not that great no different than the brakes on the new vettes which are not good for endurance racing. They do not disperse heat very well like the Wilwoods and therefore will crack and the piston will fail to work properly under high temperature. Wilwood has been a proven company for all types of racing like Nascar not that I am a fan, but they do put their brakes under high stress which I think would be great item for the street.

[ March 22, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Rally1 ]
 

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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 


[ March 22, 2003, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: Rally1 ]
 

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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Quick 88LX:
Be careful getting so much clamping force in the front and back because you can, and probably will, just create a lock up situation everytime you stop hard. Too much clamping isn't always a good thing. Unless you have ABS brakes, I would just go with a 4 piston in the front and a 2 in the back at the MOST. Unless you have a 2 ton bohemoth to stop, 6 piston calipers in the front are not going to benefit you the way you think they will.

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I have a 95 GT with ABS. But it will be interesting to see what this will feel like. The Porsche GT2 has 6 pistons up front, nice car!!!

[ March 22, 2003, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: Rally1 ]
 

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Posted by Wolfie351 (Member # 651) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Quick 88LX:
Be careful getting so much clamping force in the front and back because you can, and probably will, just create a lock up situation everytime you stop hard. Too much clamping isn't always a good thing. Unless you have ABS brakes

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That's not how brakes work at all. True, ANY brake system can lock up the tires. But better brakes allow you to come closer to that point without locking up and under more control. Therefore, shorter stopping, less effort and less build up of heat on your rotors. It's kind of like saying, all cars can spin their tires on launch, therefore more horsepower won't make your car faster.

The 13" Cobra or Baer 2 piston, floating caliper kits are great on the street and occasional track use. You aren't going to see a huge difference upgrading to 4 or 6 piston calipers unless your car sees a lot of track use. The cost of the Wilwood kit is double that of the Cobra or Baer but I wouldn't say it's double the performance. But, if you've got the cash, go for it.
 

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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 
Nice Saleen!!!
 

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Posted by Quick 88LX (Member # 1950) on :
 
I said it once and I will say it again... Too much clamping force is a bad thing. The reason you can upgrade to larger and better brakes is because of track type situations. We all know that 6 piston calipers on a street/strip mustang is way too much period. I don't care what anyone says. But for a the setup you get, it does look cool and stop better. But why go so radical in the brakes. Shit, you can do it dude I really have nothing against it. But it is a lot of clamping force and YES since you have ABS, your locking up problem will be diminished. With a foxbody however, you would lock 'em up real quick. We have no ABS obviously. I put some power slotted rotors and a rear disc kit on a stang and that bitch locked up the tires if you stepped on it hard but not SLAMED on it. WHen you slammed on it, you were just asking to slide into something. Granted, if you hit the brakes hard enough, you will skid, but why should you risk skidding when you are just pressing HARD????? Exactly the reason why I said a 4 piston setup would be perfect.
 

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Posted by Wolfie351 (Member # 651) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Quick 88LX:
I put some power slotted rotors and a rear disc kit on a stang and that bitch locked up the tires if you stepped on it hard but not SLAMED on it.

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Ever heard of a proportioning valve?
 

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Posted by ray95 (Member # 752) on :
 
i have the 6 piston wilwoods on my car and they are GREAT. i love em. people don't like to drive behind me anymore because my car stops on a dime. you will notice a difference between the cobra brakes and the wilwoods. i also have ABS.
 

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Posted by Quick 88LX (Member # 1950) on :
 
ABS is fine. I am talking about a FOX pretty much. I don't really like the sn-95 as much so this is where my comparisons lie. Even with a porportioning valve, you will still lock up before any ABS person would and that is not a good thing. Lets say you go 60/40 or radical like 80/20... How about conservative and go somewhere around 50/50 (impractical of coourse). It doesn't matter bro, a fox will lock them up quick. Unless I am only 1% of fox owners that has locked 'em up for whatever reason? Anyway, since this is for an sn-95 car, I don't even know why I am explaining myself so much??

[ March 23, 2003, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Quick 88LX ]
 

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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 

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Originally posted by ray95:
i have the 6 piston wilwoods on my car and they are GREAT. i love em. people don't like to drive behind me anymore because my car stops on a dime. you will notice a difference between the cobra brakes and the wilwoods. i also have ABS.

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Excellent that is what I wanted to hear.
 

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Posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports (Member # 636) on :
 
I sell all kinds and configurations of brakes and have lots of experience with their properties on the street and track, but I think the first question we should all ask Rally1 is, What kind of driving are you planning on doing with the car?

[ March 23, 2003, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Bill/APEX Motorsports ]
 

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Posted by rr_mustang (Member # 888) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports:
I sell all kinds and configurations of brakes and have lots of experience with their properties on the street and track, but I think the first question we should all ask Rally1 is, What kind of driving are you planning on doing with the car?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Quick 88LX:
Be careful getting so much clamping force in the front and back because you can, and probably will, just create a lock up situation everytime you stop hard. Too much clamping isn't always a good thing.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Quick 88LX:
Unless you have a 2 ton bohemoth to stop, 6 piston calipers in the front are not going to benefit you the way you think they will.

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quote:

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Originally posted by rr_mustang:

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports:
I sell all kinds and configurations of brakes and have lots of experience with their properties on the street and track, but I think the first question we should all ask Rally1 is, What kind of driving are you planning on doing with the car?

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exactly!!!

I have the wilwood 6-pistons on my '66 with 10.5" drums on the rear. I have no problems with locking up the brakes or brake fade after multiple sessions. If you plan of open tracking the car, road racing or auto-x I would recommend them.

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Thanks for the reply. I am going to be mostly doing street some open track not much, but lets not kid ourselves you can never have enough braking. How many times have you been cruising at a great rate of speed and some ass pulls out in front of you on the last minute. I can pretty much tell when they do that now from experience. This is something that everyone can benefit from if you have some extra change lying around. Besides they look kick ass on a set of chrome 18's on a stang that has a good 2" drop all around, I saw a 97GT that had them. WOW!, is all I could say the whole time I was staring at them!!!
 

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Posted by ray95 (Member # 752) on :
 
I must say that if I had to do the mods all over again with any of my stangs, it would be to start with good brakes!

I do plan on autocrossing/road racing my car but would choose the Wilwoods again even if I wasn't going to race. They have saved me and my car from that idiot pulling out without looking a few times now.
 

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Posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports (Member # 636) on :
 
Since you really won't be doing that much racing, it's very hard to beat the Baer 13" front setup. Yes, it's the same caliper that the Cobra uses, but just because it's an OEM-style part doesn't mean it doesn't work well! Go get a ride in a car that has the 13" front setup with twin-piston PBR calipers. It's only a pad-change away from seriously painful braking, and it's the most cost-effective brake upgrade available.
There's no such thing as a brake system and/or pads that work best on the street and the track. There will always be a compromise. A race pad will be dusty and noisy on the street and will not heat up quickly. A street pad will heat up quickly but will also fade faster on the track, depending on your braking style and aggressiveness.
If you want superb braking with the Baer setup, it's just a matter of changing the pads to something more aggressive than what comes loaded in the calipers. I sell the complete line of Hawk pads, from the HPS (High Performance Street) pads to their Indy car pad, the HT10, and everything in between. If you like the brakes to heat up quicker with lots of bite, the HPPlus may be for you. I really recommend it for autocrossers because of that quality, but it still works great on a street car, and it has more fade resistance for open tracking. Remember, though, that it will produce a bit more dust than, say, the HPS pad.
The Baer 13" front kit with calipers, pads, rotors, and braided brake lines, all for only $599. You really can't beat it. And the ability to go to any auto parts store for pads certainly is a plus. Adding in the Eradispeed rotor option will also increase braking performance and will look incredible as well.
Now, if you're looking for a little more bling-bling than the Baer/PBR calipers, I do carry the Baer/Alcon 4-, 6-, 8-, and 12-piston caliper setups, but their prices go from expensive to exhorbitant.
 

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Posted by ray95 (Member # 752) on :
 
Bill do you carry the Wilwood brake line? I need to get some pads and I also have a friend intersted in getting a set of Wilwoods.

I did a lot of research on brake systems before I decided to go with the Wilwoods. My first choice was the Baer Track kit. Good setup and great customer service. I called them a few times with questions and they were great on the phone. Then the Wilwood kit came into the picture. I also called them with questions and they were also very helpful on the phone. Brembo however wasn't and I read about a few people that didn't like the Brembo kits so they were out of the picture. I was at Chicane Sport Tuning in Torrance when they were upgrading a Roush that had the cobra brakes to the Wilwood kit. The owner was ecstatic about the difference.

Since I do plan on racing the car, I wanted the best braking power that I could afford for my street/race car. I started looking into the Alcon setup but because of the price I started looking at what was comparable. For the money, the Wilwoods give you the Alcon brake potential at hundreds of dollars less. Yes brake pads are a big difference between street and race performance. In my opinion you should have two set of pads, a race set and a street set. Race pads give of SOOO much brake dust. With the Wilwoods (and I think the Alcons...can't remember) there's no need to take off the calipers to change the pads. One screw on top of the caliper and you're ready to change pads. So before you leave the track pad changing is a breeze. Wilwood also makes a street pad for there kits called a Polymetrics Q pad. This is supposed to be there dustless street pad. There are a few companies out there making pads like this and I haven't read any reviews about there street performance yet. My friend went with this style pad on his stock braked Vette and he really like them. Oh and the price that I was quoted for the Wilwood pads were $75 - $90.

My suggestion would be to do your research. Decide on the future of your car, what you want to do, and how much you’re willing to spend. Hope we've helped ya out.
 

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Posted by Rally1 (Member # 2537) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports:
Since you really won't be doing that much racing, it's very hard to beat the Baer 13" front setup. Yes, it's the same caliper that the Cobra uses, but just because it's an OEM-style part doesn't mean it doesn't work well! Go get a ride in a car that has the 13" front setup with twin-piston PBR calipers. It's only a pad-change away from seriously painful braking, and it's the most cost-effective brake upgrade available.
There's no such thing as a brake system and/or pads that work best on the street and the track. There will always be a compromise. A race pad will be dusty and noisy on the street and will not heat up quickly. A street pad will heat up quickly but will also fade faster on the track, depending on your braking style and aggressiveness.
If you want superb braking with the Baer setup, it's just a matter of changing the pads to something more aggressive than what comes loaded in the calipers. I sell the complete line of Hawk pads, from the HPS (High Performance Street) pads to their Indy car pad, the HT10, and everything in between. If you like the brakes to heat up quicker with lots of bite, the HPPlus may be for you. I really recommend it for autocrossers because of that quality, but it still works great on a street car, and it has more fade resistance for open tracking. Remember, though, that it will produce a bit more dust than, say, the HPS pad.
The Baer 13" front kit with calipers, pads, rotors, and braided brake lines, all for only $599. You really can't beat it. And the ability to go to any auto parts store for pads certainly is a plus. Adding in the Eradispeed rotor option will also increase braking performance and will look incredible as well.
Now, if you're looking for a little more bling-bling than the Baer/PBR calipers, I do carry the Baer/Alcon 4-, 6-, 8-, and 12-piston caliper setups, but their prices go from expensive to exhorbitant.

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Holy shit 12 piston!!! My paint will come right off!!!
 

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Posted by MiniMEE (Member # 1009) on :
 
Sup,
I have the Wilwood 4 piston calipers superlites all around, with slotted and vented rotors and all I can say is wow....these brakes are bad ass.
 

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Posted by Bill/APEX Motorsports (Member # 636) on :
 
I don't carry Wilwoods, because Baer has all the PBR and Alcon setups I need.
I used to have Wilwoods (Superlite front/Dynalite rear) on my '88 street/road race Mustang, and they required rebuilding every six months or so. If you didn't know, the Wilwoods don't have dust boots, so any dust or dirt that gets in between the piston seals and the piston wears at the materials. They DO leak after a while.
Also, if you're using a c-clip setup in the rear (vs. a big bearing end conversion), cornering forces will push the axles outward, forcing the rear caliper pistons back in their bore. When you come up to the next corner, you'll have to pump the brakes to push those pistons back out. I dealt with this for about a year before doing the big bearing end conversion, but it can be a pretty scary situation.
Wilwood may have changed their setup since then, but you really want to check into these issues. The PBR setup has dust boots, works great, and is super reliable.
 

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Posted by racercosmo (Member # 1864) on :
 
I agree with Bill. On any car that is not a dedicated racecar, the PBRs a la Cobra/Baer make for a very good setup.
 

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