This is topic 347 stroker kits... in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
well i found a car that i will be getting and the engine is completely stock and ive been researching day and night on what the best stroker kit to get will be. I posted about this one in general discussion and a few people referred me to CHP's kits and said they were high quality, but is this true (i also heard they are un reliable and are moving their company location like every month). I just want something that will put out some good numbers, and will be reliable for the future mods (afr heads, holley intake, cam, supercharged one day....) What type of numbers do these 347 kits usually put out, like 260hp (flyweel)?? Please post feedback if you got any! thanks.....

-scott
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
I fear Probe Industries (CHP's machine shop) more than I fear CHP themselves. Although that doesn't make any sense as they are part of the same company now.

I think it makes a lot of sense to hook up with an engine builder, and buy a quality rotating assembly (like Eagle stuff, forged pistons/crank, etc.) and then pay to have a local assembler slap everything together. That way you have someone LOCAL to bitch and moan to, rather than having to say, crate up your motor and freight it back to Ohio when your oil pressure doesn't look right.
 

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Posted by unfknblvbl89 (Member # 1522) on :
 
I have talked to them at CHP quite a few times about concerns and just questions I had. They have always seemed to be in the same place or at least always made sure they transferred their phone #. I am always reading about them in MM&FF. They seem to always have good things to say about them and their products. I know they are one of the few companies that offer the 347 kit with the 5.315 connecting rod. Most others just off the 5.400 connecting rod which cuts down enging life.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
shade--k i get what your saying, but ill add in this.....i just turned 17 and theres only so many limits i can push and hooking up with an engine builder and customizing the whole kit might be hard for me to do (especially while im in school). Thats why im looking for a different option (i.e. pre-assembled kits).

unfknblvbl89- ive heard the same comments about them too, so i wohnder which side is right?

[ August 15, 2002, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: quickV6stang ]
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
and don't forget that MM&FF and 5.0 mag both get major advertising revenue from CHP.

talk to the racers that run 347's, they'll tell you the 'CHP' story is nothing more than marketing BS to differentiate their product. The rod/stroke ratio on a standard 347 is the same as Chevy's 454 and you don't here people complaining that the motors only last 20k miles do you?

I'm not trying to say "don't buy CHP", but I just want to caution you that if you are using MM&FF or the like as your source of information, it is not an unbiased one.
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
wow, I wish I was 17 and looking at throwing 5-6k down on a motor!
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
yeah well im sellin my car for 10 and buyin a 5.0 for 5 and plus i do have a job, so that helps... But the plans so far are this...

bold stuff is immediate (hopefully), unbold is as soon as i can after immediates....

exhaust- bbk off/road x pipe with flowmaster mufflers. equal length headers

engine-347 Stroker kit (coast high performance), Air flow research (AFR) cylinder heads, Holley systemax II intake manifold, compcam or holley camshaft, bbk cold air intake, 70/75mm Throttle body, adjustable fuel regulators (24/30lbs injectors), other misc. bolt ons required for parts above. procharger supercharger (eventually, not for a while)

drivetrain- 3:73/4:10 gear ratios, pro 5.0 short throw shifter, ASP underdrive pulleys

....the car im lookin into already has the saleen kit and suspension, so my body work is all coo (the only thing i eventually want is a cobra r hood).

misc- weld draglites w/ mickey's for racin time

[ August 15, 2002, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: quickV6stang ]
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
that motor sounds awesome.
might I suggest you spec. 10.5:1 compression pistons from whoever's kit it is for AFR 185 heads?

Also, I think the compcam 282HR would be a sweet off-the-shelf cam for you and I'd suggest 1 3/4" longtubes, a scatter shield, and a beefy clutch
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
what times do you think i will run with all that without the supercharger (n/a) on slicks?
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
10's are feasible in a well built NA 347.

If you shoot for a 'street' incarnation of the 347, figure solid mid 11's minumum full weight.

Once you get it dialed in you can play the cam swapping game and see what happens.

You know, throw $300 at hi-tech, $300 at Ed curtis, and say $300 at Buddy Rawls and see who's bump-stick works the best? by the time you're done you've spent $1k, and have had three of the best try to dial you in.

Also, there's a guy 'racer7088' or something like that on the corral who knows his shit very well.

For your intake, you really ought to consider the victor 5.0 or the 'spyder' intake as well depending on how high you rev it. On the street though, I bet you can't beat that Holley.

Did you see the 10 second notch with the 347 in I think 5.0 magazine about 2 months ago? It was carbed, and truthfully, if you want a 10 second NA 347 start digging out carbed solid-roller combos
 

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Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
5.0 mag also did a section on dyno proven combos. i think i saw an EFI 347 make like 450-475. NA of course
 

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Posted by JohnB (Member # 969) on :
 
Recently, I did a build up with a kit from D&D out of SoCal. Short block came assembled, very clean build-up. I'd recommend them. I believe the "comp-hawk" setup that was purchased was somewhere around $2400.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Might I suggest....

Do it once, do it right. Call Ed Curtis & listen carefully! He'll have you runnin' 11's, smogin' it & idling like a stocker. BUT, it's about the ENTIRE setup, not just the cam. So, do it right, get it all planned out before you buy anything. (which means having Ed spec out the entire engine)

Ed has a rep of being a hard-ass, but he's actually a great guy, will help anyone who asks & doesn't screw you.

Just got my entire valvetrain from him (dual springs, retainers, locks, shims, seals) for a VERY nice price! I would've easily spent twice as much through Summit!
 

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Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
Ed Curtis is also a very buisy person, so be patient. but, i guess thats a good thing right? you wouldnt really want someone that doesnt gt any buisness right?
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by cobraman_1994:
Ed Curtis is also a very buisy person, so be patient. but, i guess thats a good thing right? you wouldnt really want someone that doesnt gt any buisness right?

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quote:

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Originally posted by quickV6stang:
who the hell is ed curtis? lol

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An engine guru... He's a custom cam grinder on the east coast. Dr. of Mechanical enginereeing & like a ton of other degrees. He just does this on the side & happens to be tops. Most of the other cam grinders out there ask him for advise (especially if they want power).
Some of the name brand grinders like comp, crane, etc are just starting to use some of his old ideas with great results...just nothing compared to what he's doing now.

An engine is a large air-pump. The cam is like the brains of the pump. It controls how much air is let in & when it'll be let in.
 

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Posted by v6mustanglover (Member # 545) on :
 
Hey quikv6stang are you having luck selling your car? I am considering selling mine and would like to know how intrested people have been. Thank You!
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
NO LUCK AT ALL. 3 weekis on the market almost, and one caller . its the cheapest 99 in autotrader too
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
dorF is back to 0.0 financing on new cars.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
perfect for me, huh? lol
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
I wouldnt waste my time with any off of the shelf cam, and for damn sure not a holley cam!! If you want a good cam call brian at hitech he will get you set up with something good. I do have a holley intake for sale if you are interested. Here is my new setup, PORTED AFR 185'S, HI TECH CAM, AND A PORT MATCHED EDELBROCK PERFORMER RPM, I AM HOPING TO GO HIGH TENS AT 125+ ON NITTO DRAG RADIALS.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
so whats the deal with the holley intake, i mean is it no good? also, dont the afr 185's come ported or something??
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
The Holley intake is a bit too large...even for a 347. Good HP up top, but at the sacrafice of low end grunt.
Edlebrock intakes are better suited for these engines.
Sure, you can make great numbers with the Holley, but you'd need the proper cam to take advantage & I'd definately be on the large side. A bit much for a street car/weekend warrior.

All AFR heads come CNC (computer numerically controled) ported.....from the 'factory'. However, there is still plenty of room for more port work.
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
pretty much like 93 pony said the holley intake does a pretty good job on the 347, but the edelbrock should show some good gains in the mid and hopefully even peak a tad higher than the holley. If I were running a blower i would stay with the holley.
 

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Posted by slow&poor (Member # 961) on :
 
Hey scott, did you see my car at school today. I was parked in the street near the courtyard.

[ August 20, 2002, 06:14 PM: Message edited by: slow&poor ]
 

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Posted by 1SLOWLX (Member # 558) on :
 
If you think you are going to buy a car for 5k and then dump 5k in it good luck. A proper built 347 costs a bit of money. If I were you I would just buy a car that is done and performs great at the track. IT is a lot cheaper and you don't have to deal with a huge headache. I have gone through it. My 347 took me quit a bit of time to getting running correctly with the supercharger. Now shit keeps happening. Even though you think parts are new they still go bad. That is the cost of high performance. Also if you are planning this machine to be a daily driver good luck
Albert
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
now the whole thing would be no fun if i bought some piece that somoene beat the shit out of, but i value your advice.....

slow&poor- no i didnt, ill have to look tomorrow...

93pony or camara- the performer rpm would work better then? what about this "spyder intake" i have heard about? info on that? thnx!
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Stick with a long runner intake like the edelbrocks. A spider intake is more of a power-adder intake, it generates most of it's power up top. The long runners will help low-end torque, yet still give impressive gains across the board.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
ok, i wanna get headers before that, what type should i get? Im SORT OF in the dark on what the different specs are on each (like long tube, shorties, etc). I just boughbt a bbk o/r x and dont want to have to resize it to fit different headers. Any suggestions?
 

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Posted by sic91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Well if you bought an off road x-pipe you have two choices of headers. You can get shortys or Equal Length headers. Get BBk whatever you do. Always try to match up the headers and the pipe for best fit. If I were you I would go with BBK Equal length headers. There a little harder to install and cost a bit more than shortys but will give you a little more high end hp.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Forget BBK. Seriously! Measure the 'ball-ends' of the H you just bought. I should measure 2.5 inches at the opening, garanteed it won't! It's probably around 2.25 inches. That's the restriction in the exhaust, you should grind/cut it out to 2.5 inches. Same with the headers + the BBK's have substantial welding flash inside the primaries, fine for stock heads with small ports, but a nice restriction when aftermarket heads are used. JBA has much better quality control, as well as the FRPP headers. Equal length isn't going to be much of a benifit & it's definately a pain to install.

For max power run the O/R pipe till you get the motor built, then sell it & buy Long-tubes & a 3 inch X....if you must smog it & know a place that isn't too observant you can get a custom made X with cats that'll alow you to pass the sniffer. Or you can swap exhaust every 2 years. Not really that big a deal....half a day's work by yourself.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
wait, so your saying the stock headers are gonna hold up on a car producing 600+ hp (thats after the supercharger, of course, but it will still be 400+ now)??
 

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Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
get jba UNEQUAL LENGTH headers, or bassani headers. those are the best. save your nuckles and dont get equal lengths
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
so whats the deal with "unequal length." im sort of lost. im thinking shorties come stock on the car, or is it equal length, i dont know.
 

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Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
equal length headers ass like 3 more hp, but are a bitch to put on.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
The basic types of headers for your car:
Shorties (un-equal stock type)
Shorty Eguals
Long-tubes (also equal length)

What I'm saying is sell the pipe & get the long-tubes with a matching X.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
well, i cant do that, just because it will be too much hasle at the current time. WHat im tryin to get at is what would be the best replacement headers that are the same as the stock size??
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
JBA shorties.
 

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Posted by cobraman_1994 (Member # 467) on :
 
thats what i have and i like them alot.
 

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Posted by 88gt (Member # 579) on :
 
This is not a flame at all, and people may think I'm a dick for saying this, but if you have this many questions, this may not be the motor for you right away. I'm just trying to help. I mean, if you don't know the difference between types of headers and little shit like that, you are getting in way over your head. In your first post you asked if the stroker's produced about 260 fly wheel hp. That would be the worst assembled 347 in history if it only put out 260 fly wheel. The motor in your new used car may even have that much power with bolt ons.
Sit down one day and make a price list of every part that you'll need, big stuff like the block and rotating assembly, heads, intake, cam, supercharger, aftercooler possibly, and then the little stuff including gaskets, oils, bolts, and what not. Then throw on labor, and throw in a few extra hundred bucks for stuff that will invevitably go wrong or get broken. If you're going to be pushing 600+ hp like you say, you'll also need a new kick ass fuel system and a good tune. Then there's the likely prospect of you killing yourself driving that car after driving a 6 banger around for a long time. I dont think you can even imagine what it would be like to drive 600 hp on the street, i know i can't. Ask Harold what it's like. You may want to start out smaller before you ape shit on this car. Again, this is not a flame, just something to think about. Good luck

P.S. Add tires to that list of mods because you'll be changing those more than your oil.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
I'd have to agree with 88gt.

If this car only has 87K miles, your best bet is to do a head/cam/intake swap & go from there. There is a STEEP learning curve...we all go through it.
A good HCI combo on a stock shortblock can easily make 300RWHP & that's plenty on the street & enough for 12's at the track.

I went from a 250HP GT to a 450+ Cobra & let me tell you I was NOT prepared! I went from 1-100 in 14 seconds to 1-100 in less than 9! Roll into the gas on the wrong corner & that's it...no more mustang.
 

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Posted by sic91sleeper (Member # 779) on :
 
Thats what I'm saving for currently for my 142,000 mile motor.

A Stock 302 rebuild with TFS heads, intake, and cam.

That should be low 13's for sure and high-mid 12's on the juice and or better.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
you guys arent understanding that its not a 347 engine, its just the kit for the 302 which doesnt supply nearly as much HP as the complete. I understand where your comin from and hey thats the reason there are mechanics who do the work for you. I know good people who could very well help me with the questions i ask but i figure i would post them up here to get quick reliable responses. I AM doing a "simple" head/intake/cam swap after i get the kit put on, so i dont think its that big of a deal.

Again, maybe im wrong, if i am well f*ck me, but this is my decision. thank you for the input though. that is, after all, why i post here.
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
what do you mean get your "kit put on"? A 347 is a whole new internal rotating assembly and there is block prep work that goes with it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you. You don't just buy the kit and put it on. There's lots of machine work that needs to be done as well as balancing it.
 

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Posted by quickV6stang (Member # 1061) on :
 
yeah i know that much about it...if i didnt know that then i would kick myself in the ass. Anyway, i might just have to go with a I/C/H deal now because i lost a grand that i had to put into the engine because it has to go to preping the rest of the car to be a stable ride.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Yep.. I think it'd be good if you picked up a book.
302 & 347 refer to the cubic inch displacement of the motor. Both have a 4-4.03 inch bore (diameter of the piston), but the 302 has a 3 inch stroke & the 347 has a 3.4 inch stroke. So a 347 requires a different crank, rods, & pistons....& that's what the 'kit' comes with. However, the only thing you'll be using from the 302 would be the block & really it'd probably be cheaper to just scrap the 302 & buy a 347 shortblock. If you use the stock E7TE heads, cam, & intake you'll be gaining far less than aftermarket HCI on the stock 302.
 

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Posted by White02GT (Member # 611) on :
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BlueV6stang:
[QB]GOD THAT WAS SOOOOO SWEET. THe show was a great turn out, but the cruise, that was something else. We have tons of footage on video tape, and we're just lookin it over now...

Btw, thanks for stopping every once in a while along the cruise for everyone to meet up, we got seperated in certain parts a lot, and it was a big help. Anyone gonna be putting videos up soon?

That was a quote from after the original fosters freeze cruise. I was the car right in front of you, so I figured I would bring this back to show others. I'm not trying to start anything, but these are your own words.
 

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Posted by PeNiNsula302 (Member # 1061) on :
 
i dont have any clue wtf your point is? honestly im really absolutely 100% lost in what your trying to prove? you brought up a post from months back at the foster freeze show about how im saying it was a good cruise and i got lots of footage? riiiight.

[ August 26, 2002, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: PeNiNsula302 ]
 

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Posted by White02GT (Member # 611) on :
 
If you were all over the road in your 99 v6, you probably shouldn't build this monster of a car until you can handle the power.
 

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Posted by PeNiNsula302 (Member # 1061) on :
 
thats called the way i was driving, just like everyone else has their own fun, thats just how i drove. i could handle that v6 power like fucking nothing, i learned it from driving it every single day from july '01 to last week. I was hipped up and fuckin around. I can handle the power plenty fine, thats why im staying in the 13's for a while like described on my other post about t-lok and computers. Fuck if i was that stupid i would throw a vortec on right now and a 150 shot then boom.

Dont say i couldnt handle my car, because you dont know me, you saw me drive once, and i was fucking around, on roads that i knew were secluded. Not trying to start anything back, just letting you know whats up.
 

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Posted by White02GT (Member # 611) on :
 
That's fine, I didn't say you couldn't drive, but you just won't see me in the car in front or behind you at any of the up coming cruises. Good luck with the car.
 

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Posted by PeNiNsula302 (Member # 1061) on :
 
sounds fine to me, i knew i probably scared the shit out of you and the other guy behind me, we were laughin our ass'es off about it. gl
 

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