quote:

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Originally posted by Scott98Cobra:
I am scheduled to have my car dyno tuned by Byron at Apex in SantaClara. I have heard very good things about his abilities and results, but someone mentioned to me that I ought to ask on this board because there might be some info that you all have that is different. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has had him do a tune on your car and what the results have been.

A reply at your earliest convenience would be appreciated since my appt is coming up soon.

Thanks!

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well I dont think any one here is goin to have anything bad to say about his tuning

he knows what he is doing

he has helped with some base tunes I have no comaplains

this past weekend he dynoed wicke281

who made 627rwhp out of his 99 cobra
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
is a custom dyno tune session a good idea on a largely stock car with no power adder? just curious.

I've heard great things about him myself, and basically he seems to be all the bay area has
 

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Posted by 99gt-UJSTLST (Member # 584) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by shade-tree:
is a custom dyno tune session a good idea on a largely stock car with no power adder? just curious.

I've heard great things about him myself, and basically he seems to be all the bay area has

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to me on a stock car I would say no
I mean you will see like maybe 10-20 rwhp
but it would be more on the lower end
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
Byron did me right
 

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Posted by rob (Member # 50) on :
 
if byron tuned your car, aaron...
why is it all blowed up?
isn't head gasket failure (or worse) a sign of a bad tune/detonation?
 

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Posted by 99gt-UJSTLST (Member # 584) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by rob:
if byron tuned your car, aaron...
why is it all blowed up?
isn't head gasket failure (or worse) a sign of a bad tune/detonation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by rob:
if byron tuned your car, aaron...
why is it all blowed up?
isn't head gasket failure (or worse) a sign of a bad tune/detonation?

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quote:

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Originally posted by WIKD 281:
Scott98cobra> Byron is defintely a good tuner> I have nothing bad to say about him> he is very qualified and knows what he is doing. I would wait to tune untill you have all the mods. that you are going to put on. Once you tune> if you later add on something else you may affect the tune that you just spent some large money on. Do you plan on more bolt ons for the future> blower> NOS> upper intake?

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SO hey when you goin to the track
I want to see what the MARK is goin to be

need to know how much NOS to add lol J/K
 

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Posted by StoplightWarrior (Member # 211) on :
 
He's a good guy, but he only did mail order chip for me, and honestly, I wasn't too happy with it overall. Maybe if he did some quality dyno tuning I would have benifitted more from it.
 

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Posted by WIKD 281 (Member # 40) on :
 
he he> the track will defintaley be after the car show at the end of this month> then its time for some slicks and some balls to launch@6000rpm's
Carefull with the NOS bro! That could lead to another Kaboom!
Later.
 

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Posted by 89hatchback_lx (Member # 587) on :
 


[ June 12, 2002, 09:02 PM: Message edited by: 89hatchback_lx ]
 

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Posted by 99gt-UJSTLST (Member # 584) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by WIKD 281:
he he> the track will defintaley be after the car show at the end of this month> then its time for some slicks and some balls to launch@6000rpm's
Carefull with the NOS bro! That could lead to another Kaboom!
Later.

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I'm just playing me add NOS on top of 18 psi No way not right now I want to enjoy my ride for a year or 2 then will see once I have money to do my next set up with a 5.4 and my NOVI 2000 maxed out at 29 psi

but for now hopeing the 18psi is enough to get me to 600 rwhp will see though
 

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Posted by Chris_67_SC_408 (Member # 936) on :
 
99gt-UJSTLST,

Are you planning on runnig 18 lbs with 91 octane?

Also, can Byron tune a DFI car or does he just stick to factory ecu's with chips?
 

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Posted by 99gt-UJSTLST (Member # 584) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Chris_67_SC_408:
99gt-UJSTLST,

Are you planning on runnig 18 lbs with 91 octane?

Also, can Byron tune a DFI car or does he just stick to factory ecu's with chips?

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No it will be runing on 91 really conservative tune AND 104 race tune
goin to get a switch chip

I dont now if he tunes DFI you might want to email him and ask him
 

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Posted by Byron (Member # 89) on :
 
Dyno tuning, blown up engines, mail order chips, and other things of interest....

Dyno tuning an engine does not guarantee it will not fail, nor does it bulletproof the EFI system in any way. Failures can, and will happen.

Dyno tuning simply provides a means by which the air/fuel ratio and timing advance functions of the processor can be dialed in and/or verified. Usually, when dyno tuning, discoveries are made pertaining to the health of the fuel system or special timing advance needs of the engine in order to achieve peak power without detonation and without excessively lean mixtures. And, it gives you an environment by which you can verify these things to avoid future problems. Most supercharged engines benefit greatly by dyno tuning...both in power production and longevity.

However, I constantly see cars come to the dyno that I frankly am worried about...and hesitant to tune. Here's a few examples:

A typical supercharged 99GT with a box-stock Vortech kit will arrive. Every single one of these cars run lean above 5000RPM because they use a factory mass-air meter that pegs at 300rwhp. And, almost every one detonates badly in the mid-band on our fuel. They almost always are still running platinum plugs (a big no-no for supercharged cars). So, the car arrives with a few thousand detonation miles on it, and the pistons have seen extreme exhaust temperatures due to the lean mixtures as well. The car is making 330-350rwhp and the owner wants it tuned for power with pistons that look like the craters of the moon. So, now I have the job of taking a likely damaged engine, and tune it for more power? My choices are to deny the job and guarantee engine failure, or take the job and fix/tune the car. So, I do my best to educate the owner as to the likely condition of his engine, and if I get agreement/understanding, we proceed. If the engine fails, the owner knows why. Usually, once the mixture is fixed and the detonation stops, the engine lives a long happy life. But, sometimes the damage is already done and there is no saving it. In fact, about once every month or so I see one of these cars arrive for tuning that is chugging smoke out of the breather...too late.

Another scenerio is when a customer is pushing the mechanical limits of the engine. I get a lot of 200K mile boneyard 5.0L engines with 15+PSI of boost making 470+rwhp after tuning. Or, supercharged stock mod motors making over 470rwhp. You simply can't do this for long and expect to get away with it. Again, I do my best to advise the owner, and if they wish to proceed I will help them.

I can give probably a dozen such examples. The bottom line is that there is no way for a tuner to prevent what can happen to an engine before it it tuned, nor is there any way to prevent a failure when the mechanical design limits of the engine are approached.

And, of course, there is always the "unknown" or "freak" failure. A T-Rex in-line pump can stop running and grenade a supercharged engine in the matter of a few seconds. (I've seen that). A throttle body screw can fall off and cause a valve seat to dislodge and fall into the engine (I've seen that). Injectors can stick shut. MAF's can fail. Any sensor wire can come loose. Let's face it, there is any number of things that can happen to a perfectly tuned, perfectly built engine to cause it to spontaneously disassemble. Unfortunately, as a tuner, I'm a target for blame whenever something like this happens...whether I deserve it or not.

I'm not saying it's impossible to mis-tune an engine. It is possible. We had a situation a year ago where a wideband sensor was reading 1AFR too rich and I tuned 3 cars at 13:1 AFR. Luckily, there was no damage, but I promptly called the owners and informed them...and got the vehicles back. We also discovered why the sensor went bad. Someone was running leaded fuel. And, there's always the possiblity of making a keyboarding error or simply making a human mistake. I'm not beyond that, but I can honestly say that I've made damn few mistakes like this over the years...I am quite careful.

Lastly, mail order chips... There is *no way* to predict what a mail order chip will do for a particular engine. All a tuner can do is *assume* some baseline fueling values for an engine and make a best guess for timing. That guess could be off an inch or a mile; every car is different. If I do a mail-order chip, it is merely an educated guess. And, because of this, I offer a 30-day no-questions money-back. If anyone isn't happy with one of my mail-order chips, simply return it for a full refund. And, over the years, I have refunded at least 5. Mail order chips are not nearly as good as dyno tuning. The reason is that every car has different needs.

So guys, all I can say is that I'll take what you bring me and do the very best I can with it. I am not a "lean&mean" or "glory" tuner. I don't put the hardware at risk to hit a magic dyno number, and I don't do things that I wouldn't do to my own car. I've tuned over 500 cars to date, and if you add up ALL of the engine failures that occurred from those vehicles and compare that percentage to the number of engine failures that occurred on un-tuned vehicles, I think you'd find that the tuning process is quite beneficial. There's a reason the supercharger companies and local engine builders send us cars for dyno tuning. They have reduced the number of failures dramatically, while offering the customer an engine that hits power numbers they were not able to previously achieve. I did not lobby them, and I have never advertised. They discovered this on thier own.

If anyone has any questions about my practices and wants to hear from me, feel free to email me. I respond within 24 hours.

Thanks for the air time, I hope this helps.

Byron Reynolds
RACE Systems
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
I fully understand what Byron has said in his post and I don't want anyone to think that any of my current problems are because of the tune. IT'S NOT THE TUNE!!! I suspected head gaskets because of a heat up incident after the re-doing of the intake manifold. I had suspected it because of some bubbles in the overflow tank but people said not to worry about it. I had it tuned and ran the car hard and now they are probably gone. I went to Byron to make sure the car was tuned and to make some power. Headgaskets are a part of the game and there's always risk. I know if for any reason it's the gasket's then it's MY fault and NOT the tune. I will be pulling the heads and most likely upgrading to the 185's and RPM intake and I'll be back at the Ranch for another tune and dyno run. I just don't want to be associated with someone thinking my car blew up because of the chip I got. NOT TRUE.
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
hey if you want to borrow an rpm intake at some point just let me know. My car is down more often than not, and it's got a completely different motor in it right now anyways.

(I have that professional products RPM intake knockoff, and all the bolts and the gaskets of course)
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
Cool, only problem is that my car is down too At some point I'd like to see what the difference is. I think I'd like the RPM better because it has 8 bolts securing the upper to the lower, doesn't have the bolt inside, and you can take off the valve covers without removing the upper (so I hear????). And of course any top end power I can get. After my peak at 5800 it dropped 15 RWHP at 6000. I'd like to carry it a few hundred more before dropping.
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
the valve covers are kinda tight--- but if you want to, you will be able to squeeze by the throttle cable thingy if you pop off the cable first. the driver side is a cinch.
 

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Posted by PunkINa5.SLOW (Member # 10) on :
 
Byron I wouldnt sweat it. The folks that arrogant or ignorant enough to think that your tune is what killed their car....I dont think you need or want them as a customer.

With your proven track record you shouldnt worry or even be defending yourself.

Matter of fact from what I have seen and know I think you give 110% to customer satisfaction and that is what matters.
 

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Posted by Blu50Stang (Member # 489) on :
 
All I know is Byron is gonna dyno tune my new motor when it's done and broken in. What Byron said should be taken as nothing less than common sense(IMO). I've NEVER heard anything bad about his tunes, nor can I see how he would want to give a customer a poor tune. My car is my baby and my motor will not be cheap. Im building it...so if it breaks, it's my fault...that's how I like it.
 

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Posted by rob (Member # 50) on :
 
i'm planning on having my car tuned by byron, that's why i asked. you said you got it tuned, then shortly afterward, your car is out of comission. it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to put two and two together and ask the pointed question.

i really couldn't possibly afford to do this more than once, so you might say i'm doing my homework.

so, until you pull the heads on that car, you really don't know what happened, you're just guessing, and guessing doesn't build racing motors...

the truth is in there!
(x-files, anyone?)

hurry up and pull those heads so i can make an apointment, eh?

 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by rob:
i'm planning on having my car tuned by byron, that's why i asked. you said you got it tuned, then shortly afterward, your car is out of comission. it doesn't take a rocket-scientist to put two and two together and ask the pointed question.

i really couldn't possibly afford to do this more than once, so you might say i'm doing my homework.

so, until you pull the heads on that car, you really don't know what happened, you're just guessing, and guessing doesn't build racing motors...

the truth is in there!
(x-files, anyone?)

hurry up and pull those heads so i can make an apointment, eh?

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LOL
 

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Posted by JSHTROD (Member # 299) on :
 
Byron,

I hear you and understand what you're trying to say. I respect that.

But I have heard a LOT of guys loosing a motor AFTER they tune with you. Funny enough, these same guys will praise you, right after the failure. LOL. You must make one hellofa impression.

At the same time, I hear a LOT of stock kits that last a while. Specifically, Vortec kits. It seems that if you use a stock kit, and boost, the motor has no problems lasting 50k+ miles.

Perhaps your tune is not at fault. Perhaps these stock mod motors have VERY FINITE mechanical limits. So, anything after XXXhp you're really taking your chances.

But for whatever reason, there is a definate link between 'Byrons Tune' + Stock motor = Ticking time bomb.
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
see you on page 4 after that!
 

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Posted by yipnip5.0 (Member # 175) on :
 
I dont know why, but i found this relic through a search, and though it is old, it seems worth reopening:

JSHTROD: Can you name one or two of the "LOT" of people you know who lost motors after Byrons tuning?! Or is this just something your buddies buddy told you happened to his buddy, multipled and exagerated by a factory of 5?

quote:

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Originally posted by JSHTROD:
Byron,

I hear you and understand what you're trying to say. I respect that.

But I have heard a LOT of guys loosing a motor AFTER they tune with you. Funny enough, these same guys will praise you, right after the failure. LOL. You must make one hellofa impression.

At the same time, I hear a LOT of stock kits that last a while. Specifically, Vortec kits. It seems that if you use a stock kit, and boost, the motor has no problems lasting 50k+ miles.

Perhaps your tune is not at fault. Perhaps these stock mod motors have VERY FINITE mechanical limits. So, anything after XXXhp you're really taking your chances.

But for whatever reason, there is a definate link between 'Byrons Tune' + Stock motor = Ticking time bomb.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yipnip5.0:
I dont know why, but i found this relic through a search, and though it is old, it seems worth reopening:

JSHTROD: Can you name one or two of the "LOT" of people you know who lost motors after Byrons tuning?! Or is this just something your buddies buddy told you happened to his buddy, multipled and exagerated by a factory of 5?

quote:

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Originally posted by JSHTROD:
Byron,

I hear you and understand what you're trying to say. I respect that.

But I have heard a LOT of guys loosing a motor AFTER they tune with you. Funny enough, these same guys will praise you, right after the failure. LOL. You must make one hellofa impression.

At the same time, I hear a LOT of stock kits that last a while. Specifically, Vortec kits. It seems that if you use a stock kit, and boost, the motor has no problems lasting 50k+ miles.

Perhaps your tune is not at fault. Perhaps these stock mod motors have VERY FINITE mechanical limits. So, anything after XXXhp you're really taking your chances.

But for whatever reason, there is a definate link between 'Byrons Tune' + Stock motor = Ticking time bomb.

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Hahahaha! lol!Well All I can say out of experience is that byrons custom chip saved my ass ton's of headachs and problems after dyno tuning it. Before the tune my car pinged anytime I got on it. My car would just predetonate at as low as 2500rpm's. this detonation was on my 95GT with heads, cam, intake, fuel, exhaust, etc. After chip oh my god it was the greatest feeling getting on my car up to 6000rpm's without any detonation. I swear my car felt and also sounded healthier after the tune. i highly recommend this to anyone that is done with there aftermarket combo's. As for byron's tuning leading to blown motors is Bullshit!!!his tuning didn't blow s**t it was your led foot that didn't get off the gas pedal when it was time for the next gear.
 

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Posted by Mr Paint Job (Member # 1708) on :
 

quote:

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'Byrons Tune' + Stock motor = Ticking time bomb.

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