This is topic PAGING ST5150 in forum Tech Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
Hey bro i got some questions for you, i am having some form of an electrical issue and cant quite get to the bottom of it. I tried changing mass air, tps, and regrounding the sensor each time the car would run for about ten minutes with the chip in and then at full throttle just fall on its face, and only idle. If you hit the gas it seems like it is extremely lean and pinging real bad. I even tried swapping in aarons computer which was a A9M, mine is a A9L though and the same problem occured with the chip in imeediatly after startup. With the chip out with my computer the car will run but the check engine light is on, it can be on for various reasons such as no egr vacum and so on. But when i step on the gas the car will stumble and shake like it has no fuel, and other times run fine. it seems to run better with no codes when it is cold. Coul it be the cooling sending sensor off of the coolant line on the intake, or the air sensor also on the intake? I also get a code 66 which says bad mass air voltage. This thing is really becoming a pain in the ass, is their any help you could give me?

Sorry its so long!
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Sounds like an odd problem...possible more than one problem. I assume you cleaned the connector on the EEC/chip already? What do you mean by "regrounding the sensor"? The only real hint I have here is the 10 minute deal... and the existing codes. When you said you changed the MAF, did you change the eleconics as well (If its a C&L)? A 66 code isn't very common, but two simple things can cause it, either something is blocking the air filter/MAF, or the car abruptly dies for some reason (while you're playing around under the hood, ect). Back to the 10 minute thing... it could possible be the O2 sensors. After the MAF, I'd look at the O2 sensors. Did this problem start after your header swap? How did you extend the O2's for long tubes? Double check their ground. Its the white/brown-ish wire that screws to the back of the drivers side cylinder head. If the car acts up at WOT though, it kinda rules out the O2 sensors. The ACT and ECT are also things that can take 10 minutes to warm up before the EEC starts listening to them. They're easy to swap. I believe the ACT and ECT are the same for V8 stangs, lincolns and thunderbirds if you go pick-n-pull pocketing.

If you really want to help, take out the chip, pull the battery for 20 seconds to clear all existing codes... then run the engine on test and get those codes. Drive the car for 10 miles and pull the engine off/memory codes and come back and post both of them.

I think my post came out longer than yours... so let me give you the short version...

Plan A) swap 'til you drop in this order:

1- MAF electroncics
2- O2's
3- ECT ( ECT controls timing and a little fuel)
4- ACT (ACT controls more timing than anything)

Plan B) Pull the codes how I said above and lets see if it eliminates or introduces any more possibilites.

-Sawson
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
hey thanks for the help bro ill let you know how things turn out, and probably have some more questions!!

Thanks
 

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Posted by 89hatchback_lx (Member # 587) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Camara90:
hey thanks for the help bro ill let you know how things turn out, and probably have some more questions!!

Thanks

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Hey Camara90,
You dont know me but i was just curiouse about your compression on your block. If you dont mind me asking?
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
Sawson- I thought I would give the ACT and the ECT sensors a try but still have the same problem. I currently have a pro-m 75mm on at the moment and will try my old c&l to see what happens. I did get new 02 sensors recently but I had them before my dyno tune and have had them connected for a while. I just cut and resolderd the wires to extend them, and electrical taped them off, i made sure to connect the proper white wires to eachother on both 02's when extening them since they had to whites on each sensor.

Do these chips have some form of a protection mode to where they will shut down if something is wrong? Joe at mustang ranch said it could be my service board is bad because i noticed when i first removed the chip that two of the four wires comming of the chip that they tape up had wire slightly exposed.
Also is the 02 sensors ground the wire that comes out of all the wires behind the intake? If so it is grounded at the head along with the other ground strap.

Sorry to ask so many questions its just I really am stummped on this one, and want to get the car running to make some passes with my new et streets.

Thanks
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
89 hatchback the compression is around 10.3 to 10.4.
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
Sawson,

Mike borrowed my brand new Pro M 75mm mass air and it ran fine for about 10 minutes like he said and a few WOT bursts. It ran AWESOME for a few gears but then it just shut down on him and will barely even run. All this happened 3 days or so after the header swap. He tried my computer like he said. Nothing happened. Tried my TPS sensor and it ran fine for another 10 minutes and bam, back to running like crap. This is one complex issue. Nothing seems to help and when it does it's very temporary. I've never seen or heard of anything like this.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Mike- As far as I know, the chip itself doesn't have a protection mode, but I don't think I understand what you're saying about the wires.

Sounds like you have your O2 sensors grounded properly.

I assume you made good solder connections on the O2 sensors. The nickle plating on the O2 sensor wires needs a good amount of heat and flux to solder well. Its very brittle wire as well.

What bout the EEC's ground? Its the black wire grounded to the inside of the fender between the washier fluid cap and the battery. Make sure thats clean.

Aaron- Odd problem in deed. Thats why I'm thinking its something universal like a bad ground, or its two bad sensors. Another thing you can try is unplugging sensors and letting the EEC work around it to help isolate the problem.

With that said, produce the codes like I said earlier .... and re-read everything I've said above and make sure you give each thing a shot. I know I've listed a lot of stuff, but many of them don't take long to try.
 

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Posted by shade-tree (Member # 298) on :
 
it's really counter-productive to guess w/out knowing what codes the computer is spitting out, KEOR being most important!
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
I swapped back to the old 02 sensors and same problem, the car would barely even start with the chip in. I then swapped mass air meters to my old c&l 73 and the car started with teh chip in and idled real funny.I then went around teh block and the car was backifiring, and running bad. I then attempted to try it without the chip and the car ran like shit without it. It would always run better without the chip until i swapped to the c&l. I then put the 75mm back on and the car will run without the chip but not at all with it, it wont rev past 600rpm. I think my computer is messed up and I will probably try swapping it out with a new one.

THIS SUCKS!!

Thanks for all the help though.
 

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Posted by Camara90 (Member # 134) on :
 
I swapped back to the old 02 sensors and same problem, the car would barely even start with the chip in. I then swapped mass air meters to my old c&l 73 and the car started with teh chip in and idled real funny.I then went around teh block and the car was backifiring, and running bad. I then attempted to try it without the chip and the car ran like shit without it. It would always run better without the chip until i swapped to the c&l. I then put the 75mm back on and the car will run without the chip but not at all with it, it wont rev past 600rpm. I think my computer is messed up and I will probably try swapping it out with a new one.

THIS SUCKS!!

Thanks for all the help though.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
Won't rev past 600 RPM?

Did you try pulling the codes with out the chip in there? If the computer is fried, you'll get a code like 15 (with out the chip). Sounds like you have a ground or short or some other wiring harness problem to me.
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 
I rememebered something else..... cleaned your 10 pin connectors lately?
 

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Posted by 66 InjectedCobra (Member # 819) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:
I rememebered something else..... cleaned your 10 pin connectors lately?

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What is that Bro?
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 66 InjectedCobra:

quote:

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Originally posted by st5150:
I rememebered something else..... cleaned your 10 pin connectors lately?

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What is that Bro?

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Two black and white connectors in the back of the intake with lots of wires coming from them. They look like salt&pepper shakers and you can't miss them.
 

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Posted by 66 InjectedCobra (Member # 819) on :
 
OHHH the injector harness connectors
 

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Posted by st5150 (Member # 51) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 66 InjectedCobra:
OHHH the injector harness connectors

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Yup, injectors are some of those wires.
 

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Posted by 66 InjectedCobra (Member # 819) on :
 
Yeah and ACT, ECT...
Gimmy an email W/ the info for Saturday morn if you could
Thanks a great deal Bro
 

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Posted by AaronC (Member # 86) on :
 
sawson this is mike posting under aarons name, what do you cleaqn those connectors with?
 

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Posted by PunkINa5.SLOW (Member # 10) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AaronC:
sawson this is mike posting under aarons name, what do you cleaqn those connectors with?

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