This is topic 347 vs 351 in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by 1fastnotch (Member # 13686) on :
 
So I have a shell I will soon be looking to buy a motor for, wondering if 347 is the way to go or going 351w worth all the extra work?
 
Posted by CoyoteMaster (Member # 13680) on :
 
351w efi [burnout] [dance]
 
Posted by LXjames (Member # 10791) on :
 
What are your goals?
 
Posted by Sinister Mustang (Member # 13889) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1fastnotch:
So I have a shell I will soon be looking to buy a motor for, wondering if 347 is the way to go or going 351w worth all the extra work?
Hey 1fastnotch,

You really can't go wrong with either setup. I plan to do a 408 stroker / TKO 600 / built 8.8 in my 67. its all personal preference. The 347 is still going to make decent power.

I hope this helps,

Thanks,

- Michael
 
Posted by kingdavid (Member # 11179) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1fastnotch:
So I have a shell I will soon be looking to buy a motor for, wondering if 347 is the way to go or going 351w worth all the extra work?
I would go the 351W route stronger block and more options I built a 408W because I wanted more power out of my 302 and was at the limits of my 302. But it all comes down to what your trying to build.
 
Posted by Duncan Motors (Member # 7045) on :
 
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
 
Posted by NEIGHT (Member # 8741) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
Is that right?
 
Posted by 92_5.0 (Member # 7624) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
bold statement lol
 
Posted by Duncan Motors (Member # 7045) on :
 
3 years plus strong bouncing off teh rev limiter with 500 rear hp. just saying. destroyed a couple hundred tires already easy. nay sayers having anything running? or have proved anything to question such a bold statement? I built and drove the 347 and 331, with dam near every head combo blown or not, from edelbrock to afr an trick flow, unless its some big bore stroked kit with over ten racks in just the long block you might come close or be better. even built Erics 9 second coupe stroked 351, that can prove a bit more. but for a budget running stock blocks, you can not beat it. unless you got something running and can prove its reliability, Im not into engine stand racing. so keep that talk in the garage where your car is on jack stands still.
 
Posted by a302juGRnot (Member # 10163) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
3 years plus strong bouncing off teh rev limiter with 500 rear hp. just saying. destroyed a couple hundred tires already easy. nay sayers having anything running? or have proved anything to question such a bold statement? I built and drove the 347 and 331, with dam near every head combo blown or not, from edelbrock to afr an trick flow, unless its some big bore stroked kit with over ten racks in just the long block you might come close or be better. even built Erics 9 second coupe stroked 351, that can prove a bit more. but for a budget running stock blocks, you can not beat it. unless you got something running and can prove its reliability, Im not into engine stand racing. so keep that talk in the garage where your car is on jack stands still.
Dayum! I like it.

[ 2015-04-15, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: a302juGRnot ]
 
Posted by SLOWBACK 67 (Member # 6348) on :
 
Jon if your ever out at the track on a wednesday and I'm there, I want to go for a ride in that thing. [patriot]
 
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on :
 
351 into 408 stroker is my vote. Can handle more than 450rwhp without cracking the block, you can make 450rwhp with a mild streetable cam and to make 450rwhp on a 347 ur gonna need a big aggressive cam not so streetable.

The only only difference is your going to spend an extra $600 on some 205cc heads for a 408 over some 185cc heads that you would use on a 347.. every other part in the engine cost the same. .stroker kit, balancer etc....
 
Posted by ItzStock (Member # 9665) on :
 
I agree with Jon. I wouldn't waste my time or money on a 302 if I had the option to build a 351. It is not even a lot of extra work to swap to a 351.

I've done the 302 and 302 stroker combos and I wouldn't go back to a 302 base

[ 2015-04-15, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: ItzStock ]
 
Posted by 90GT510 (Member # 9199) on :
 
Would a 351 or 408w work with a t5 or would it just destroy it?

[ 2015-04-15, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: 90GT510 ]
 
Posted by SLOWBACK 67 (Member # 6348) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 90GT510:
Would a 351 or 408w work with a t5 or would it just destroy it?
It will go out on you alot faster with something makkng more low end torqe. TKO 600 and don't look back.
 
Posted by theconductor (Member # 13458) on :
 
I've been pondering this same question lately. Keep up the dialogue!

How about the cost of each?
 
Posted by 1fastnotch (Member # 13686) on :
 
My goal is to be fast haha but not looking to spend a fortune, maybe about 5k for engine and tranny
 
Posted by kingdavid (Member # 11179) on :
 
5k won't get you their.
 
Posted by carajo-1 (Member # 13991) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 1fastnotch:
So I have a shell I will soon be looking to buy a motor for, wondering if 347 is the way to go ,i only have 5g's for "stroker"short block,heads,tranny,clutch,headers,intake and all the little shit that adds up..or going 351w worth all the extra work/money?
Fixed it for you.
 
Posted by hurting your feelings (Member # 13641) on :
 
Norman an Lee have both gone in to nine with a stock 302 block. An Norman did over a decade ago.

An any ford mass production Windsor based block is a ticking time bomb.
 
Posted by 1fastnotch (Member # 13686) on :
 
I got 5k for engine and tranny, knowing is only about half of what is needed to spend smart guy
 
Posted by 92_5.0 (Member # 7624) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
3 years plus strong bouncing off teh rev limiter with 500 rear hp. just saying. destroyed a couple hundred tires already easy. nay sayers having anything running? or have proved anything to question such a bold statement? I built and drove the 347 and 331, with dam near every head combo blown or not, from edelbrock to afr an trick flow, unless its some big bore stroked kit with over ten racks in just the long block you might come close or be better. even built Erics 9 second coupe stroked 351, that can prove a bit more. but for a budget running stock blocks, you can not beat it. unless you got something running and can prove its reliability, Im not into engine stand racing. so keep that talk in the garage where your car is on jack stands still.
Nice, I wasn't trying to call your bluff, it just sounded like a bold statement is all. I too would like to see that thing at the track man. My next engine will probably be a 351 based n/a platform
 
Posted by KARATExxCHUCK (Member # 12851) on :
 
I want to build a 351. Haha

Charles [patriot]
 
Posted by 66_5.0 (Member # 9974) on :
 
I have a 347 going in my '66 [Big Grin] . So I say 347
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
How so?

[ 2015-04-22, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: East Bay 50 ]
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
If you use quality parts to build a 347 it will last just fine. The problem is that a lot of folks try to go the cheap route and get big power with stock blocks and mismatched parts and for whatever reason are SHOCKED! when things don't work out for them
 
Posted by 1SLOWLX (Member # 558) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
I dunno my na 347 built almost 10 years ago probably longer I think is still running strong a memeber on the board now owns it
12.2 at 116 coming off the line at idle was pretty good back then especially since it had the stock rear end with just gears
 
Posted by TEXAS (Member # 11875) on :
 
There's no replacement for displacement
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
How so?
Because any stock block built 302 is on borrowed time @ 500RWHP unless its been cemented
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
Norman an Lee have both gone in to nine with a stock 302 block. An Norman did over a decade ago.

An any ford mass production Windsor based block is a ticking time bomb.
very rare to find a 351w block broken in half like a 302

common for them to live @ 700rhwp
 
Posted by hurting your feelings (Member # 13641) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
Norman an Lee have both gone in to nine with a stock 302 block. An Norman did over a decade ago.

An any ford mass production Windsor based block is a ticking time bomb.
very rare to find a 351w block broken in half like a 302

common for them to live @ 700rhwp
roller 351 Windsor blocks Crack in the valley of the lifters an the mains walk with anything over 500hp.
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
Norman an Lee have both gone in to nine with a stock 302 block. An Norman did over a decade ago.

An any ford mass production Windsor based block is a ticking time bomb.
very rare to find a 351w block broken in half like a 302

common for them to live @ 700rhwp
roller 351 Windsor blocks Crack in the valley of the lifters an the mains walk with anything over 500hp.
any year 351 will go 700hp. and the mains will probably go before the block cracks.

with a turbo, 800hp isn't out of the question.
 
Posted by hurting your feelings (Member # 13641) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
Norman an Lee have both gone in to nine with a stock 302 block. An Norman did over a decade ago.

An any ford mass production Windsor based block is a ticking time bomb.
very rare to find a 351w block broken in half like a 302

common for them to live @ 700rhwp
roller 351 Windsor blocks Crack in the valley of the lifters an the mains walk with anything over 500hp.
any year 351 will go 700hp. and the mains will probably go before the block cracks.

with a turbo, 800hp isn't out of the question.
I guess if you read it on the Internet it must be true.
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
Norman an Lee have both gone in to nine with a stock 302 block. An Norman did over a decade ago.

An any ford mass production Windsor based block is a ticking time bomb.
very rare to find a 351w block broken in half like a 302

common for them to live @ 700rhwp
roller 351 Windsor blocks Crack in the valley of the lifters an the mains walk with anything over 500hp.
any year 351 will go 700hp. and the mains will probably go before the block cracks.

with a turbo, 800hp isn't out of the question.
I guess if you read it on the Internet it must be true.
[Roll Eyes] no, actually experience with people who build them for a living, Woody the owner of Fordstrokers in particular who I spoke to and had this exact discussion. would me showing you a dyno sheet change your beliefs?

[ 2015-04-22, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Saleen 00-768 ]
 
Posted by hurting your feelings (Member # 13641) on :
 
Show me a 351 stock block that is pushing 700-800 hp
for a whole race session an that's going to the race track at least 2 to 3 weekends an run a full event ever time.
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
Show me a 351 stock block that is pushing 700-800 hp
for a whole race session an that's going to the race track at least 2 to 3 weekends an run a full event ever time.
and then that will change your beliefs? if that's the case you shouldn't be commenting on what a 351 can and cant do.

show me all the broken 351 blocks you speak of? is it possible? yes absolutely, but I guarantee a 351 will last longer @ 700hp than a 302 @ 500hp.
 
Posted by LXjames (Member # 10791) on :
 
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1352369-must-read-psa-windsor-roller-block-guys.html#/forumsite/20549/topics/1352369?page=6
 
Posted by NEIGHT (Member # 8741) on :
 
I didn't know a stock block 302 was mentioned, I read any 302 based motor which also doesn't imply it has to be a 302.
 
Posted by ed650 (Member # 9897) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LXjames:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1352369-must-read-psa-windsor-roller-block-guys.html#/forumsite/20549/topics/1352369?page=6
69-74 blocks ftw.
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by LXjames:
http://forums.corral.net/forums/5-0-5-8-engine-tech/1352369-must-read-psa-windsor-roller-block-guys.html#/forumsite/20549/topics/1352369?page=6
Yep, I definately wouldn't do a 700hp build with a block that has a crack in it even though most machine shops would consider the block still useable. Pretty big difference compared to a 302 block broken in half.
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by NEIGHT:
I didn't know a stock block 302 was mentioned, I read any 302 based motor which also doesn't imply it has to be a 302.
If you're talking about a build with an after market block that cost atleast twice as much as a a 351? Lol, then yeah it will hold more power.
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
How so?
Because any stock block built 302 is on borrowed time @ 500RWHP unless its been cemented
Good thing I have a DART block 347...
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
How so?
Because any stock block built 302 is on borrowed time @ 500RWHP unless its been cemented
Good thing I have a DART block 347...
Yep, thats what its gonna take to handle the same power or more than a 351. Should we also compare the cost of your dart block to a 351?
 
Posted by Duncan Motors (Member # 7045) on :
 
hurting your feelings has two guys that did something cool, and how much money did they have in it? how many special tricks did it take? put those same tricks on a 351, same amount of money in the 351, same girdle, same cement. even lee said it, he wouldn't mention it cause he had over ten in it like I mentioned not to mention lol. plus if i said it dave is just gona hate for the sake of a arguement. Its not rocket science to know a 351 is stronger, an can put out more power, has somebody done empressive things with a 302? or smaller based stock blocks, yeah i bet there some impressive lucky numbers. lee will tell you he made 500 and he did, as he preys to god it didn't blow as well. somebody found out how to sqeeze every inch of life out of a 302 on borrowed time an I commend them for it, but no body that's done it will recommend it to anybody else, its like yeah they did it but,,,,,,, lol. how many split in half 302 blocks is there? and how many split in half 351 is there,,,,,,,,,, a big difference, the argument now is just for sake of arguing.
 
Posted by East Bay 50 (Member # 8081) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
How so?
Because any stock block built 302 is on borrowed time @ 500RWHP unless its been cemented
Good thing I have a DART block 347...
Yep, thats what its gonna take to handle the same power or more than a 351. Should we also compare the cost of your dart block to a 351?
The cost don't bother me at all. Having a solid combo that I know wont break and can handle over 1000hp makes happy [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Saleen 00-768 (Member # 9379) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Saleen 00-768:
quote:
Originally posted by East Bay 50:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
my 351 runs circles around any 302 based motor. and it wont blow up.
How so?
Because any stock block built 302 is on borrowed time @ 500RWHP unless its been cemented
Good thing I have a DART block 347...
Yep, thats what its gonna take to handle the same power or more than a 351. Should we also compare the cost of your dart block to a 351?
The cost don't bother me at all. Having a solid combo that I know wont break and can handle over 1000hp makes happy [Big Grin]
That's great, weather you actually plan on utilizing 900-1000hp or just for piece of mind, more power to you.
 
Posted by SmokinLX (Member # 1684) on :
 
I think the 351 is a great option to someone who doesn't already have the hard parts set up for a 302 based engine and never thinks they will need more than 700 horsepower reliably. Most of us that are in block splitting territory already have too much invested in the 302 based platform to justify selling the parts "for half the money We initally invested" needed to do a 351 the rite way. So for those that already have the 302 based engine parts usually stick with them & will spend a little more for the dart block that will handle basically all the power 95% of Us will ever have instead of selling off stuff at used prices and being in the same position as We are in except maybe 150-200 hp more of reliability at roughly the same cost when U figure in the loss of money U take for the used parts that U sell offsetting the cost of the dart block compared to the 351 roller engine. This is assuming forced induction will be used because everybody knows a 302 stroker can't compete with a 351 stroker NA. So most people will make their decision on the parts they already own, horsepower limitation's, cash abailable, and the added security a dart block provides

[ 2015-04-23, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: SmokinLX ]
 
Posted by NEIGHT (Member # 8741) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
hurting your feelings has two guys that did something cool, and how much money did they have in it? how many special tricks did it take? put those same tricks on a 351, same amount of money in the 351, same girdle, same cement. even lee said it, he wouldn't mention it cause he had over ten in it like I mentioned not to mention lol. plus if i said it dave is just gona hate for the sake of a arguement. Its not rocket science to know a 351 is stronger, an can put out more power, has somebody done empressive things with a 302? or smaller based stock blocks, yeah i bet there some impressive lucky numbers. lee will tell you he made 500 and he did, as he preys to god it didn't blow as well. somebody found out how to sqeeze every inch of life out of a 302 on borrowed time an I commend them for it, but no body that's done it will recommend it to anybody else, its like yeah they did it but,,,,,,, lol. how many split in half 302 blocks is there? and how many split in half 351 is there,,,,,,,,,, a big difference, the argument now is just for sake of arguing.
See Duncan that's a whole other argument than saying YOUR 351 will outrun ANY 302 based motor. Now you got a winning argument....
 
Posted by hurting your feelings (Member # 13641) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
hurting your feelings has two guys that did something cool, and how much money did they have in it? how many special tricks did it take? put those same tricks on a 351, same amount of money in the 351, same girdle, same cement. even lee said it, he wouldn't mention it cause he had over ten in it like I mentioned not to mention lol. plus if i said it dave is just gona hate for the sake of a arguement. Its not rocket science to know a 351 is stronger, an can put out more power, has somebody done empressive things with a 302? or smaller based stock blocks, yeah i bet there some impressive lucky numbers. lee will tell you he made 500 and he did, as he preys to god it didn't blow as well. somebody found out how to sqeeze every inch of life out of a 302 on borrowed time an I commend them for it, but no body that's done it will recommend it to anybody else, its like yeah they did it but,,,,,,, lol. how many split in half 302 blocks is there? and how many split in half 351 is there,,,,,,,,,, a big difference, the argument now is just for sake of arguing.
Lee did it with a of the shelf basic 306 half filled block with stock cam an ran a nine second pass.
 
Posted by wilit (Member # 3367) on :
 
408 Cleveland </thread>
 
Posted by TEXAS (Member # 11875) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
hurting your feelings has two guys that did something cool, and how much money did they have in it? how many special tricks did it take? put those same tricks on a 351, same amount of money in the 351, same girdle, same cement. even lee said it, he wouldn't mention it cause he had over ten in it like I mentioned not to mention lol. plus if i said it dave is just gona hate for the sake of a arguement. Its not rocket science to know a 351 is stronger, an can put out more power, has somebody done empressive things with a 302? or smaller based stock blocks, yeah i bet there some impressive lucky numbers. lee will tell you he made 500 and he did, as he preys to god it didn't blow as well. somebody found out how to sqeeze every inch of life out of a 302 on borrowed time an I commend them for it, but no body that's done it will recommend it to anybody else, its like yeah they did it but,,,,,,, lol. how many split in half 302 blocks is there? and how many split in half 351 is there,,,,,,,,,, a big difference, the argument now is just for sake of arguing.
Lee did it with a of the shelf basic 306 half filled block with stock cam an ran a nine second pass.
OMG
 
Posted by MauriSSio (Member # 9943) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hurting your feelings:
quote:
Originally posted by Duncan Motors:
hurting your feelings has two guys that did something cool, and how much money did they have in it? how many special tricks did it take? put those same tricks on a 351, same amount of money in the 351, same girdle, same cement. even lee said it, he wouldn't mention it cause he had over ten in it like I mentioned not to mention lol. plus if i said it dave is just gona hate for the sake of a arguement. Its not rocket science to know a 351 is stronger, an can put out more power, has somebody done empressive things with a 302? or smaller based stock blocks, yeah i bet there some impressive lucky numbers. lee will tell you he made 500 and he did, as he preys to god it didn't blow as well. somebody found out how to sqeeze every inch of life out of a 302 on borrowed time an I commend them for it, but no body that's done it will recommend it to anybody else, its like yeah they did it but,,,,,,, lol. how many split in half 302 blocks is there? and how many split in half 351 is there,,,,,,,,,, a big difference, the argument now is just for sake of arguing.
Lee did it with a of the shelf basic 306 half filled block with stock cam an ran a nine second pass.
with a low enough race weight, anything can pretty much be achieved. Look at what the Honda guys are doing with much less displacement.
 
Posted by warhorse58gt (Member # 7702) on :
 
351 > 302... 450+ passes on the street and track. Makes 430whp on 8.5:1 and blower cam. Runs 10.6x's on 26* of timing and 87 piss gas. On a small hit & 91 gas. it does 9.6's without even trying... As everyone knows. I'm to lazy to try.. [patriot]

[ 2015-04-30, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: warhorse58gt ]
 




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