This is topic Got the Mach tuned @AED... in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 
So as you guys know, I just got my Mach back from having the top end rebuilt @ AED a few weeks back. Since I was unsure of the quality of my old tune from a different shop, I decided it was a good idea to have Shaun @ AED retune the car. I wasn't looking for peak numbers, but good driveablity, & a safe, conservative tune with good power, & that is what I got. Shaun did a great job on the tune & I am pleased with the results...

With the only mods being full longtube back exhaust, C&L 85mm maf kit, 3/8" intake spacer, & the tune, the car laid down 309 rwhp & 323 rwtq ... Pretty good for a mild tune IMO... Thanks again Shaun!!!





IDK why the printout says the air/fuel ratio was 11.8? The a/f was actually in the 12.5-12.8 range I believe....


BTW, with the old tune uploaded, the car made 301 rwhp & 320 rwtq, but it was with more timing, less fuel, & a bunch of other parameters where out of whack. Plus, the car always had a bad tip in ping issue.

[ May 22, 2010, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: EPIK ]
 

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Posted by Stangs R Us (Member # 4495) on :
 
nice now start DD that thing haha jk
 

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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Stangs R Us:
nice now start DD that thing haha jk

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Never!!! LOL. It started to sprinkle today, & I had to rush home before the car got wet LOL...
 

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Posted by O4COBRA (Member # 10015) on :
 
AED? Dustin I can't believe you'd take a risk on a new up start shop like AED. I hope you did your research before hand. I went by this shop once and met a guy named Shaun, probably the same guy you had tune it. I watched him tune a 90 vert with a supercharger, he turned this round thing with 8 wires coming out of it, and the car made another 165hp at the wheels. I don't know if he guessed or what, but it was cool...

JK. Sounds good. I'm glad you got my future car tuned by Shaun. One less thing I have to do when you decide to unload some baggage...

[ May 22, 2010, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: O4COBRA ]
 

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Posted by 8stang8 (Member # 8082) on :
 
Nice dustin! Was that the first time its been on the dyno(to compare #s)?

So when you & 50 deep gna get a GTG setup? Summer right around the corner? (June, July ?)
 

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Posted by iceman302 (Member # 7180) on :
 
Good numbers, Dustin!

BTW, the 11.8 is the lowest A/F ratio from the pull.
 

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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 
04COBRA , the car is ready for you to pick up, just bring me 1,000,000 & its yours LOL...


8Stang8 . The before & after numbers are'nt much different numbers wise. I think the car put down around 9 more hp, & 3 more tq, but the driveability is better, along with the a/f ratio, & it has less timing. & no more tip in ping.... The best my car ever put down was 315 rwhp/327 rwtq, but that was with my old tune with the timing advanced to roughly 24 degrees...

I would rather have lower numbers, with a safer tune...


Iceman302 , thanks for clearing that up...

[ May 22, 2010, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: EPIK ]
 

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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 
Here are a couple of vids of it on the dyno...






 

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Posted by O4COBRA (Member # 10015) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:
04COBRA , the car is ready for you to pick up, just bring me 1,000,000 & its yours LOL...

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Take IOU's...

Just saw you posted vids. My computer acts goofy when I click on Photobucket vids, but I'm gonna click on them anyways. I want to hear this thing...

Sounds really good. I shouldn't have joined this site. I don't think I can wait til' the end of the year to get another mustang. I might have a line on a 99 Cobra in the near future...

[ May 22, 2010, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: O4COBRA ]
 

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Posted by 93ReefBlue5.0 (Member # 5780) on :
 
how many times are u gonna knock the "other shop" in one post? decent numbers i guess.
 

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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 93ReefBlue5.0:
how many times are u gonna knock the "other shop" in one post? decent numbers i guess.

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93ReefBlue5.0:
how many times are u gonna knock the "other shop" in one post? decent numbers i guess.

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HUH?

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That's what I said. But I'm new so I thought maybe I missed something. I think you touched a nerve Dustin...

[ May 22, 2010, 09:39 PM: Message edited by: O4COBRA ]
 

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Posted by FireVert03 (Member # 9807) on :
 
Good numbers.....ill be heading to AED soon just waiting for some new things to slap on....I'm loving that mach 1...looks clean so far the best 1 I seen...
 

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Posted by 50 Deep (Member # 6216) on :
 
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race
 

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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by O4COBRA:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93ReefBlue5.0:
how many times are u gonna knock the "other shop" in one post? decent numbers i guess.

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HUH?

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That's what I said. But I'm new so I thought maybe I missed something. I think you touched a nerve Dustin...

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quote:

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Originally posted by 50Reasons:
Can you feel the difference from the old tune

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quote:

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Originally posted by FireVert03:
Good numbers.....ill be heading to AED soon just waiting for some new things to slap on....I'm loving that mach 1...looks clean so far the best 1 I seen...

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quote:

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Originally posted by 50 Deep:
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by 50 Deep:
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race

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I'm ready for you T, but we both know your fox is quicker. But since you got Jarred from Subway shifting your gears, I might just stand a chance LOL..

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 50 Deep:
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race

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quote:

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Originally posted by 8stang8:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by 50 Deep:
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race

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I'm ready for you T, but we both know your fox is quicker. But since you got Jarred from Subway shifting your gears, I might just stand a chance LOL..

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"Jared" LOL is that what yall calling him?

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LOL... Naw, T just likes to make 5 dollar footlongs between shifts LOL. I can't talk though, I aint the best driver in the world either.
 

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Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
I'm glad you're happy Dustin. That's all we really care about at AED....happy customers.

Previous tune wasn't that bad, but it had the potential to do engine damage and needed some improvements in a few areas IMO.

1. Maff curve at idle/part-throttle was 15% lean. However, once the O2's warm up they correct the lean condition. Not a huge deal, but not what I'd like to see. We shoot for 5% variance or less. The O2's can correct 25% short term. However, with longtubes the O2's take longer to warm up and can cause drivability issues....unless you dial in the O2's in the tune. (delay and heater circuit duty cycle)

2. Too much timing under 3000RPM which caused the tip-in detonation. Timing curve was more of a straight line at 20-21 degrees from 2K to 6500RPM. Tip-in timing control was turned off in the tune as well.

3. Knock sensors were turned off due to them picking up the exhaust tone.

4. A/F was slightly lean in one or 2 points at 13.2-13.3:1. Not a huge deal, but I like to see 12.5-12.8 N/A. Coupled with no knock sensors, too much timing under 3K, and tip-in timing control turned off, the tune was a little too dangerous IMO. And given the difference of 5HP from 'dangerous' to 'safe', I didn't see the point of having a boarderline tune.

In the end I ended up giving Dustin 3 tunes.

1 for 91 octane with the knock sensors ON and the rate of advance/retard turned up 3-4x stock. (The computer can now add/remove timing at 2 degrees per second, vs the stock rate of 1 degree per 2 seconds)

1 for 91 with knock sensors turned OFF and a 'typical' N/A Mach1 timing curve (3ish degrees more than with the knock sensors turned on) This netted ~5hp more than the first tune above 5K RPM. (similar to the original tune, but a richer A/F)

1 'RACE' tune with knock sensors OFF for use with more octane (to be safe) and a significant increase in timing. (ideal timing curve)

So, basically he's got 1 concervative safe tune that makes good power, 1 more aggressive tune like he previously had, and 1 'Race' tune for Max power output.....with options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip.

3 complete custom tunes geared towards Epik's particular setup and goals/requirements.
 

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Posted by FireVert03 (Member # 9807) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by 50 Deep:
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race

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I'm ready for you T, but we both know your fox is quicker. But since you got Jarred from Subway shifting your gears, I might just stand a chance LOL..

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quote:

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Originally posted by 306mustang:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by 50 Deep:
Oh Dustin...

Now that the car is tuned you owe my fox a race

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I'm ready for you T, but we both know your fox is quicker. But since you got Jarred from Subway shifting your gears, I might just stand a chance LOL.. [/QUOTcE]
Can I join to?but ill race the loser lol

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:
Shaun, thanks for explaining all that, & thanks again for the tune. I am very happy with the way the car runs now, & I can't wait to test out the "race" tune at the track soon...


FireVert03, I doubt I will be in SJ anytime soon, but I could snap some pics of your car if you ever come out to Sac...

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quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:


So, basically he's got 1 concervative safe tune that makes good power, 1 more aggressive tune like he previously had, and 1 'Race' tune for Max power output.....

with options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip.

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The dyno graph reflects the first "safe" tune or one of the two others? What did the others lay down?

I'm also wondering what the "options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip" consist of?

Cheers
 

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Posted by EPIK (Member # 7481) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Dustin, nice numbers! I'm wondering why pulleys were not on the mod list?

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:


So, basically he's got 1 concervative safe tune that makes good power, 1 more aggressive tune like he previously had, and 1 'Race' tune for Max power output.....

with options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip.

---

The dyno graph reflects the first "safe" tune or one of the two others? What did the others lay down?

I'm also wondering what the "options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip" consist of?

Cheers

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Dustin, nice numbers! I'm wondering why pulleys were not on the mod list?

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:


So, basically he's got 1 concervative safe tune that makes good power, 1 more aggressive tune like he previously had, and 1 'Race' tune for Max power output.....

with options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip.

---

The dyno graph reflects the first "safe" tune or one of the two others? What did the others lay down?

I'm also wondering what the "options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip" consist of?

Cheers

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Pulleys aren't on the mod list because they are known to make the oil pump take a dump on 32V motors.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Luke87GT:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Dustin, nice numbers! I'm wondering why pulleys were not on the mod list?

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:


So, basically he's got 1 concervative safe tune that makes good power, 1 more aggressive tune like he previously had, and 1 'Race' tune for Max power output.....

with options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip.

---

The dyno graph reflects the first "safe" tune or one of the two others? What did the others lay down?

I'm also wondering what the "options for each tune for extracting every last bit of ET/MPH at the Drag strip" consist of?

Cheers

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Pulleys aren't on the mod list because they are known to make the oil pump take a dump on 32V motors.

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Any evidence of this? Links? Literature?

There are thousands of guys running around with pulleys in 32V motors and I have never heard pulleys affecting oil pumps. Why would it?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sean Hyland @ SeanHyland Motorsports:
Here is an Experts opinion: Sean Hyland Mustang High-Performance Builders Guide 1994-2004 Cobra/Mach1 Reference info: .....The factory crankshaft damper, water pump pulley, and alternator pulley can be exchanged for underdrive units that reduce parasitic losses and reduce the speed of the accessories. This is especially helpful for the water pump, which can cavitate at higher RPM, reducing cooling efficiency. .... Many of the aftermarket underdrive pulley kits on the market reduce the effectiveness of the damper, resulting in increased harmonics and contributing to oil-pump-gear failures. Our newest design retains 92 percent of the original mass, reducing drag, but still providing adequate damping characteristics. The factory had a couple of different crankshaft bolts on the 4-valve over the years, and more than one torque specification. Since inadequate clamping load creates oil pump and crank gear problems, it's important to only use the black crank gear bolt (not the inferior silver one), replace the crank-gear-bolt every time it is removed, and torque it to 125 ft-lbs......

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

FireVert03, I doubt I will be in SJ anytime soon, but I could snap some pics of your car if you ever come out to Sac...

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quote:

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Originally posted by 04cobra408:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

FireVert03, I doubt I will be in SJ anytime soon, but I could snap some pics of your car if you ever come out to Sac...

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Hater! lol Next time I roll out there me and willie and down for and epik car shoot too!

And congrats on the car . Im sure with AED's touch the car runs far better than it did before! I cant wait to get my car back up there !

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quote:

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Originally posted by 04cobra408:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

FireVert03, I doubt I will be in SJ anytime soon, but I could snap some pics of your car if you ever come out to Sac...

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Hater! lol Next time I roll out there me and willie and down for and epik car shoot too!

And congrats on the car . Im sure with AED's touch the car runs far better than it did before! I cant wait to get my car back up there !

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quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
1 for 91 with knock sensors turned OFF and a 'typical' N/A Mach1 timing curve (3ish degrees more than with the knock sensors turned on) This netted ~5hp more than the first tune above 5K RPM. (similar to the original tune, but a richer A/F)

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quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

quote:

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Originally posted by 04cobra408:

quote:

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Originally posted by EPIK:

FireVert03, I doubt I will be in SJ anytime soon, but I could snap some pics of your car if you ever come out to Sac...

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Hater! lol Next time I roll out there me and willie and down for and epik car shoot too!

And congrats on the car . Im sure with AED's touch the car runs far better than it did before! I cant wait to get my car back up there !

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Anytime bro... LMK when your up here again & we can set that up 4 sho...

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quote:

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Originally posted by FireVert03:

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Ill roll with you guys... [/qb][/QUOTE]coo right on

[ May 27, 2010, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: 04cobra408 ]
 

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Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
Thank you for the reply. Just a few follow-up questions/thoughts:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Over the past 7 years I've been working on these motors every oil pump failure I've seen has had one thing in common..... Underdrive crank pulley.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
As for the options.... Along with Gear/tire calibration and rev/speed limiter adjustment, Epik has WOT A/F and timing adjustments.
Tuning for peak power on the dyno doesn't neccessarily mean it's tuned for peak power at the track.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mach916:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
1 for 91 with knock sensors turned OFF and a 'typical' N/A Mach1 timing curve (3ish degrees more than with the knock sensors turned on) This netted ~5hp more than the first tune above 5K RPM. (similar to the original tune, but a richer A/F)

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shaun can you please explain more in depth how you set up the timing with knock sensors off??is the timing 24deg from 0-6500??

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quote:

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Originally posted by Luke87GT:
Thank you for the reply. Just a few follow-up questions/thoughts:

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
Over the past 7 years I've been working on these motors every oil pump failure I've seen has had one thing in common..... Underdrive crank pulley.

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I'm curious how many of these oil pump failures you yourself have seen and if there was any specific models that showed this problem to be more prevalent? I did notice that the mass of the balancer differs between 2V, 4V Cobra, and 4V Mach1 (Mach1 having the heaviest stock balancer).

Also, I'm curious if there is a correlation in your customers between the following:
a.) People who spend a lot of time at high RPM
b.) People who have underdrive crank pulleys
c.) People who experience oil pump failure

I don't expect an answer to that question obviously, but just something to thing about.

Regarding the tune:
Is Epik's car using a piggyback chip or was the tune downloaded via a handheld tuner (Does AED have a tuning preference? I ask because I have an Xcal2 and would potentially be interested in having AED tune my NA Cobra this summer).

quote:

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Originally posted by 93PONY:
As for the options.... Along with Gear/tire calibration and rev/speed limiter adjustment, Epik has WOT A/F and timing adjustments.
Tuning for peak power on the dyno doesn't neccessarily mean it's tuned for peak power at the track.

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Finally, what is the trigger mechanism to adjust the timing and WOT A/F after the tune? I guess I am not following how Dustin would be tweaking these parameters himself? Via what?

Oh, and almost forgot... How does he switch between the 3 different tunes? Using a handheld this is obvious, but with a piggyback chip, I'm not familiar?

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