This is topic Recently got our 03 Cobra Vert on the Dyno in forum General Talk at Northern California Ford Owners  .


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Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 
Some of you also saw this car at the car show. It is a Sonic Blue 03 Cobra Vert that we have recently done some extensive modifications to. We are pretty happy with the results of our work and are sitting right with the highest RWHP positive displacement supercharged Cobras in the nation, (boost only). The car recently put down 741 RWHP and an insane 701 RWTQ!

The combo consists of an AED built 5.0L stroker setup in an aluminum block. Ported heads and custom camshafts. Ported and polished lower intake manifold. A KB 2.8H with extensive work done to the inlet side of the blower in an effort to mimic the superior design of the Whipple and improve the RWTQ numbers, (which as you can see payed off huge). The car of course has all the supporting mods, with upgrades to the ignition, fuel system and some pretty large exhaust. Not to mention some cosmetic mods we added.

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In this pic you can see the weld where we actually cut the inlet to the KB open for porting and enlarging.
 -
 -

We didn't get a vid of it making 741, but here is a earlier vid of it making 715 RWHP.
[IMG]  - [/IMG]

Before this recent round of modifications we saw a best 1/4 mile time of 10.60 @ 132 in this pig of a vert. We are looking to take it to the track for some TNT and sqeeze out a single digit pass in the future. [burnout] [burnout] [burnout]

[ October 04, 2007, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Yellow94GT ]
 
Posted by N8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
all the technical jargon flew over my head, but I saw 700+ RWHP [Big Grin] [Eek!]

And not to mention the car is utterly stunning to look at. Great job. If I ever get the guts enough to have something built, you guys are on my list to contact.
 
Posted by Blind (Member # 3052) on :
 
damn, that car is looking/running great!
 
Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :
 
Jim's car is looking good Drew [Cool]

Nice #'s [Eek!] [worship]

When will you guys be back to the track.

Looks like we are going for the same goal for this year.

Have you guys weighed the pig yet?
 
Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
Jim's car is looking good Drew [Cool]

Nice #'s [Eek!] [worship]

When will you guys be back to the track.

Looks like we are going for the same goal for this year.

Have you guys weighed the pig yet?

Haven't weighed it yet, but when it made the 10.60 pass it still had the spare tire in the trunk and the swaybar hooked up out front...lol
 
Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Yellow94GT:
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
Jim's car is looking good Drew [Cool]

Nice #'s [Eek!] [worship]

When will you guys be back to the track.

Looks like we are going for the same goal for this year.

Have you guys weighed the pig yet?

Haven't weighed it yet, but when it made the 10.60 pass it still had the spare tire in the trunk and the swaybar hooked up out front...lol
Well then 9.90's are no problem [Wink] [Razz]
 
Posted by SF Coupe (Member # 1810) on :
 
Damn nice work guys [Eek!]
 
Posted by Pittsburg Mustang Owner (Member # 6100) on :
 
Sure it's fast, but does it SWANG?!

Great job and even better numbers. When i get some loot imma send my car over to you guys!
 
Posted by season'd 88 (Member # 169) on :
 
Top down hair blowing in the wind HAHAHA [Big Grin]
The cleanliness and attention to every little detail is just iceing on the cake. GREAT WORK!!
 
Posted by 92stangLX (Member # 3252) on :
 
That's fucking awesome. Nice valve covers BTW [Smile]
 
Posted by solbrothers (Member # 7524) on :
 
 -

[Razz] jk. nice #'s
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by solbrothers:
 -

[Razz] jk. nice #'s

 -
 
Posted by J24I (Member # 2598) on :
 
Nice numbers and clean vert [Eek!]

[ October 04, 2007, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: J24I ]
 
Posted by 92stangLX (Member # 3252) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:
quote:
Originally posted by solbrothers:
 -

[Razz] jk. nice #'s

 -
625lb/ft torque at 3k [Eek!] That is some seriously crazy shit.
 
Posted by Yellow94GT (Member # 431) on :
 
That's not the highest output graph, but you get the point. [Smile]
 
Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
AFR graph of the highest output pull?

Very nice car!
 
Posted by aslowdodge (Member # 854) on :
 
awesome numbers and a looker too!
 
Posted by mikeP (Member # 4489) on :
 
bad azz snake.....
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
AFR graph of the highest output pull?

Very nice car!

highest output graph had open headers with the 02s sitting to the side, making the AFR wildly inaccurate. But the rest of the tunes were pretty close to straightedge perfect!
 
Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :
 
What type of fuel you guys runnin?
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
What type of fuel you guys runnin?

Sunoco Maximal which is 116 octane
here's the info:
http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consumer/RaceFuels/TraditionalFuels/Maximal.htm
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
With a few more 'bugs' worked out we should be able to rev the motor higher & make more power. Previous (2 weeks earlier) dyno graph showed 610RWTQ & 715RWHP. That's over 100 more HP than TQ & it reved to 7K.
The KB is heating up a LOT after we added 2psi more boost. Datalog shows 126-136 degree air temps from 2K to 6500RPM, from 6500 to 7000 intake air temps jump from 136 to 170!
Crazy thing is it gained 80RWTQ from 2psi more boost & 1 degree of added timing. The KB became more efficient with more boost, but had problems up top.

I think the intercooler may be maxed.....possibly the KB is also having a hard time feeding the motor at high RPM.....don't know yet.... We've got some research to do.
 
Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
What type of fuel you guys runnin?

Sunoco Maximal which is 116 octane
here's the info:
http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consumer/RaceFuels/TraditionalFuels/Maximal.htm

Right on.

We've been experimenting w/ ERC fuels as they are local to us San Leandro.

We use their 118 that is designed for turbo applications.

I'd like to run VP fuels (C16 or Import)but just trying to see what the car like best [Smile]
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
What type of fuel you guys runnin?

Sunoco Maximal which is 116 octane
here's the info:
http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consumer/RaceFuels/TraditionalFuels/Maximal.htm

Right on.

We've been experimenting w/ ERC fuels as they are local to us San Leandro.

We use their 118 that is designed for turbo applications.

I'd like to run VP fuels (C16 or Import)but just trying to see what the car like best [Smile]

With such little timing on these motors (23-24 total) we were getting tons of deposits on the valves/sparkplugs from ERC & C16. One motor needed a valvejob because the deposits had actually pitted the valves/valve seats.
Most likely this was due to not burning off the entire mixture before the exhaust valve opened. I called Sunoco & talked with the head race fuel guy. Sunoco Maximal (116octane) is the fastest burning fuel they have. Since using it, we've had zero issues with deposits or detonation. This motor runs 25psi, 24 degrees of timing & the plugs come out clean. C16 burns slower & would require more ignition lead in order to completely burn off the mixture. Running 30+ degrees of timing on one of these motors would not make anymore power...Although it probably wouldn't detonate with the C16, I've found no need to spend an extra $1 per gallon & run more timing on C16 vs using Sunoco Maximal.

Maximal is the only leaded race fuel I recomend for limited timing motors like these (25 or so total).....N/A, Turbo, Nitrous, or Supercharged....it works great. C16 seems to work great for those running 32+ degrees of timing.
 
Posted by Termin8Him (Member # 7895) on :
 
daaaaaaaaammmmmnnnn [worship]
 
Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:
quote:
Originally posted by TRIXSNK:
What type of fuel you guys runnin?

Sunoco Maximal which is 116 octane
here's the info:
http://www.sunocoinc.com/Site/Consumer/RaceFuels/TraditionalFuels/Maximal.htm

Right on.

We've been experimenting w/ ERC fuels as they are local to us San Leandro.

We use their 118 that is designed for turbo applications.

I'd like to run VP fuels (C16 or Import)but just trying to see what the car like best [Smile]

With such little timing on these motors (23-24 total) we were getting tons of deposits on the valves/sparkplugs from ERC & C16. One motor needed a valvejob because the deposits had actually pitted the valves/valve seats.
Most likely this was due to not burning off the entire mixture before the exhaust valve opened. I called Sunoco & talked with the head race fuel guy. Sunoco Maximal (116octane) is the fastest burning fuel they have. Since using it, we've had zero issues with deposits or detonation. This motor runs 25psi, 24 degrees of timing & the plugs come out clean. C16 burns slower & would require more ignition lead in order to completely burn off the mixture. Running 30+ degrees of timing on one of these motors would not make anymore power...Although it probably wouldn't detonate with the C16, I've found no need to spend an extra $1 per gallon & run more timing on C16 vs using Sunoco Maximal.

Maximal is the only leaded race fuel I recomend for limited timing motors like these (25 or so total).....N/A, Turbo, Nitrous, or Supercharged....it works great. C16 seems to work great for those running 32+ degrees of timing.

Shawn(sp?)

Thanks for the input that actually helps out quite a bit in our search for the right fuel for this car.

Do you happen to know if they carry that Sunoco Maximal 116 at Infineon?

We had an Evo that was tuned using Sunoco 114 leaded w/ 30psi an it didn't like that stuff very much [Frown] Had some ingnition break up w/ his stock ign. set-up. We didn't tear into the motor or use a scope to look at the pistons and valves but now that you mentioned it i did notice some deposits on the valves when i tore down the motor in my Evo after it spun a bearing when Sean had it.

I believe he was running C16 the entire time he had the car.

Have you guys heard anything about VP Q16 not the C16......they say it has a faster burn rate and produces 3-5% more power [Confused]

By the way what does that Maximal cost? I'm guessing around $12-15

[ October 16, 2007, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: TRIXSNK ]
 
Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
hmmm heated blower,deposits on valves it sure sounds like a water meth kit might be a sweet deal.(if you can run it through the blower).You can set it up to just come in under high boost conditions might help keep deposits off the valves plus lower blower temps a bunch. . Nice numbers keep up the good work. I just checked you can run it through the blower. Snow has a MAF kit to turn it on and you could easily tune it with a 50/50 mix. maybe hit 800 rwhp [Eek!]

[ October 17, 2007, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
I'm not a water/meth fan...... Untill I see professional race cars running pump 91 & water/meth injection, I'm not even gonna try it in any of our high-hp motors. I'm all Race-gas for 'race' motors.

I don't know if Infineon carries Sunoco Maximal or not. I was quoted ~$8.50 a gallon in 54gallon barrel form a few months back (might be higher now). It's on average $1 per gallon cheaper than VP C16.

The Norcal race gas distributor lives up near us....he can get you anything you want & give you contact info for the head techs of the race gas departments for just about any manufacture of fuel.
PM me & I'll give you his contact info.
 
Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
lol I didn't say run it with 91 octane I was just suggesting it for cooling blower and cleaning valves. no problem just throwing it out there to you. You are probably correct it is much better to follow other peoples lead on what they do.

[ October 17, 2007, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: 2stangs69-91 ]
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 2stangs69-91:
lol I didn't say run it with 91 octane I was just suggesting it for cooling blower and cleaning valves. no problem just throwing it out there to you. You are probably correct it is much better to follow other peoples lead on what they do.

That's true, water cleans the SHIT out of a motor! Ever pull down a motor with a blown HG where water was getting into the chamber? Sparkling clean!
The deposits we saw on one of our motors was from the fuel the customer was running. ERC & C16. That exact same motor (freshened up) with 100 unleaded has zero deposits now. Same with the ones we run on Maximal....no more deposits. Plugs look like they would with any stock mustang.
 
Posted by TRIXSNK (Member # 2844) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
I'm not a water/meth fan...... Untill I see professional race cars running pump 91 & water/meth injection, I'm not even gonna try it in any of our high-hp motors. I'm all Race-gas for 'race' motors.

I don't know if Infineon carries Sunoco Maximal or not. I was quoted ~$8.50 a gallon in 54gallon barrel form a few months back (might be higher now). It's on average $1 per gallon cheaper than VP C16.

The Norcal race gas distributor lives up near us....he can get you anything you want & give you contact info for the head techs of the race gas departments for just about any manufacture of fuel.
PM me & I'll give you his contact info.

I'm with you on that!

A bunch of the turbo import guys like to run meth/water and pump gas.....i'm sure for the sake of saving some $$$ but to me it's not worth the risk.

It's either pump w/ a safe tune and not beating the hell out of it or straight race gas so i can push the car.

There are some guys running both race gas ie. c16 and meth.....but i haven't done enough research on that yet [Confused]

I did speak with the tech guy from VP fuels yesterday asking about their new "Q16".

Have you heard much about this?

I'll pm you right now if you don't mind passing along your race gas dist. guy's number.

Thanks
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
Haven't even heard of the Q16 till you posted it.
What's the deal?
 
Posted by FoX GT (Member # 4587) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Haven't even heard of the Q16 till you posted it.
What's the deal?

Come on Shaun, did the Sunoco dealer not tell you about this? Q16 is touted as "the best drag racing gas as long as there are no fuel restrictions"
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/article.html?articleURL=2454319.75914352

Here's the spec sheet on it:
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/spec/Tech%20Bulletin--Q16.doc


NEW! Q16
Q16 will work well in any drag racing or circle track application -- naturally aspirated, nitrous or blowers. Q16 is highly oxygenated, requiring a 4-6% increase in fuel flow, which will make 3-5% more power than competitive 116 octane fuels. Q16's oxygenation will significantly expand the range of air/fuel ratio acceptability, so performance will be more consistent and won't vary as dramatically with altitude or density changes. For bracket racers, variations in ET from run to run will be substantially reduced. This added fuel flow also effectively increases its octane by 6-8 numbers above its standard ASTM octane rating.

• Color: Yellow
• Oxygenated: Yes
• Motor Octane: 116
• Research Octane: 120+
• Specific Gravity: .716 at 60° F

Specification Sheet: Q16

Leaded: Yes
Oxygenated: Yes
Specific Gravity: .716 @ 60°F
Color: Yellow
Motor Octane: 116
Research Octane: 120+
Oxidation Stability (min.) 1440+
Distillation:
10% evap @ 141.0°F
50% evap @ 174.0°F
90% evap @ 214.5°F
E.P. @ 260.2°F
RVP: 6.76
Availability: Sealed Drums

[ October 18, 2007, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: FoX GT ]
 
Posted by 2stangs69-91 (Member # 1951) on :
 
not knowing about water/meth injection is no reason to knock it. There is a reason so many people run it. That being said on my 69 mustang I do not plan on running it. I have a big air to water intercooler that I am using instead.
 
Posted by NavidR (Member # 3164) on :
 
wow jims car is insane....CONGRATS TO AED
 
Posted by 93PONY (Member # 60) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by FoX GT:
quote:
Originally posted by 93PONY:
Haven't even heard of the Q16 till you posted it.
What's the deal?

Come on Shaun, did the Sunoco dealer not tell you about this? Q16 is touted as "the best drag racing gas as long as there are no fuel restrictions"
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/article.html?articleURL=2454319.75914352

Here's the spec sheet on it:
http://www.vpracingfuels.com/spec/Tech%20Bulletin--Q16.doc


NEW! Q16
Q16 will work well in any drag racing or circle track application -- naturally aspirated, nitrous or blowers. Q16 is highly oxygenated, requiring a 4-6% increase in fuel flow, which will make 3-5% more power than competitive 116 octane fuels. Q16's oxygenation will significantly expand the range of air/fuel ratio acceptability, so performance will be more consistent and won't vary as dramatically with altitude or density changes. For bracket racers, variations in ET from run to run will be substantially reduced. This added fuel flow also effectively increases its octane by 6-8 numbers above its standard ASTM octane rating.

• Color: Yellow
• Oxygenated: Yes
• Motor Octane: 116
• Research Octane: 120+
• Specific Gravity: .716 at 60° F

Specification Sheet: Q16

Leaded: Yes
Oxygenated: Yes
Specific Gravity: .716 @ 60°F
Color: Yellow
Motor Octane: 116
Research Octane: 120+
Oxidation Stability (min.) 1440+
Distillation:
10% evap @ 141.0°F
50% evap @ 174.0°F
90% evap @ 214.5°F
E.P. @ 260.2°F
RVP: 6.76
Availability: Sealed Drums

I'm no fuel expert. Most of those specs are just #'s to me.....
All I know is the Sunoco Maximal is effective with 8.7:1 compression with 25psi boost, 24 degrees of timing & 170 degree air temps without leaving deposits on the plugs/valves/valveseats..... Why change what works? [Wink]
 




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