quote:

---

I actually want to thank you for IP banning me.. it has saved me alot of time dealing with some of the garbage on Cafords. I also have been alerted by some of our good customers that we are being slammed and slandered unmercilessly on your site by a few users who have NEVER done business with us or met me. Many of these posts are without merit and slanderous. While I am grateful you still allow my employees to post and reply to people I would caution you CAfords is treading on waters you don't really want to get into.

I am not sure if you are aware of a new Federal law which "Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity" This law was passed last year under the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act." Sec. 113. You can read more abot it right here. It carries a maximum sentence of 2 years in prison
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.03402:

I do believe people have the right to voice their opinions. But not when they do it recklessly like some of your users have. When your users are posting false statements about people or companies then they have gone too far. If you continue to allow your users to slander me and harm my business I will have no choice but to take matters into my own hands. Please call me at XXX/XXX-XXX so we can discuss this matter OR you may reply by email. I expect action or a reply within 24 hours to this matter.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
Surplus Computers
SurplusComputers.com
Apex Motorsports

---

(we censored his phone number)


Since CaliforniaFords.com is a service to the community, up kept by donated time and resources of our members, what do you think we should do? Myself and the moderators I’ve spoken to clearly do not want to go to jail. We also don’t want to pay any legal fees and go to court for allowing our members to post both positive and negative reviews about a local shop. Our hands are tied.


We want to warn our members that if you see CaliforniaFords.com shut down in the near future, it will be due to the apparent imminent legal action the individual quoted above is bringing against the people that keep CaliforniaFords.com running.


Please keep your replies civil. I hold the right to lock this post or remove profane replies. We are only looking inform our members of the situation and get their advice on how to handle it.
 

---

Posted by streakmatt (Member # 6257) on :
 
Wow, I've stayed out of all the Apex BS on here but this shit keeps getting deeper.
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 
but for him to censor peoples opinions would be trying to take away our freedom of speech.
this is hilarious. what a bitch move. so is he going to file a lawsuit against cafords or the individuals that are "recklessly" badmouthing his bussiness.?
 

---

Posted by Red00GT (Member # 5653) on :
 
just one word for me:

WOW!
 

---

Posted by LuvMy04GT (Member # 4791) on :
 
Ouch. This may be a hard one to fix. I guess people nowadays take things said about them to heart. I had 6 months probation and 40 hours community service just for a prank call! I hope all goes well.
 

---

Posted by Venomized93 (Member # 55) on :
 
That's BULLSHIT. Straight up. Don't let him try to scare you. I understand your situation. So in the end it's your decision. But honestly. I've seen SVTPERFORMANCE discussions about companies and thats on a national level. I would speak to some moderators of other boards to see how to handle this siuation. Go to MODULARFORDS.COM and SVTPERFORMANCE.COM, I've seen alot shit talking on those boards and nothing has come about those. It's our right to talk. I personally have not dealt with APEX since the BILL KAISER days. But if someone had a bad experience. They HAVE the RIGHT to voice their opinion.
 

---

Posted by SmokinLX (Member # 1684) on :
 
I believe that You are taking a chance when You try to sollicite buisness on a web site. He took a chance by doing free advertizement on the site and it backfired on Him. I have never been involved in bashing on His buisness and am not trying to start now. JMHO.
 

---

Posted by 5LiterRiceEater (Member # 6322) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:
but for him to censor peoples opinions would be trying to take away our freedom of speech.
this is hilarious. what a bitch move. so is he going to file a lawsuit against cafords or the individuals that are "recklessly" badmouthing his bussiness.?

---

It states that nothing is going to be done as of now, But if the bad mouthing continues then there will be legal action taken

[ April 04, 2006, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: 5LiterRiceEater ]
 

---

Posted by Black 02 SS (Member # 5939) on :
 
WOW! Someone apparently does not take criticism well AT ALL! If he's such a business man then he should know all the factors involved in running one. How does he expect everyone to commonly like the manners in which he conducts business? He needs to grow the EFF up and stop wasting time meandering on all this online bull shit. So what, people have bad opinions and just let others now to forewarn them so they don't go through the same problems they experienced. It would then be up to others to derive their OWN decisions. Now to take it out on the CaFords moderators, although their actions can be questionable at times, is plain utter BULLSHIT! now he really just made himself look...you put your own various words in there.
 

---

Posted by PWR HNGRY 302 (Member # 6000) on :
 
Whoa, thats just... wow thats crazy
 

---

Posted by 5LiterRiceEater (Member # 6322) on :
 


[ April 04, 2006, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: 5LiterRiceEater ]
 

---

Posted by sic5pointSLOW (Member # 5889) on :
 
why not talk shit about them without using their name. call them GAYPEX or something. please voice your opinions by all means, just dont attack a buisness by name.
 

---

Posted by SPEC -Fabrication (Member # 4980) on :
 
Not only this buisness has had problems here, These last few months have really gotten outta hand on the abuse of threads ,Moderators should have been locking and deleting these post but would let them go on for Pages
 

---

Posted by 91 5.0 5speed (Member # 1867) on :
 
If I understand this correctly It is o.k. to talk about apex if you have a bad experience with them as long as you give your true identity? every law has loopholes but I think you should ban any and everyone having to do with that shop and be done with them. They can't totally censor someone from giving their opinion, That is a violation of the first amendment.
 

---

Posted by bottled02GT?? (Member # 1772) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9COBRA8:

The following email was sent to us:

quote:

---

This law was passed last year under the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act." Sec. 113. You can read more abot it right here. It carries a maximum sentence of 2 years in prison
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.03402:

---

(we censored his phone number)
Please keep your replies civil.

---

(Sec. 113) Amends the Communications Act of 1934 to apply the prohibitions against certain communications in interstate or foreign commerce to communications transmitted by the Internet (i.e., cyberstalking).

OK now ive been on this site for About 3 1/2 years and ive never seen an issue gone this far. During this whole issue ive stayed open minded and drawn no conclusion. EVEN with the statements said, venting etc i still intend on Seeing what kind of work they do and drawing my own conclusion.

For those that have had a bad exp. and it wasnt resolved i believe they have the "RIGHT" to voice their opinion based on personal exp. THats their right to TO SAY what they want. FIRST AMEND. THose who havent personally had an issue need to shut up. I play both sides here.

That said, they wouldnt be bashed over the net if they Would TAKE better care of their customers. Threatening a law suit due to Fouls created on his/his staffs behalf is just .

Like i said before ILL draw my own conclusion AFTER im serviced by there staff. Until then ill hold an open opinion about their work, BUT the threat of the law suit is already possibly making me want to go else where if thats the way He treats others over a protected freedom. I think he's doing more harm threating a law suit. Just my .02 Joe
 

---

Posted by NorCalRydaz (Member # 3233) on :
 
I think that we should not talk about APEX motorsports at all if they just wanna play games. nothing good or bad said about them. that's what I would do.... just my 2 cets
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 
Here is some info that I found..... Altough, its titled "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"


On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, before talking about anything, lets post our names...
 

---

Posted by SydeWayzSix (Member # 2222) on :
 
I too never got involved nor really knew what was going on with Apex....but I guess its getting really bad. Whatever decision CaFords moderators decide, I'm all for it Just don't take this website waway from us
 

---

Posted by Cobra5.0Jeep (Member # 1482) on :
 
From what i read about that law it doesn't sound like he has a case, that law is more for people who stalk or spam other people and keep their identity a secret. I am sure this site records IP addresses and you can find phone numbers and names of almost all the members on here.
Also those posts were peoples opinions, they weren't sending them to APEX to annoy them, they were telling other people not to go there.
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 


[ April 04, 2006, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: two-gun kid ]
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
From what i read about that law it doesn't sound like he has a case, that law is more for people who stalk or spam other people and keep their identity a secret. I am sure this site records IP addresses and you can find phone numbers and names of almost all the members on here.
Also those posts were peoples opinions, they weren't sending them to APEX to annoy them, they were telling other people not to go there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
From what i read about that law it doesn't sound like he has a case, that law is more for people who stalk or spam other people and keep their identity a secret. I am sure this site records IP addresses and you can find phone numbers and names of almost all the members on here.
Also those posts were peoples opinions, they weren't sending them to APEX to annoy them, they were telling other people not to go there.

---

Exactly... its a law to help prevent cyber-stalking of WOMEN....

Now, I'm no rocket science... but, if he's worried about sales being hurt, an email like that will only do more harm, and nothing good for his business. In a nutshell, he has just threatened our Mods, and I'm sure everyone of us here will help out in anyway.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

---

an email like that will only do more harm, and nothing good for his business. In a nutshell, he has just threatened our Mods, and I'm sure everyone of us here will help out in anyway.

---

Thank U exactly what i was saying
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
From what i read about that law it doesn't sound like he has a case, that law is more for people who stalk or spam other people and keep their identity a secret. I am sure this site records IP addresses and you can find phone numbers and names of almost all the members on here.
Also those posts were peoples opinions, they weren't sending them to APEX to annoy them, they were telling other people not to go there.

---

Exactly... its a law to help prevent cyber-stalking of WOMEN....

Now, I'm no rocket science... but, if he's worried about sales being hurt, an email like that will only do more harm, and nothing good for his business. In a nutshell, he has just threatened our Mods, and I'm sure everyone of us here will help out in anyway.

---

so is he trying to sue cafords or the members that "recklessly" bad mouthed "GAYPEX"
but chris is still cool.

---

From what I read, he is trying to muscle the Mods/owner into closing all bad/negative threads that have anything to do with Apex... by using a House Resolution originally intended to help stop the cyber stalking of women.
 

---

Posted by streakmatt (Member # 6257) on :
 
So what does he think this is going to do for his business?? I guess he thinks that even if its bad publicity, its still publicity.
 

---

Posted by 02GeeTee (Member # 5905) on :
 
Too bad there is nothing we (members) can do about it. I'd like to see this Personally, I wouldn't slander them. And I know people have their own opinion. But, isn't he taking this too far?

Why can't we all just get along?
 

---

Posted by Venomized93 (Member # 55) on :
 
I was just reading a little about the SLANDER and LIBEL laws. The website (which is CAFORDS) would be sent a CEASE and DESIST letter (which he posted already). Which is the first thing a business owner does. In the end. Its the originator that actually made the comment that can get sued. Basically he would have to get a court order for his ISP (to get the weblogs) and try to trace the member back to try to sue them.
 

---

Posted by Jmir018 (Member # 1414) on :
 
i don't think it's about getting along at all or keeping quiet....
It's about this guy trying to get what he wants at all costs. very, very low.
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:
Here is some info that I found..... Altough, its titled "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"


On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, before talking about anything, lets post our names...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:
Here is some info that I found..... Altough, its titled "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"


On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, before talking about anything, lets post our names...

---

my name is real name is juan cardenes, i and think mike is a bitch

---

ha ha.. that law won't apply to you anymore.
 

---

Posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE (Member # 4531) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SPEC -Fabrication:
Not only this buisness has had problems here, These last few months have really gotten outta hand on the abuse of threads ,Moderators should have been locking and deleting these post but would let them go on for Pages

---

ya..but seems that if the mods dnt like the place and people flame it they let it go..if someone was to talk shit bout cdt or some other shop the mods would lock and ban who everstarted it..when apex is brought up all they do is let it go and go then send it to street racing and let it go more
 

---

Posted by Dag302 (Member # 4682) on :
 
He has no lawsuit and is grasping at straws. This goes back to the days when "people" used to hack directv. They tried the digital millenium act to stop people. In the end they could not even shut down most websites due to freedom of speach. I myself will donate time or money to the site to keep it going. This guy just has no idea how to deal with the public. If he thinks that is slander he can pm me. I will give him my full name, social and blood type. I have a lot of free time transfer the ownership of the website to me and continue to bash....j/k. If people really have bad experiences they should say what happened just like if it was a positive one. Are they going after corral.net also cause I have seen a couple threads about people not happy with there seats. In the end if anyone has a problem with one of the pizzas from my place you better just eat it. If you tell someone it tasted bad...I WILL SUE YOU.
 

---

Posted by 87 (Member # 1549) on :
 
Man that's pety, and hypocritical, if I remember correctly, and I know I do, he was the one that started off with the false statements of a Newtech's shop in hayward about their lift for dyno "not being safe." And he'd never even seen it! ain't that some shit, now he's definitely sideways for this one

I say fight it - goto court do whatever, he can't take money from you if you don't have it, but if you get a good lawyer he'll find a way you can take it from him cuz he's loaded. That's how this leagal system works right!

then you can get your cobra back on the road and everyone can have free cafords calenders and t-shirts. even give some to apex to show no hard feelings.

Man i just crack myself up on this one to me. lol
 

---

Posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE (Member # 4531) on :
 
IF PEOPLE DNT LIKE APEX DONT GO THERE..IF PEOPLE DONT LIKE MIKE DONT DEAL WIT HIM..CHRIS AND EVERYTHONE THERE HELP ANYONE..
 

---

Posted by 87 (Member # 1549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:
Here is some info that I found..... Altough, its titled "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"


On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, before talking about anything, lets post our names...

---

my name is real name is juan cardenes, i and think mike is a bitch

---

hahahahahahha yea fuck that dude!

lolol

and my name is jesus de la cruz rodriguez estrada cabron chingon and te la meto a tu hija

[ April 04, 2006, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: 87 ]
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SPEC -Fabrication:
Not only this buisness has had problems here, These last few months have really gotten outta hand on the abuse of threads ,Moderators should have been locking and deleting these post but would let them go on for Pages

---

ya..but seems that if the mods dnt like the place and people flame it they let it go..if someone was to talk shit bout cdt or some other shop the mods would lock and ban who everstarted it..when apex is brought up all they do is let it go and go then send it to street racing and let it go more

---

How long does a mod have to stay on here and babysit? All of them have lives outside of cafords too and cant stay here 24/7 in shifts. The mods here do a pretty good job of keeping crazy posts down and move/delete them if needed.

This is a silly thing for him to do, personally, I think its already doing irrepparable damage to the image of both of his companies... I mean, how less likely are any of us to go there now that he has threatened the owner and mods of cafords?
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 87:

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:
Here is some info that I found..... Altough, its titled "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"


On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, before talking about anything, lets post our names...

---

my name is real name is juan cardenes, i and think mike is a bitch

---

hahahahahahha yea fuck that dude!

lolol

and my name is jesus de la cruz rodriguez estrada cabron chingon and te la meto a tu hija

---

i think my post should be post of the year

 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 87:

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 94gt:
Here is some info that I found..... Altough, its titled "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005"


On January 5, 2006, President Bush signed into law: H.R. 3402, the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act of 2005," which reauthorizes the Violence Against Women Act for for years 2007-2011, makes amendments to criminal and immigration law, consolidates major law enforcement grant programs and authorizes appropriations for the Department of Justice for for years 2006-2009. According to "TITLE I--ENHANCING JUDICIAL AND LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOLS TO COMBAT VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN, Section 113. Preventing Cyberstalking ... Whoever ... utilizes any device or software that can be used to originate telecommunications or other types of communications that are transmitted, in whole or in part, by the Internet ... without disclosing his identity and with intent to annoy, abuse, threaten, or harass any person ... who receives the communications ... shall be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

So, before talking about anything, lets post our names...

---

my name is real name is juan cardenes, i and think mike is a bitch

---

hahahahahahha yea fuck that dude!

lolol

and my name is jesus de la cruz rodriguez estrada cabron chingon and te la meto a tu hija

---

i think my post should be post of the year

---

lol, then you should be expecting a email too?
 

---

Posted by 9Venom9 (Member # 2805) on :
 
I can see this site will always feed off of Drama. Matt you said you are for a anti drama site but you yourself just put more wood in the fire. My days here are about over.
 

---

Posted by Team SOLO (Member # 722) on :
 
If I am not mistaken, CAFORDS is not doing anything illegal. Those breaking the laws would be those making the statements. Sounds like the only thing that owners/moderators of CAFORDS would be liable for would be supplying any/all user information if issued a subpoena.
 

---

Posted by silverstang2k1 (Member # 660) on :
 

quote:

---

I actually want to thank you for IP banning me.. it has saved me alot of time dealing with some of the garbage on Cafords. I also have been alerted by some of our good customers that we are being slammed and slandered unmercilessly on your site by a few users who have NEVER done business with us or met me. Many of these posts are without merit and slanderous. While I am grateful you still allow my employees to post and reply to people I would caution you CAfords is treading on waters you don't really want to get into.

I am not sure if you are aware of a new Federal law which "Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity" This law was passed last year under the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act." Sec. 113. You can read more abot it right here. It carries a maximum sentence of 2 years in prison
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.03402:

I do believe people have the right to voice their opinions. But not when they do it recklessly like some of your users have. When your users are posting false statements about people or companies then they have gone too far. If you continue to allow your users to slander me and harm my business I will have no choice but to take matters into my own hands. Please call me at XXX/XXX-XXX so we can discuss this matter OR you may reply by email. I expect action or a reply within 24 hours to this matter.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
Surplus Computers
SurplusComputers.com
Apex Motorsports

---

If ANYONE sent me that chite, I would have only one thing to say.....

KISS MY FRACKING ARSE!
 

---

Posted by Jmir018 (Member # 1414) on :
 
just go dude.. who's keeping you here? you have your own site. you disliked Mike too until you "spoke with him" which happened to be the same time he turned into your site's sponsor.
bye bye

[ April 04, 2006, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Jmir018 ]
 

---

Posted by 9COBRA8 (Member # 6) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SPEC -Fabrication:
Not only this buisness has had problems here, These last few months have really gotten outta hand on the abuse of threads ,Moderators should have been locking and deleting these post but would let them go on for Pages

---

ya..but seems that if the mods dnt like the place and people flame it they let it go..if someone was to talk shit bout cdt or some other shop the mods would lock and ban who everstarted it..when apex is brought up all they do is let it go and go then send it to street racing and let it go more

---

quote:

---

Here is the thread in question I spoke you about. Please do something about this jerk Fake Snake. He has never been to our shop or had any work done by us BUT he continuously says FUCK APEX just to start Drama on the board.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
President
Apex Motorsports
Surpluscomputers.com

---

quote:

---

Thank you for locking the thread as it was getting ridiculous. Why do users like Fake Snake 89 be allowed to make false and degrading statements about businesses? I understand the MODS have better things to do than to watch over these kids, BUT after repeated offenses like this AFTER warnings from Matt don’t you think they should be banned? Yes, this is America, but it is still not right to slander a company just because they do not like us. We have NEVER done anything to 89 Fake Snake and have never even done any business with him. I believe you should ban him so you can set a precedent and an example so other users do not just start slamming businesses without merit.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
President
Surpluscomputers.com

---

 

---

Posted by menlo pony (Member # 4301) on :
 
PMed relevant law. Good luck
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:
I can see this site will always feed off of Drama. Matt you said you are for a anti drama site but you yourself just put more wood in the fire. My days here are about over.

---

not to start shit with you, but i think you dont want to open your mouth and say something becuse your car is at apex and mike might want to cancel your warrenty.
 

---

Posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE (Member # 4531) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9COBRA8:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SPEC -Fabrication:
Not only this buisness has had problems here, These last few months have really gotten outta hand on the abuse of threads ,Moderators should have been locking and deleting these post but would let them go on for Pages

---

ya..but seems that if the mods dnt like the place and people flame it they let it go..if someone was to talk shit bout cdt or some other shop the mods would lock and ban who everstarted it..when apex is brought up all they do is let it go and go then send it to street racing and let it go more

---

89 FAKE SNAKE I resent your baseless accusations and would like to inform you that YOU, yes 89 FAKE SNAKE was one of the people he wanted banned from cafords. We stuck up for you, just as we would have stuck up for any other member.

quote:

---

Here is the thread in question I spoke you about. Please do something about this jerk Fake Snake. He has never been to our shop or had any work done by us BUT he continuously says FUCK APEX just to start Drama on the board.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
President
Apex Motorsports
Surpluscomputers.com

---

quote:

---

Thank you for locking the thread as it was getting ridiculous. Why do users like Fake Snake 89 be allowed to make false and degrading statements about businesses? I understand the MODS have better things to do than to watch over these kids, BUT after repeated offenses like this AFTER warnings from Matt don’t you think they should be banned? Yes, this is America, but it is still not right to slander a company just because they do not like us. We have NEVER done anything to 89 Fake Snake and have never even done any business with him. I believe you should ban him so you can set a precedent and an example so other users do not just start slamming businesses without merit.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
President
Surpluscomputers.com

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Luke87GT:


If cafords is not getting any money, I personally would do away with any and all advertising on this site. It all too often leads to drama.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:
I can see this site will always feed off of Drama. Matt you said you are for a anti drama site but you yourself just put more wood in the fire. My days here are about over.

---

Im right there with ya on that craig,

JMIR, I thought you were a stand up guy untill now, DO YOU EVEN NOW CRAIG? 9VENOM9! I have been here since early 2003 too, ALL my run ins with APEX have been GREAT ! seams we have too many Kids here tryn to be King of all the side shows, TOO much for Me
 

---

Posted by Venomized93 (Member # 55) on :
 
The way this was written is for the plaintiff. But read the last couple of sentences. He would have to prove everything which would be hard. Not only that, if he brought you to court and he lost. He would have to pay all your lawyers fees.

"Q: How do you address a situation where several dozen people used an online message board to direct excessively abusive commentary at you, hiding behind the First Amendment to do it? Exactly how would a victim of such harassment go about getting any kind of legal satisfaction?

A: We cannot tell from your email whether you would have any remedy for the abusive comments that have been addressed to you. Many comments about a person may be clearly offensive and yet nevertheless be protected under a variety of First Amendment doctrines. Although you may have a legal remedy for the statements, depending on the specifics, you should also be aware that under certain circumstances in California, a person who pursues legal remedies for statements in a public forum such as an internet chatroom may have to meet a higher burden of proof very early in the case and may have to pay the other sides' attorney's fees if the lawsuit does not meet that burden of proof. See California Code of Civil Procedure section 425.16."


Here is CA CODE of CIVIL procedure on 425.16:


Sec. 425.16. Claim Arising from Person's Exercise of Constitutional Right of Petition or Free Speech -- Special Motion to Strike.


(a) The Legislature finds and declares that there has been a disturbing increase in lawsuits brought primarily to chill the valid exercise of the constitutional rights of freedom of speech and petition for the redress of grievances. The Legislature finds and declares that it is in the public interest to encourage continued participation in matters of public significance, and that this participation should not be chilled through abuse of the judicial process. To this end, this section shall be construed broadly.


(b) (1) A cause of action against a person arising from any act of that person in furtherance of the person's right of petition or free speech under the United States or California Constitution in connection with a public issue shall be subject to a special motion to strike, unless the court determines that the plaintiff has established that there is a probability that the plaintiff will prevail on the claim.

(2) In making its determination, the court shall consider the pleadings, and supporting and opposing affidavits stating the facts upon which the liability or defense is based.

(3) If the court determines that the plaintiff has established a probability that he or she will prevail on the claim, neither that determination nor the fact of that determination shall be admissible in evidence at any later stage of the case, or in any subsequent action, and no burden of proof or degree of proof otherwise applicable shall be affected by that determination in any later stage of the case or in any subsequent proceeding.


(c) In any action subject to subdivision (b), a prevailing defendant on a special motion to strike shall be entitled to recover his or her attorney's fees and costs. If the court finds that a special motion to strike is frivolous or is solely intended to cause unnecessary delay, the court shall award costs and reasonable attorney's fees to a plaintiff prevailing on the motion, pursuant to Section 128.5.


(d) This section shall not apply to any enforcement action brought in the name of the people of the State of California by the Attorney General, district attorney, or city attorney, acting as a public prosecutor.


(e) As used in this section, "act in furtherance of a person's right of petition or free speech under the United States or California Constitution in connection with a public issue" includes: (1) any written or oral statement or writing made before a legislative, executive, or judicial proceeding, or any other official proceeding authorized by law; (2) any written or oral statement or writing made in connection with an issue under consideration or review by a legislative, executive, or judicial body, or any other official proceeding authorized by law; (3) any written or oral statement or writing made in a place open to the public or a public forum in connection with an issue of public interest; (4) or any other conduct in furtherance of the exercise of the constitutional right of petition or the constitutional right of free speech in connection with a public issue or an issue of public interest.


(f) The special motion may be filed within 60 days of the service of the complaint or, in the court's discretion, at any later time upon terms it deems proper. The motion shall be scheduled by the clerk of the court for a hearing not more than 30 days after the service of the motion unless the docket conditions of the court require a later hearing.


(g) All discovery proceedings in the action shall be stayed upon the filing of a notice of motion made pursuant to this section. The stay of discovery shall remain in effect until notice of entry of the order ruling on the motion. The court, on noticed motion and for good cause shown, may order that specified discovery be conducted notwithstanding this subdivision.


(h) For purposes of this section, "complaint" includes "cross-complaint" and "petition," "plaintiff" includes "cross-complainant" and "petitioner," and "defendant" includes "cross-defendant" and "respondent."


(i) An order granting or denying a special motion to strike shall be appealable under Section 904.1.


(j) (1) Any party who files a special motion to strike pursuant to this section, and any party who files an opposition to a special motion to strike, shall, promptly upon so filing, transmit to the Judicial Council, by e-mail or facsimile, a copy of the endorsed, filed caption page of the motion or opposition, a copy of any related notice of appeal or petition for a writ, and a conformed copy of any order issued pursuant to this section, including any order granting or denying a special motion to strike, discovery, or fees. (2) The Judicial Council shall maintain a public record of information transmitted pursuant to this subdivision for at least three years, and may store the information on microfilm or other appropriate electronic media.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY: Added by Stats.1992, c. 726 (SB 1264), sec. 2. Amended by: Stats.1993, c. 1239 (SB 9), sec. 1, adding subd. (i) and substituting "shall" for "may" preceding "award costs" in subd. (c); Stats.1997, c. 271 (SB 1296), sec. 1, adding last sentence in subd. (a), adding subd. (e)(4), numbering subds. (e)(1)-(3), moving second sentence of subd. (g) to be second sentence of subd. (f), adding new subd. (h), and relettering former subd. (h) as subd. (i); and Stats.1999, c. 960 (AB 1675), sec. 1, adding subds. (j) and (k). Amended by Stats. 2005, c. 535 (AB 1158), amending subds. (b)(3), (f), deleting old subd. (i), relettering accordingly, and amending subd. (j)(1).

Uncodified legislative intent for amendment to subd. (f): "It is the intent of the Legislature, in amending subdivision (f) of Section 425.16 of the Code of Civil Procedure, to overrule the decisions in Decker v. U.D. Registry, Inc. (2003) 105 Cal.App.4th 1382, 1387-1390, and Fair Political Practices Commission v. American Civil Rights Coalition, Inc. (2004) 121 Cal.App.4th 1171, 1174-1178." (Stats. 2005, c . 535, sec. 3.)
 

---

Posted by SPEC -Fabrication (Member # 4980) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1quik69:
I was thinking about taking my wifes 95 GT to apex for a dyno tune after we got through making some changes on it, but after reading a lot of the posts I'm not so sure now. Mike Mak needs to learn that people don't just randomly speak trash about businesses. If a customer is unhappy the business should do what it needs to do to make that customer happy. A satisfied customer will tell his friends about a good experience. But an unhappy, dissatisfied customer will tell anyone who will listen. If everything I have read on here is true, them Mike Mak needs to take a look at his own operation and clean it up there first. If the complaints are largely exaggerated, then maybe people should be careful about what they say regarding a business. Also, if you have a problem with a business, try to work it out with them first. If the problem can't be resolved, then see your attorney and file complaints with the better business bureau. Better business bureaus usually contact a business if they receive a complaint. That contact should let the business owner know he has a problem. And last but not least, if your not satisfied with the business, then spend your hard earned money somewhere else. There are a lot of good reputable business that work very hard to earn our business and they deserve to get it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Luke87GT:
IMHO, that email did more harm for APEX's reputation than anything that has been posted about them.

Nicely done APEX.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by SPEC -Fabrication:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 1quik69:
I was thinking about taking my wifes 95 GT to apex for a dyno tune after we got through making some changes on it, but after reading a lot of the posts I'm not so sure now. Mike Mak needs to learn that people don't just randomly speak trash about businesses. If a customer is unhappy the business should do what it needs to do to make that customer happy. A satisfied customer will tell his friends about a good experience. But an unhappy, dissatisfied customer will tell anyone who will listen. If everything I have read on here is true, them Mike Mak needs to take a look at his own operation and clean it up there first. If the complaints are largely exaggerated, then maybe people should be careful about what they say regarding a business. Also, if you have a problem with a business, try to work it out with them first. If the problem can't be resolved, then see your attorney and file complaints with the better business bureau. Better business bureaus usually contact a business if they receive a complaint. That contact should let the business owner know he has a problem. And last but not least, if your not satisfied with the business, then spend your hard earned money somewhere else. There are a lot of good reputable business that work very hard to earn our business and they deserve to get it.

---

SO If I buy a hamburger with out Mayo I should POST up about how they didnt LISTEN? I think most are POST whores here anyway and just post up Crap!

---

what? where did you get that from that?
 

---

Posted by 91Trunkster (Member # 6598) on :
 
I was going to give APEX my business for a dyno tune, I am glad I asked about their shop on this site as I was steered away from them. It eventually came down to me walking in their shop the other day, standing around for at least 5 minutes at the counter until anyone even acknowledged my friend and I were even standing in the shop. I basically wanted to speak with their tuner in regards to some issues I was having with my car, I was told that wasn't possible by the guy at the desk who asked one of the other two guys who was behind the counter that couldn't get up and acknowledge a customer in the shop. All I wanted was to talk with the tuner for 3 minutes max.

They couldn't make it happen and probably lost $700 worth of business. I don't know Mike Mak and don't really care too, I don't know the guy at the desk but I know he didnt try hard to get my business.

I called CDT, spoke with them for at least 10 minutes and gratley appreciate their service and their willinigness to listen, I will be doing business there in the near future.

APEX from my experience so far doesn't deserve my business, they had their chance and blew it.
 

---

Posted by Norcalbmxer (Member # 235) on :
 
This will go no-where.....heres why

#1
"Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity"

As long as IP's are logged, and people are not spoofing their IP's, commiting any type of online identity fraud ect, you are covered and have nothing to worry about.

#2 This law pertains to the people POSTING, not to the forums, websites or email servers of which they are using to deliver their message....IE: I can get sued, but as long as you can track their information, you are in the clear.

#3 He is pulling at straws, try to take an act passed and stretch to to be called online harrasment

#4 If the people posting have had dealings with said person, they have the RIGHT to voice their opinions in a forum they see fit to do so.


Dont worry, you still have the upperhand....

Remember if he really had a case to stand on he would have sent you a cease and disist order, not a bullsh*t email


ohh yeah #5

Good job posting this.....Having the balls to do so helps possible future customers know what kind of people they would be dealing with. By going public with this, you have made a great first step towards getting this resolved in a manner good for your site.

[ April 04, 2006, 02:02 AM: Message edited by: Norcalbmxer ]
 

---

Posted by 9Venom9 (Member # 2805) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by two-gun kid:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:
I can see this site will always feed off of Drama. Matt you said you are for a anti drama site but you yourself just put more wood in the fire. My days here are about over.

---

not to start shit with you, but i think you dont want to open your mouth and say something becuse your car is at apex and mike might want to cancel your warrenty.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jmir018:
just go dude.. who's keeping you here? you have your own site. you disliked Mike too until you "spoke with him" which happened to be the same time he turned into your site's sponsor.
bye bye

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norcalbmxer:
This will go no-where.....heres why

#1
"Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity"

As long as IP's are logged, and people are not spoofing their IP's, commiting any type of online identity fraud ect, you are covered and have nothing to worry about.

#2 This law pertains to the people POSTING, not to the forums, websites or email servers of which they are using to deliver their message....IE: I can get sued, but as long as you can track their information, you are in the clear.

#3 He is pulling at straws, try to take an act passed and stretch to to be called online harrasment

#4 If the people posting have had dealings with said person, they have the RIGHT to voice their opinions in a forum they see fit to do so.


Dont worry, you still have the upperhand....

Remember if he really had a case to stand on he would have sent you a cease and disist order, not a bullsh*t email

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norcalbmxer:
This will go no-where.....heres why

#1
"Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity"

As long as IP's are logged, and people are not spoofing their IP's, commiting any type of online identity fraud ect, you are covered and have nothing to worry about.

#2 This law pertains to the people POSTING, not to the forums, websites or email servers of which they are using to deliver their message....IE: I can get sued, but as long as you can track their information, you are in the clear.

#3 He is pulling at straws, try to take an act passed and stretch to to be called online harrasment

#4 If the people posting have had dealings with said person, they have the RIGHT to voice their opinions in a forum they see fit to do so.


Dont worry, you still have the upperhand....

Remember if he really had a case to stand on he would have sent you a cease and disist order, not a bullsh*t email

---

Number four his Mike's main point. MOst of The people who are taking shit never have dealt with Apex, but chose to talk shit cause it make them look cool.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:
First of I never dealt with apex and have no plans to deal with in the near future. It seems to me like Mike, the owner, is doing nothing wrong with this letter. HE NEVER SAYS NOT TO ALLOW ANYONE FROM POSTING NEGETIVE COMMENTS ABOUT HIS BUSINESS. IF YOU HAVE A BAD EXPERNICE IT’S OK TO SHARE IT.. He just wants people to stop taking shit for no reason. I as will as anyone who is on here every other day knows that the majority of the negative post on apex are from people who have never dealt with apex. Members for some reason just like to say “fuck apex” or “apex is hella shady business” like it’s a cool thing to say. 89 fake snake is a perfect example, and he admits it. He would talk shit and then he dealt with apex and no longer talks shit. Sorry for using your name 89 fake snake, but you are a good example.

---

 

---

Posted by 9Venom9 (Member # 2805) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:
First of I never dealt with apex and have no plans to deal with in the near future. It seems to me like Mike, the owner, is doing nothing wrong with this letter. HE NEVER SAYS NOT TO ALLOW ANYONE FROM POSTING NEGETIVE COMMENTS ABOUT HIS BUSINESS. IF YOU HAVE A BAD EXPERNICE IT’S OK TO SHARE IT.. He just wants people to stop taking shit for no reason. I as will as anyone who is on here every other day knows that the majority of the negative post on apex are from people who have never dealt with apex. Members for some reason just like to say “fuck apex” or “apex is hella shady business” like it’s a cool thing to say. 89 fake snake is a perfect example, and he admits it. He would talk shit and then he dealt with apex and no longer talks shit. Sorry for using your name 89 fake snake, but you are a good example.

---

---

 

---

Posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE (Member # 4531) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:
First of I never dealt with apex and have no plans to deal with in the near future. It seems to me like Mike, the owner, is doing nothing wrong with this letter. HE NEVER SAYS NOT TO ALLOW ANYONE FROM POSTING NEGETIVE COMMENTS ABOUT HIS BUSINESS. IF YOU HAVE A BAD EXPERNICE IT’S OK TO SHARE IT.. He just wants people to stop taking shit for no reason. I as will as anyone who is on here every other day knows that the majority of the negative post on apex are from people who have never dealt with apex. Members for some reason just like to say “fuck apex” or “apex is hella shady business” like it’s a cool thing to say. 89 fake snake is a perfect example, and he admits it. He would talk shit and then he dealt with apex and no longer talks shit. Sorry for using your name 89 fake snake, but you are a good example.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:
First of I never dealt with apex and have no plans to deal with in the near future. It seems to me like Mike, the owner, is doing nothing wrong with this letter. HE NEVER SAYS NOT TO ALLOW ANYONE FROM POSTING NEGETIVE COMMENTS ABOUT HIS BUSINESS. IF YOU HAVE A BAD EXPERNICE IT’S OK TO SHARE IT.. He just wants people to stop taking shit for no reason. I as will as anyone who is on here every other day knows that the majority of the negative post on apex are from people who have never dealt with apex. Members for some reason just like to say “fuck apex” or “apex is hella shady business” like it’s a cool thing to say. 89 fake snake is a perfect example, and he admits it. He would talk shit and then he dealt with apex and no longer talks shit. Sorry for using your name 89 fake snake, but you are a good example.

---

---

if u dnt like mike..dnt deal wit him..ya..im was like jus bout EVERYONE else on here..a friend went there and didnt like it so i didnt like it..well i dealt wit CHRIS and the other workers and was a good experience..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norcalbmxer:
This will go no-where.....heres why

#1
"Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity"

As long as IP's are logged, and people are not spoofing their IP's, commiting any type of online identity fraud ect, you are covered and have nothing to worry about.

#2 This law pertains to the people POSTING, not to the forums, websites or email servers of which they are using to deliver their message....IE: I can get sued, but as long as you can track their information, you are in the clear.

#3 He is pulling at straws, try to take an act passed and stretch to to be called online harrasment

#4 If the people posting have had dealings with said person, they have the RIGHT to voice their opinions in a forum they see fit to do so.


Dont worry, you still have the upperhand....

Remember if he really had a case to stand on he would have sent you a cease and disist order, not a bullsh*t email

---

Number four his Mike's main point. MOst of The people who are taking shit never have dealt with Apex, but chose to talk shit cause it make them look cool.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norcalbmxer:
This will go no-where.....heres why

#1
"Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity"

As long as IP's are logged, and people are not spoofing their IP's, commiting any type of online identity fraud ect, you are covered and have nothing to worry about.

#2 This law pertains to the people POSTING, not to the forums, websites or email servers of which they are using to deliver their message....IE: I can get sued, but as long as you can track their information, you are in the clear.

#3 He is pulling at straws, try to take an act passed and stretch to to be called online harrasment

#4 If the people posting have had dealings with said person, they have the RIGHT to voice their opinions in a forum they see fit to do so.


Dont worry, you still have the upperhand....

Remember if he really had a case to stand on he would have sent you a cease and disist order, not a bullsh*t email

---

Number four his Mike's main point. MOst of The people who are taking shit never have dealt with Apex, but chose to talk shit cause it make them look cool.

---

That and Slander.....

I still want to know why I was told that the Mods here are doing there best by preventing flame wars and slander here but yet leave all these posts open?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
Mike Mak has FUCKED his business more than ever this time! Not even his employees can save him from this one, BRILLIANT

---

 

---

Posted by 9Venom9 (Member # 2805) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norcalbmxer:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by cees87drop:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Norcalbmxer:
This will go no-where.....heres why

#1
"Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity"

As long as IP's are logged, and people are not spoofing their IP's, commiting any type of online identity fraud ect, you are covered and have nothing to worry about.

#2 This law pertains to the people POSTING, not to the forums, websites or email servers of which they are using to deliver their message....IE: I can get sued, but as long as you can track their information, you are in the clear.

#3 He is pulling at straws, try to take an act passed and stretch to to be called online harrasment

#4 If the people posting have had dealings with said person, they have the RIGHT to voice their opinions in a forum they see fit to do so.


Dont worry, you still have the upperhand....

Remember if he really had a case to stand on he would have sent you a cease and disist order, not a bullsh*t email

---

Number four his Mike's main point. MOst of The people who are taking shit never have dealt with Apex, but chose to talk shit cause it make them look cool.

---

That and Slander.....

I still want to know why I was told that the Mods here are doing there best by preventing flame wars and slander here but yet leave all these posts open?

---

regardless, if he has a problem with slander, he needs to take it up with the people that are slandering him, not with an innocent 3rd party.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5point0707:

quote:

---

Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
Mike Mak has FUCKED his business more than ever this time! Not even his employees can save him from this one, BRILLIANT

---

---

 

---

Posted by 9COBRA8 (Member # 6) on :
 
Thank you for your support and PMs everyone. It seems that we have a few law students and at least one person that has passed the bar and willing to help. We truely thrive off of our diversity and the resources our members contribute. Thank you everyone.
 

---

Posted by Fast_Bitch (Member # 2316) on :
 
you guys are keepin matt up hella late .. . .can this wait till tomarrow morning ???
 

---

Posted by 5point0707 (Member # 5893) on :
 
FOR CAFords!!!

 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SpdDevl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE:
AND TRUST ME..I REALLY DNT CARE BOUT MIKE..BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD GIVE THE WORKERS AND SALES A CHANCE..YA A BAD MANGER AND RUIN A BUS. BUT DNT FUCK IT UP FOR THA HARD WORKING PEOPLE THERE. THEY JUS SIT THERE AND WISH IT NEVER HAPPENED..IT AINT THERE FAULT..YA ITS MIKES BUT JUS LEAVE HIM OUT OF IT AND I BET ALOT MORE WOULD LIKE APEX..

---

This post reminded me of something I have to mention tonight. Just alittle background information, I work at a mortgage company in Pleasanton. Whenever a person applies for a "management" position (a position in which that person overseas a team of employees in direction, problem-solving, and money making) within the company, first things we ask is how they will portray themselves in representing this company. Whether Mike Mak, the person, is at the place of business or not, it is HIS company that you are giving business to. Him and his employees are a representation of HIMSELF and HIS BUSINESS. He is running the show and it doesnt matter if he is the front runner behind the counters or in the comfort of his own home. Chris and everyone else work for HIM so bottom line....If management is weak or unethical, its effects can show in his employees. How can someone dare say that just because the manager...better yet BUSINESS OWNER.....is horribly unethical and a bully....doesnt mean that the business as a whole is not bad.

Bottom line: He runs the company. Not Chris, Mario, Ed, etc.

Remember they work for HIM.

FYI: The mods and I were very disappointed upon recieving this email from Mike. We are merely giving our members equal rights to be informed of the future of this website we have all come to know and love.

---

im not even gonna comment on this one....
 

---

Posted by Red00GT (Member # 5653) on :
 
another word:

WOW!


i have never been nor did business with APEX...so my lips will be sealed.


mike for president


bwhaahahahahahaha.
 

---

Posted by 91Trunkster (Member # 6598) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 91Trunkster:
I was going to give APEX my business for a dyno tune, I am glad I asked about their shop on this site as I was steered away from them. It eventually came down to me walking in their shop the other day, standing around for at least 5 minutes at the counter until anyone even acknowledged my friend and I were even standing in the shop. I basically wanted to speak with their tuner in regards to some issues I was having with my car, I was told that wasn't possible by the guy at the desk who asked one of the other two guys who was behind the counter that couldn't get up and acknowledge a customer in the shop. All I wanted was to talk with the tuner for 3 minutes max.

They couldn't make it happen and probably lost $700 worth of business. I don't know Mike Mak and don't really care too, I don't know the guy at the desk but I know he didnt try hard to get my business.

I called CDT, spoke with them for at least 10 minutes and greatly appreciate their service and their willinigness to listen, I will be doing business there in the near future.

APEX from my experience so far doesn't deserve my business, they had their chance and blew it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
Mike Mak has FUCKED his business more than ever this time! Not even his employees can save him from this one, BRILLIANT

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by SpdDevl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 89 FAKE SNAKE:
AND TRUST ME..I REALLY DNT CARE BOUT MIKE..BUT I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD GIVE THE WORKERS AND SALES A CHANCE..YA A BAD MANGER AND RUIN A BUS. BUT DNT FUCK IT UP FOR THA HARD WORKING PEOPLE THERE. THEY JUS SIT THERE AND WISH IT NEVER HAPPENED..IT AINT THERE FAULT..YA ITS MIKES BUT JUS LEAVE HIM OUT OF IT AND I BET ALOT MORE WOULD LIKE APEX..

---

This post reminded me of something I have to mention tonight. Just alittle background information, I work at a mortgage company in Pleasanton. Whenever a person applies for a "management" position (a position in which that person overseas a team of employees in direction, problem-solving, and money making) within the company, first things we ask is how they will portray themselves in representing this company. Whether Mike Mak, the person, is at the place of business or not, it is HIS company that you are giving business to. Him and his employees are a representation of HIMSELF and HIS BUSINESS. He is running the show and it doesnt matter if he is the front runner behind the counters or in the comfort of his own home. Chris and everyone else work for HIM so bottom line....If management is weak or unethical, its effects can show in his employees. How can someone dare say that just because the manager...better yet BUSINESS OWNER.....is horribly unethical and a bully....doesnt mean that the business as a whole is not bad.

Bottom line: He runs the company. Not Chris, Mario, Ed, etc.

Remember they work for HIM.

FYI: The mods and I were very disappointed upon recieving this email from Mike. We are merely giving our members equal rights to be informed of the future of this website we have all come to know and love.

---

im not even gonna comment on this one....

---

that makes 2 of us.
 

---

Posted by Jmir018 (Member # 1414) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jmir018:
just go dude.. who's keeping you here? you have your own site. you disliked Mike too until you "spoke with him" which happened to be the same time he turned into your site's sponsor.
bye bye

---

I heard you bought a new skirt to try and regain your title as drama queen... is that true?

---

Yes, it fits quiet nicely too. wanna try it after i'm done?
 

---

Posted by n8y8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
I dont know if this was said but I visited my old Poli-Sci (ex-lawyer) Professor at UC Berkeley. And honestly he feels that owner of Apex has no lawsuit at all. You do have a disclaimer posted when a person signs up exonerating yourself and detaching caFords from the opinions of the posters. And you as the owners of this site are not facilitating anything. You basically provide a place where people can chat. And who is to say that the person posting has not done business there. And what about the people who have and slander them? And who is the one that determines the posts are without merit? There are way too many questions for Apex to even begin to make a case. You could end up owning Apex off the counter-suit alone. But I do understand, the fear of the legal process in general. AS it can be costly. But that dude is a serious bum for stooping to a new low with this threat. But this pretty much seals it. I personally will not step foot in that place. And will tell anyone I personally know to do the same. So actually they have done more harm to themselves once again.

I also have another good friend that is a lawyer, hit me up by PM and I can ask him questions for ya'll and he wont charge.


**edit**
Just read more threads this dude (Venomized93) said a mouthful in his thread. I think this case would get thrown out almost immediately. I think people should start reporting them to the BBB and then this Mike dude can deal with them. http://www.bbb.org/ , not sure if they have to be registered with the B.A.R association, but call them too if you have had a problem.

[ April 04, 2006, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: n8y8 ]
 

---

Posted by DennisG (Member # 163) on :
 
"We are only looking inform our members of the situation and get their advice on how to handle it."

Rather than get the advice from teenagers/20 somethings I would consult a lawyer on this matter.
 

---

Posted by 5.0-srt-4 (Member # 5864) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by DennisG:
"We are only looking inform our members of the situation and get their advice on how to handle it."

Rather than get the advice from teenagers/20 somethings I would consult a lawyer on this matter.

---

agreed 100% there are loopholes and he may have some kind of a case...
 

---

Posted by losbadgts (Member # 4394) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SmokeyBurnout:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5point0707:

quote:

---

Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:
Mike Mak has FUCKED his business more than ever this time! Not even his employees can save him from this one, BRILLIANT

---

---

---

this should be the post of the year.
mike u should get off the computer cause all u doing is making your employees suffer over your stupidity
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
and it keeps, going and going and going... i just wished this topic was not shown to the public, and kept very business-like. Mike kept it all business by just contacting the MODS, but then the mods threw it into the public, and made it a personal issue. business is business, and never personal. this became a personal matter once it was thrown into the publics (all of us) eyes...especially when the letter was posted with the name of the person who created it. this just put more fuel on the fire.....bad move to post this thread IMO.

[ April 04, 2006, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: Mach0ne351 ]
 

---

Posted by losbadgts (Member # 4394) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
and it keeps, going and going and going... i just wished this topic was not shown to the public, and kept very business-like. Mike kept it all business by just contacting the MODS, but then the mods threw it into the public, and made it a personal issue. business is business, and never personal. this became a personal matter once it was thrown into the publics (all of us) eyes...especially when the letter was posted with the name of the person who created it. this just put more fuel on the fire.....bad move to post this thread IMO.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
and it keeps, going and going and going... i just wished this topic was not shown to the public, and kept very business-like. Mike kept it all business by just contacting the MODS, but then the mods threw it into the public, and made it a personal issue. business is business, and never personal. this became a personal matter once it was thrown into the publics (all of us) eyes...especially when the letter was posted with the name of the person who created it. this just put more fuel on the fire.....bad move to post this thread IMO.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

Do you get a new sticker each time you post for them
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
typical kid comment bro..typical.
 

---

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
I was just curious
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

 

---

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
I think it was a valid question

WAIT, does Apex have one of those quarter machines like at Safeway. .25 gets you a plastic bubble with a sticker in each one?

I BET THAT'S IT
 

---

Posted by 03SVTPower (Member # 518) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

If it was so important, why not send the e-mail in letter format and send it certified mail?
 

---

Posted by n8y8 (Member # 6048) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5.0-srt-4:

quote:

---

Originally posted by DennisG:
"We are only looking inform our members of the situation and get their advice on how to handle it."

Rather than get the advice from teenagers/20 somethings I would consult a lawyer on this matter.

---

agreed 100% there are loopholes and he may have some kind of a case...

---

I highly doubt he has a case, but I agree with both statements. But it is good to bring this to the members here. And I dont think cafords exists as a entity. Meaning they have a tax id and report earning to the feds. With that being said, caFords is the members. And without the members there would not be a cafords. And it is the members he is complaining about. SO why not bring it to the forefront? It wasnt until now that I get that snake in the grass feeling from both Apex and Machone. Although I do agree with many things you have said about this topic in the past. I firmly believe you attachment to them is more than what you are letting on. You have more than a business stake in this matter.

[ April 04, 2006, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: n8y8 ]
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 
see that's what i mean....you guys THRIVE on drama! just shutup already and stop changing the topic....holy crap! your really showing your intelligence extremely well here amigo. good job!
 

---

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
just shutup already

---

Take YOUR OWN advice
 

---

Posted by 98slowhoe 'FIFTYLX' (Member # 895) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
and it keeps, going and going and going... i just wished this topic was not shown to the public, and kept very business-like. Mike kept it all business by just contacting the MODS, but then the mods threw it into the public, and made it a personal issue. business is business, and never personal. this became a personal matter once it was thrown into the publics (all of us) eyes...especially when the letter was posted with the name of the person who created it. this just put more fuel on the fire.....bad move to post this thread IMO.

---

I'm not a mod but he E-mailed for some reason? I don't want to talk to the guy. How is that keeping is personal when he is E-mailing me with excuses I could care less about?????

[ April 04, 2006, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: 98slowhoe 'FIFTYLX' ]
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SVTPower:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

If it was so important, why not send the e-mail in letter format and send it certified mail?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
just shutup already

---

Take YOUR OWN advice

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
both sides could have done things differently, but i seriously dont think this topic should have been brought out into the public. i mean LOOK! 7 pages of bs from everyone. haha and im included in that...

---

Look 30th response by you SAYING THE SAME THING

It's been said, NOW LEAVE
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by boostin1.8:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

If this is a business to business matter then YOU should not be posting on this as well. Mike is your boss just like the Mods are in charge here. We are just backing up OUR mods like like you are trying to back up YOUR boss. I told myself I wasn’t going to post on this but when you come here and try to bash Matt for posting this when it effects over 6k members then I have a problem. This site is ment for fellow car enthusiast to voice their opinions. I have been here over 4 years now and I have heard alot of good and bad things about APEX. It seems like Mike can’t take constructive criticism. I have seen post though were people have gone way overboard before even trying to deal with Apex which was wrong. I’m not going to sit here and ramble, the bottom line is that If a business was run like it should then there wouldn’t be this many complaints on one board.

---

mike is my boss? where did you hear that? haha mike cant pay my enough...sorry 6k members post? sure!!! comon now! i would say probably 1/6 of those actually still post...if that. and ive been hear as long as you have bro....ive seen ups and down for the name of apex too...nothing new to me. it just gets old for both side. i see where both you guys and apex are coming from. im in nuteral water. both sides could have avoided a lot of this....but that's life.
 

---

Posted by n8y8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
Hell why not bring this to the members? Without the 6k people here, there would be no cafords. Shit I would have done the same. Especially when threatened. Who knows there may be a lawyer or 2 out of this 6k, that would love to snatch the rug from under Apex. And he didnt even bring it out in a bad light. MachOne I swear it seems like they have more on you than "I just get my car worked on there". Are you related to them or something? I agree on many points with you. But you really arent bringing anything to the table to stop this. In fact you are almost egging it on with your sly remarks.

In the end I think Apex just royally screwed themselves. The word-of-mouth will have a resounding effect on his business. What next will he try to sue each individual for telling people not to go there? I think someone who has had work done there should get the BBB on them. And call the news and maybe 7 on your side will bust them out. I really think this dude has some serious moral and character flaws (and yes I never met him).

[ April 04, 2006, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: n8y8 ]
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:
The Members here are cafords, without us there wouldn't be a site so bring it to us was the professional way to handle it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by boostin1.8:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

If this is a business to business matter then YOU should not be posting on this as well. Mike is your boss just like the Mods are in charge here. We are just backing up OUR mods like like you are trying to back up YOUR boss. I told myself I wasn’t going to post on this but when you come here and try to bash Matt for posting this when it effects over 6k members then I have a problem. This site is ment for fellow car enthusiast to voice their opinions. I have been here over 4 years now and I have heard alot of good and bad things about APEX. It seems like Mike can’t take constructive criticism. I have seen post though were people have gone way overboard before even trying to deal with Apex which was wrong. I’m not going to sit here and ramble, the bottom line is that If a business was run like it should then there wouldn’t be this many complaints on one board.

---

mike is my boss? where did you hear that? haha mike cant pay my enough...sorry 6k members post? sure!!! comon now! i would say probably 1/6 of those actually still post...if that. and ive been hear as long as you have bro....ive seen ups and down for the name of apex too...nothing new to me. it just gets old for both side. i see where both you guys and apex are coming from. im in nuteral water. both sides could have avoided a lot of this....but that's life.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by boostin1.8:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by boostin1.8:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:
no. your wrong. this is a BUSINESS matter, cause 2 organizations are involved..apex and cafords. this needed to be handle privately with the people in charge of both, not us. this could have been handled a lot more professionally.

---

If this is a business to business matter then YOU should not be posting on this as well. Mike is your boss just like the Mods are in charge here. We are just backing up OUR mods like like you are trying to back up YOUR boss. I told myself I wasn’t going to post on this but when you come here and try to bash Matt for posting this when it effects over 6k members then I have a problem. This site is ment for fellow car enthusiast to voice their opinions. I have been here over 4 years now and I have heard alot of good and bad things about APEX. It seems like Mike can’t take constructive criticism. I have seen post though were people have gone way overboard before even trying to deal with Apex which was wrong. I’m not going to sit here and ramble, the bottom line is that If a business was run like it should then there wouldn’t be this many complaints on one board.

---

mike is my boss? where did you hear that? haha mike cant pay my enough...sorry 6k members post? sure!!! comon now! i would say probably 1/6 of those actually still post...if that. and ive been hear as long as you have bro....ive seen ups and down for the name of apex too...nothing new to me. it just gets old for both side. i see where both you guys and apex are coming from. im in nuteral water. both sides could have avoided a lot of this....but that's life.

---

I know what you mean, but I dont agree with you saying we shouldnt be notified when something like this is happening. ( thought you worked for APEX for some reason LOL Now I remember that they did work for you)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
last thing I am going to say then I quit this.

Case point. I saw someone try to bash JohnB for a hot second. Not only did dozens of people step up and vouch for him but most said hold on man, he'll take care of you. Then what happend? JohnB entered the thread got with the person, squared it away. End of story.

Same thing happened with HaulinAssMaro. dozens of people stepped up. He came in squared it away.

Now why dont the same thing happen for Apex? I'll tell you "You cant pour syrup on shit and make it pancakes". There has to be some truth to it because so many ralley around the screwed person. What you think everyone is wrong that complains? There has to be something wrong with his business practices ....that is my final .02. And suing caFords will not be a remedy.

---

 

---

Posted by Jdub07 (Member # 2728) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
"You cant pour syrup on shit and make it pancakes".

---

HAHAHAHAHAHA
 

---

Posted by Luke87GT (Member # 21) on :
 
This is a first and foremost a public board. There will always be pissing contests, disagreements, attacks, etc. We come from different walks of life and possess many different opinions. Not everyone on this board is professional, mature, or careful about that they say. Not everyone understands business dynamics and what word of mouth can do to a local business. This is normal, and happens on almost all message forums.

As a son of a business owner, I was always taken back by the fact that Apex even posts here. It reminds me of Granatelli on the corral.net
JR never won over anyone for a second by mixing it up with the board members.

If you are a business owner that bends over backwards, people will notice. If you try to get involved and mix it up in public forums with such a wide variety of people here, you will lose in the long run imho. There are just too many people behind the screen with mixed priorities and goals...

Apex, although the idea of a small business getting involved in a local board seems like a positive way to go, I think there is just too much negative potential and it backfired in a big way.

If you dabble in shit, it will start to stink. Sometimes its best to let things go.

Good luck to everyone and I am interested to see how this pans out.

[ April 04, 2006, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Luke87GT ]
 

---

Posted by SmokinLX (Member # 1684) on :
 
In this situation I think it is pretty obvious that there is a small and loyal following that likes apex and then You have a larger number of people that strongly dislike apex. For those of You that like apex the best thing You can do is let the thread die off on it's own instead of arguing with the masses. No one is going to sway the other side one way or the other, so just let the thread slowly die off. For the record I have not been to the Apex since Bill left so I have no first hand experience or opinion either way on apex. Basically it's a no win situation on this site for apex.
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by SmokinLX:
In this situation I think it is pretty obvious that there is a small and loyal following that likes apex and then You have a larger number of people that strongly dislike apex. For those of You that like apex the best thing You can do is let the thread die off on it's own instead of arguing with the masses. No one is going to sway the other side one way or the other, so just let the thread slowly die off.

---

ya, i already said my peace, and im just gonna let it go...
 

---

Posted by 5.0-srt-4 (Member # 5864) on :
 
its a simple fucking matter people...

if apex fucked you, you have every right to fuck them with bad mouthing them period.

if your friends cousins uncle got fucked by apex and you have no exp with them and you bad mouth them and say they do shitty work when you in fact never had work done..are a complete idiot. and are SLANDERING A COMPANY which is illegal.

with that being said if you never had work done there you have no clue what your talking about and if they fucked you and wasted your money fuck them bad mouth them and never return
 

---

Posted by GOT 50 (Member # 1960) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 5.0-srt-4:
its a simple fucking matter people...

if apex fucked you, you have every right to fuck them with bad mouthing them period.

if your friends cousins uncle got fucked by apex and you have no exp with them and you bad mouth them and say they do shitty work when you in fact never had work done..are a complete idiot. and are SLANDERING A COMPANY which is illegal.

with that being said if you never had work done there you have no clue what your talking about and if they fucked you and wasted your money fuck them bad mouth them and never return

---

Word of mouth. You can tell about other peoples experiences. Nopthing that says you cant. My ex girlfriends new boyfriends dad had a bad experience with apex; i have evry right to share there experience with the public. WORD OF MOUTH
 

---

Posted by 9Venom9 (Member # 2805) on :
 

 

---

Posted by n8y8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
lol...that is a funny picture... Is that a member from here...lol
 

---

Posted by Cobra5.0Jeep (Member # 1482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
lol...that is a funny picture... Is that a member from here...lol

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

I think your taking it too personal now.
Just from posting this picture i get the feeling you want to physically fight over this matter.
I don't think that is nessesary in this situation, since this is just a matter of opinion and disagreement.

---

Nice try there buddy...
 

---

Posted by 9Venom9 (Member # 2805) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
That is a member of the board? I thought it was a random photo. Yea that would be fighting material for me. Not a cool move, but a funny one.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

looks like u in high school
 

---

Posted by 9COBRA8 (Member # 6) on :
 
Please ignore Mach0ne351. He is sponsored by and a long time best friend of a top apex employee, but will not tell you guys that. He pretends to be a random loyal apex customer flooding his best friend's shop with positive reviews. This act alone is of questionable ethics, but he is not a bad guy, he is just protecting his best friend at all cost, even if its at the cost of a little Bill Clinton style honesty.

To those people that say we shouldn't have gone public with this. A) You're probably best friends with an apex employee but won't tell us, B) You're probably sponsored by Apex but won't tell us, or C) Both A & B are true, but you won't tell us.


You guys can either come out of the dark and be honest with your affiliation to the shop and its employees or you can stop trying to mess this thread up with your propoganda. I know you guys won't shed a tear if law suits shut down cafords or cost the moderators major dollars.


I know we had some lawyers and law students as members here and there was no better way, other than a mass email to all the members to find out who these members were.

The reason of this post was not to debate weather this information should have been released or not. Apex sponsored people, please don't clutter up this thread with your propganda if you don't have any legal advice to offer us. Make another post on the topic if you wish to discuss weather this thread should have been posted or not.

[ April 04, 2006, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: 9COBRA8 ]
 

---

Posted by Cobra5.0Jeep (Member # 1482) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

I think your taking it too personal now.
Just from posting this picture i get the feeling you want to physically fight over this matter.
I don't think that is nessesary in this situation, since this is just a matter of opinion and disagreement.

---

Nice try there buddy...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

I think your taking it too personal now.
Just from posting this picture i get the feeling you want to physically fight over this matter.
I don't think that is nessesary in this situation, since this is just a matter of opinion and disagreement.

---

Nice try there buddy...

---

what was i trying to do?
I was just stating how i felt the picture represented.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by losbadgts:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

looks like u in high school

---

I wish I dressed that good in HS, plus I drove a Escort not a fox body...
 

---

Posted by RioredGT (Member # 2300) on :
 
Wouldn't it be funny if this was one big April Fool's joke.... although it's a couple days late
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
lol...that is a funny picture... Is that a member from here...lol

---

goto google. type-in (in the images search) "e-thug", and youll get that pic i love it. i post it everywhere....

marek
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9COBRA8:
Please ignore Mach0ne351. He is sponsored by and a long time best friend of a top apex employee, but will not tell you guys that. He pretends to be a random loyal apex customer flooding his best friend's shop with positive reviews. This act alone is of questionable ethics, but he is not a bad guy, he is just protecting his best friend at all cost, even if its at the cost of a little Bill Clinton style honesty.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
Guess that explains the "Apex Credit Card".....lol. MachOne all you had to do was come out with your affiliation, no you really come across as a kiss-ass. But I cant complain, if I were sponsored (read: get free shit), from a company I would ride it until the wheels fell off too. Even if Mike Mak was going around slappin peoples momma's. So I dont blame you.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnB:
Uhhh, WOW.

I not going to bash APEX, I have zero reason to. What I will say is this...Mr. Mak, NOT APEX, has had every opportunity to make things right prior to his ban from the board. Ample opportunities were offered. The result? Nothing was done, the warnings he recieved from the Mod's went by the wayside, and he continued with his ways. Now, someone tells you to fix your shit, you fix your shit...right? Of course you do. You don't fix it, what happens...? You get what's coming to you. Honestly, I don't think he has a problem with anyone on the board. Sure, you have your one or two bashers, but they are everywhere...even off a public message board. I think this goes deeper than smacktalk. It has everything to do with losing business. I know, I know..."we've got plenty of cars and work to keep us busy". Seriously though, with word-of-mouth, how long do you think it will last? He loses a client base such as the potentials of CA Fords? Ya,ya...only 1/6th of the folks actually post up. How many lurk though? How many read posts and come to a conclusion without posting a SINGLE comment? A TON. Remember, first impressions are lasting impressions...and if a person can detect the slightest hint of negativity in a business, they will avoid that business, without ever stepping foot in the door. Obviously, the workers there aren't a problem, they still post here.
So what does this all lead to? It's the simple fact that he is upset about his removal from CA Fords.

Plain and simple.

---

right on the money
 

---

Posted by n8y8 (Member # 6048) on :
 
Anyway I do apologize MachOne, my comment was un-warranted and I dont want to turn this into a bash you thing (whether it is true or not I dont know and dont care). So I retract my comment, but I do know you cant un-spill milk, so I will just leave it alone as far as that goes. I was gonna apologize in a PM but I made a public remark so I'll make a public apology.

Now carry on with the topic.
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by n8y8:
Anyway I do apologize MachOne, my comment was un-warranted and I dont want to turn this into a bash you thing (whether it is true or not I dont know and dont care). So I retract my comment, but I do know you cant un-spill milk, so I will just leave it alone as far as that goes. I was gonna apologize in a PM but I made a public remark so I'll make a public apology.

Now carry on with the topic.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

I think your taking it too personal now.
Just from posting this picture i get the feeling you want to physically fight over this matter.
I don't think that is nessesary in this situation, since this is just a matter of opinion and disagreement.

---

Nice try there buddy...

---

what was i trying to do?
I was just stating how i felt the picture represented.

---

And you said this to the last 50 people who have posted this pic on here in the last year? Or just trying to create something else to argue over?

---

i have never seen this picture until you posted it.

[ April 04, 2006, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Cobra5.0Jeep ]
 

---

Posted by pharaoh (Member # 6355) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cobra5.0Jeep:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9Venom9:

---

I think your taking it too personal now.
Just from posting this picture i get the feeling you want to physically fight over this matter.
I don't think that is nessesary in this situation, since this is just a matter of opinion and disagreement.

---

Nice try there buddy...

---

what was i trying to do?
I was just stating how i felt the picture represented.

---

And you said this to the last 50 people who have posted this pic on here in the last year? Or just trying to create something else to argue over?

---

i have never seen this picture until you posted it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cummins:
I just read the 1st page of this thread. The rest is too long and too filled with BS. But LOL LMAO hhahahahahahohohohohohhehehehehehhe! Hey Mike are you saying that you're a women that is getting cyberstalked hahahahahhaa! Man you are a moron for even thinking like that.

To Mods,

Don't worry about a thing Mike has nothing, absolutely nothing. He's just BSing you to scare you.

I saw some words written on a bathroom stall when I was taking a dump. It said some bad things about Apex. A few other people wrote below and also agreed. So what is Mike to do, sue the owner of the bathroom stall? LOL! Well if he does decide to sue them I left a present for Mike in the toilet. Its about a foot long too.

---

Lmao!!!!!!
 

---

Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 
Let's try to keep this one on track guys... For the board?
 

---

Posted by BlueOvalRacing (Member # 1531) on :
 
This whole 11+ page message could have been avoided in my opinion.

I could care less about the whole apex vs. cafords fiasco other than the fact that this board could be shut down due to childish drama, but one thing does stand out to me.

Mak got banned for being an ass on the board and to the mods. Now, there are a few instigators that love to stir a pot that they have no business being in. Ban them also. This message board could use an EXTENSIVE cleansing of the worthless "post whores". There are more and more people on here that have nothing to add other than useless drama. It's to the point for me that I only stop by once a day for the classifieds, and to look for the posts of roughly 10 people tops, and the rest is just crap not worthy of anyone's time.

My suggestions to avoid this kind of "legal threat" would be:

1)Start giving out 1 time warnings, then a permanent ban to those that start drama for no reason.

2)Delete the post counter. Post counts are not a badge of honor. Never have been, never will be. The whole phrase "in before the lock" being used just proves the point.

3)Any bullshit posts from any member to another (bad dealings, rumors, etc.) that aren't dealt with in person, phone contact, or PM's first, get deleted by the mods and the instigator gets a minimum 30 day ban, next offense makes it permanent.

$.02, Paul
 

---

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlueOvalRacing:
2)Delete the post counter. Post counts are not a badge of honor. Never have been, never will be. The whole phrase "in before the lock" being used just proves the point.

---

 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlueOvalRacing:
This whole 11+ page message could have been avoided in my opinion.

I could care less about the whole apex vs. cafords fiasco other than the fact that this board could be shut down due to childish drama, but one thing does stand out to me.

Mak got banned for being an ass on the board and to the mods. Now, there are a few instigators that love to stir a pot that they have no business being in. Ban them also. This message board could use an EXTENSIVE cleansing of the worthless "post whores". There are more and more people on here that have nothing to add other than useless drama. It's to the point for me that I only stop by once a day for the classifieds, and to look for the posts of roughly 10 people tops, and the rest is just crap not worthy of anyone's time.

My suggestions to avoid this kind of "legal threat" would be:

1)Start giving out 1 time warnings, then a permanent ban to those that start drama for no reason.

2)Delete the post counter. Post counts are not a badge of honor. Never have been, never will be. The whole phrase "in before the lock" being used just proves the point.

3)Any bullshit posts from any member to another (bad dealings, rumors, etc.) that aren't dealt with in person, phone contact, or PM's first, get deleted by the mods and the instigator gets a minimum 30 day ban, next offense makes it permanent.

$.02, Paul

---

[ April 05, 2006, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Mach0ne351 ]
 

---

Posted by putter (Member # 4253) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlueOvalRacing:
This whole 11+ page message could have been avoided in my opinion.

I could care less about the whole apex vs. cafords fiasco other than the fact that this board could be shut down due to childish drama, but one thing does stand out to me.

Mak got banned for being an ass on the board and to the mods. Now, there are a few instigators that love to stir a pot that they have no business being in. Ban them also. This message board could use an EXTENSIVE cleansing of the worthless "post whores". There are more and more people on here that have nothing to add other than useless drama. It's to the point for me that I only stop by once a day for the classifieds, and to look for the posts of roughly 10 people tops, and the rest is just crap not worthy of anyone's time.

My suggestions to avoid this kind of "legal threat" would be:

1)Start giving out 1 time warnings, then a permanent ban to those that start drama for no reason.

2)Delete the post counter. Post counts are not a badge of honor. Never have been, never will be. The whole phrase "in before the lock" being used just proves the point.

3)Any bullshit posts from any member to another (bad dealings, rumors, etc.) that aren't dealt with in person, phone contact, or PM's first, get deleted by the mods and the instigator gets a minimum 30 day ban, next offense makes it permanent.

$.02, Paul

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by hidnn.o.s.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by BlueOvalRacing:
2)Delete the post counter. Post counts are not a badge of honor. Never have been, never will be. The whole phrase "in before the lock" being used just proves the point.

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by silverstang2k1:
What APEX needs is a SINGLE person that is responsible for posting and dealing with customers online. The person should have good professional customer service experience and a knowledge of automotive products and services. The person should be responsible for building good relationships with vendors and enthusiast and solve issues that exist or perceived.

---

Chris
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by silverstang2k1:
What APEX needs is a SINGLE person that is responsible for posting and dealing with customers online. The person should have good professional customer service experience and a knowledge of automotive products and services. The person should be responsible for building good relationships with vendors and enthusiast and solve issues that exist or perceived.

---

Christopher!
 

---

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
But Mike is doing such a stand up job as is
 

---

Posted by cdog301 (Member # 5136) on :
 
If you run a honest business and take care of your coustomers word of mouth will help you if not well you know.........................
 

---

Posted by 9COBRA8 (Member # 6) on :
 
I can not say Chris has been honest or trustworthy with me in the past. I do not however wish to disclose the details of my dealings with him online. I'm through dealing with this gang. He knows how honest he has been with me in the past and now, so do I.
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by silverstang2k1:
What APEX needs is a SINGLE person that is responsible for posting and dealing with customers online. The person should have good professional customer service experience and a knowledge of automotive products and services. The person should be responsible for building good relationships with vendors and enthusiast and solve issues that exist or perceived.

---

Christopher!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9COBRA8:
I can not say Chris has been honest or trustworthy with me in the past. I do not however wish to disclose the details of my dealings with him online. I'm through dealing with this gang. He knows how honest he has been with me in the past and now, so do I.

---

 

---

Posted by CMELEVU (Member # 2563) on :
 
Alright heres my take on this situation. I had a bad experience with a so called speed shop. So bad in fact that I took legal action against the shop. I gave the shop every chance to make it right, and when that didnt happen, I filed a small claims against the shop. Day of court came, presented my case, less than a half hour later, I'm walking away with a judgement in my favor. Settled up with the shop, and was done with the situation. NEVER, NEVER, once did I publicly speak bad about the shop. If someone asked an opinion about that particular shop, I would e-mail, or PM the person asking, and give a buyer beware warning. I never said "dont go there", just "be careful and know whats going on with your auto". Now I have heard from other people that that particular shop owner has said all kinds of statements about me, but I feel that I got the upper hand on him and his business ethics. So if this site is shut down because people do not know how to act accordingly then that is a shame.
 

---

Posted by CobramanPhil (Member # 2170) on :
 
Well to be honest I have always had good experiences with Apex (even in the Bill Kaiser days). Prices were high, but hey they were local and they took care of me. I have always praised Apex even when others have had bad experiences that did not seem to get fixed (party due to both sides missing the mark on communicating their concerns to each other). Now that this email lawsuit-threat-whatever has come out from Mike I would more then likely stay away from the shop just on principle alone(even though I got pretty good service whenever I was at the shop). That was a very bad move..business wise anyway to attack a free forum with a lawsuit. I'd say a better one would be to concentrate on service to prove that the shop is not really bad. Your not going to make every customer happy, but if you are consistent it will all be beneficial in the end....and that is good business.

[ April 05, 2006, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: CobramanPhil ]
 

---

Posted by 03SHKER (Member # 1397) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9COBRA8:
I can not say Chris has been honest or trustworthy with me in the past. I do not however wish to disclose the details of my dealings with him online. I'm through dealing with this gang. He knows how honest he has been with me in the past and now, so do I.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:

quote:

---

Originally posted by 9COBRA8:
I can not say Chris has been honest or trustworthy with me in the past. I do not however wish to disclose the details of my dealings with him online. I'm through dealing with this gang. He knows how honest he has been with me in the past and now, so do I.

---

What the hell are you talking about. I'm in the middle of a job and a friend. Even if I wanted to, I can't pick a side. Think about it Matt. If I say I take your side over it, I've put my job in danger. If I say I take Mikes side, I lose a friend. I have to walk a very thin line here, and try to keep both sides happy. So no, I have not told anyone how I feel about all this, so don't even say some sh*t like that.

---

like ive always said, business is business, and should never be personal.
 

---

Posted by NavidR (Member # 3164) on :
 
To try to protect your company is onething, but to write a letter like this is BS, As a owner of a company you should know people talk Shit all the time, some customers will like you and some will talk Shit. Its all part of owning a buisness.

personally i'm so tired of reading about APEX drama.

Navid
 

---

Posted by Eddie510 (Member # 2354) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by 03SHKER:
At first I wasn't going to post this, but I told Mike I would.

To All Cafords Members,

First thing I would like to do is to apologize to everyone for this fiasco. My intent was not to cause drama on this site NOR was it ever intended to be perceived as a way to shut down the site.

I am not against free speech at all. I believe people should be allowed to post whatever they want as long as it is an actual experience, good or bad, with us you are more than free to share it with others. My main problem is when people are posting negative things about me or my shop when they have never met me, do not have all the facts, or have any actual experience with the shop. I have even tried to reach out to the Cafords community with a Apex Open House and many of you came out and had a great time. Unfortunately, some people who did come out still accussed me of being a Money Hungry Jerk. Ask anyone who has actually met me or knows me personally and they will tell you I am far from a Money Hungry Jerk….. I don’t live in Atherthon, don’t have Rolex Watches (Except the one my father gave me 25 yrs ago), only wear T-Shirts and Jeans, and pretty much am just a average joe who just happens to have 2 businesses. I make a comfortable living but am FAR from rich. In fact, I was raised in a very blue collar 1st generation immigrant family from China.

One of my biggest assets and obviously problematic issues, is I care very deeply for my friends, customers, business, and family. I am an extremely loyal person to the people in my life and take it personally when they are attacked. Unfortunately, I have learned being a business owner automatically disqualifies me from responding the same way a non-business owners would.

My goal has NEVER been to shut down CAfords.com. I am not trying to sensor people but only am trying to protect myself, employees, and customers.



Again, I apologize to everyone involved is this matter. My door has always been open to everyone and anyone. If you have any comments please feel free to contact me at 408/327-0420 Ext.101 or mmak@surpluscomputers.com. OR if you would like to talk to me in person just stop on by the shop and I will gladly take a 5 minute drive from my office to chat with you.

Sincerely,


Mike Mak

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jdub07:
the end.

---

 

---

Posted by Jmir018 (Member # 1414) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mach0ne351:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jdub07:
the end.

---

---

why can't you just stop posting? it seems that you have a response for everything.
were the little smilies necessary?
 

---

Posted by hidnn.o.s. (Member # 1219) on :
 
lol, I assure you Mike didn't write that up himself. He probably had his employees or lawyer write it up.

He's come on here, talked shit about another shop with a dyno, told MULTIPLE people they are idiots and are wrong when "discussing" how things should be done on Mustangs, he's called a members boss to get him in trouble because he didn't agree with Mike online, threatened legal action against moderators here, threatened to have this site shut down, ETC, ETC, ETC.

Mike, You've done it. Don't now come here and say you didn't mean for this and that, WHEN IT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU WROTE IN THE EMAIL WORD FOR WORD etc.

Take a lesson from Jason Giambi. Come on, say you are VERY SORRY, YOU WERE WRONG, and the door is open. THEN LEAVE IT AT THAT, PERIOD.

Best advice you could get, and you still won't know what to do with it.......
 

---

Posted by 89FOX (Member # 4273) on :
 
I have nothing bad to say about Apez or Mike. Ive dealt with them and they are cool people.
I am by no means taking sides! it goes both ways if people say a lot of bad shit about you and u dont know them, youre going to wonder why? my o2
 

---

Posted by Mach0ne351 (Member # 927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jmir018:
why can't you just stop posting? it seems that you have a response for everything.
were the little smilies necessary? [/QB]

---

 

---

Posted by 50 Deep (Member # 6216) on :
 
Hella drama. this is startin to remind me of sacstangs. j/p

[ April 05, 2006, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: 50 Deep ]
 

---

Posted by Rob [5LVENOM] (Member # 2282) on :
 
Time to do some major house cleaning on this site for sure.
 

---

Posted by HaulinAssMaro (Member # 541) on :
 
off to streetracing.........................
 

---

Posted by HaulinAssMaro (Member # 541) on :
 
This whole deal has reminded me of the AMP thread that hit a few different Mustang sites a few years ago. A bunch of people were pissed because of how something was handled with a customer,and only heard the customers SIDE OF THE STORY and jumped to conclusions,then EVERYONE jumped the bandwagon talking shit about AMP.Well if anyone has delt with AMP personally they would know they are some straight up guys. Every PSCA race I have attended that they have been at they have always been always been kewl people,will take the time to talk to you about parts,their car etcc... and put on one badass BBQ,and they make enough food to feed this entire web site Time has moved on and they are still in business and you don't hear the bullshit anymore..............


But back to this particular subject I'm not taking sides as I have NOTHING to gain trying to. I enjoy coming here and I buy ALL my Nitrous thru APEX usually dealing with Mario,who I have known for over 13 years,Chris who has always been a stand up dude in my book in the times I have delt with him,and well Ponytail dude(sorry forgot your name) .I have never ran into Mike in all the times I have been there so I haven't had the opportunity to meet him in person. I have however talked to him on the phone numerous amount of times and he seemed like a straight up dude,from what I got out of the conversations is that he's just really interested in business and the automotive/mustang community.

I work on a lot of the members cars here as well and as much as you try,not everyone is going to be 100% happy that's the nature of the buisness.In the event that does happen I try my hardest to make them happy with what work they had done,or make it right somehow,again you can never make EVERYONE happy,sometimes not even charging the person just to keep the word of mouth thing in good standing.Now take a high volume shop,the percentage of issues can rise and can come off looking bad,even though 98% of the other customers are happy.


Word of mouth is the SINGLE BIGGEST advertisement for any buisness.It can be good or bad. I have read a lot of the replies and there were some legitimate gripes but to me it reminded me of what happened to AMP,people jumping the bandwagon,which IMO is PURE BULLSHIT,but not excusing the bad issues,but yet there are 2 sides to every story,and from past experience,if you tell you side of what happened people think your trying to "defend yourself" even though its just that,your side of the story.And that's the bad thing about computers you really dont see how people are coming at a situation,and thats when shit gets blown out of proportion.....

Now,how Mike went about this may not be the way any of us would have done,but when the guy is banned maybe he felt that was the only choice he had and what "HE" feels necessary(still not agreeing or taking sides with anyone,let that be known)

I say this post should be put away,locked down and let both parties just relax and get on with other shit/life.If the problem keeps arising then take action from there(that goes for both sides


NOTE: As always these are just my opinions,you can agree or not.................
 

---

Posted by putter (Member # 4253) on :
 
I think the moderators here are smart enough to figure out whats needs to be done around here.


I think APEX would rock, If every once in a while the words "what would make you happy" came to the table from Mike, that doesnt mean bend over and take it in the ass but it would encourage negotiations. Everytime a problem came up here it was always hush, hide and deny. The reply earlier was the best thing I have heard from APEX. APEX is just gonna have to weather the storm and reverse the negative comments.
 

---

Posted by Eddie510 (Member # 2354) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by HaulinAssMaro:
This whole deal has reminded me of the AMP thread that hit a few different Mustang sites a few years ago. A bunch of people were pissed because of how something was handled with a customer,and only heard the customers SIDE OF THE STORY and jumped to conclusions,then EVERYONE jumped the bandwagon talking shit about AMP.Well if anyone has delt with AMP personally they would know they are some straight up guys. Every PSCA race I have attended that they have been at they have always been always been kewl people,will take the time to talk to you about parts,their car etcc... and put on one badass BBQ,and they make enough food to feed this entire web site Time has moved on and they are still in business and you don't hear the bullshit anymore..............


But back to this particular subject I'm not taking sides as I have NOTHING to gain trying to. I enjoy coming here and I buy ALL my Nitrous thru APEX usually dealing with Mario,who I have known for over 13 years,Chris who has always been a stand up dude in my book in the times I have delt with him,and well Ponytail dude(sorry forgot your name) .I have never ran into Mike in all the times I have been there so I haven't had the opportunity to meet him in person. I have however talked to him on the phone numerous amount of times and he seemed like a straight up dude,from what I got out of the conversations is that he's just really interested in business and the automotive/mustang community.

I work on a lot of the members cars here as well and as much as you try,not everyone is going to be 100% happy that's the nature of the buisness.In the event that does happen I try my hardest to make them happy with what work they had done,or make it right somehow,again you can never make EVERYONE happy,sometimes not even charging the person just to keep the word of mouth thing in good standing.Now take a high volume shop,the percentage of issues can rise and can come off looking bad,even though 98% of the other customers are happy.


Word of mouth is the SINGLE BIGGEST advertisement for any buisness.It can be good or bad. I have read a lot of the replies and there were some legitimate gripes but to me it reminded me of what happened to AMP,people jumping the bandwagon,which IMO is PURE BULLSHIT,but not excusing the bad issues,but yet there are 2 sides to every story,and from past experience,if you tell you side of what happened people think your trying to "defend yourself" even though its just that,your side of the story.And that's the bad thing about computers you really dont see how people are coming at a situation,and thats when shit gets blown out of proportion.....

Now,how Mike went about this may not be the way any of us would have done,but when the guy is banned maybe he felt that was the only choice he had and what "HE" feels necessary(still not agreeing or taking sides with anyone,let that be known)

I say this post should be put away,locked down and let both parties just relax and get on with other shit/life.If the problem keeps arising then take action from there(that goes for both sides


NOTE: As always these are just my opinions,you can agree or not.................

---

daaamn, good one night owl
 

---

Posted by two-gun kid (Member # 5891) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by HaulinAssMaro:
This whole deal has reminded me of the AMP thread that hit a few different Mustang sites a few years ago. A bunch of people were pissed because of how something was handled with a customer,and only heard the customers SIDE OF THE STORY and jumped to conclusions,then EVERYONE jumped the bandwagon talking shit about AMP.Well if anyone has delt with AMP personally they would know they are some straight up guys. Every PSCA race I have attended that they have been at they have always been always been kewl people,will take the time to talk to you about parts,their car etcc... and put on one badass BBQ,and they make enough food to feed this entire web site Time has moved on and they are still in business and you don't hear the bullshit anymore..............


But back to this particular subject I'm not taking sides as I have NOTHING to gain trying to. I enjoy coming here and I buy ALL my Nitrous thru APEX usually dealing with Mario,who I have known for over 13 years,Chris who has always been a stand up dude in my book in the times I have delt with him,and well Ponytail dude(sorry forgot your name) .I have never ran into Mike in all the times I have been there so I haven't had the opportunity to meet him in person. I have however talked to him on the phone numerous amount of times and he seemed like a straight up dude,from what I got out of the conversations is that he's just really interested in business and the automotive/mustang community.

I work on a lot of the members cars here as well and as much as you try,not everyone is going to be 100% happy that's the nature of the buisness.In the event that does happen I try my hardest to make them happy with what work they had done,or make it right somehow,again you can never make EVERYONE happy,sometimes not even charging the person just to keep the word of mouth thing in good standing.Now take a high volume shop,the percentage of issues can rise and can come off looking bad,even though 98% of the other customers are happy.


Word of mouth is the SINGLE BIGGEST advertisement for any buisness.It can be good or bad. I have read a lot of the replies and there were some legitimate gripes but to me it reminded me of what happened to AMP,people jumping the bandwagon,which IMO is PURE BULLSHIT,but not excusing the bad issues,but yet there are 2 sides to every story,and from past experience,if you tell you side of what happened people think your trying to "defend yourself" even though its just that,your side of the story.And that's the bad thing about computers you really dont see how people are coming at a situation,and thats when shit gets blown out of proportion.....

Now,how Mike went about this may not be the way any of us would have done,but when the guy is banned maybe he felt that was the only choice he had and what "HE" feels necessary(still not agreeing or taking sides with anyone,let that be known)

I say this post should be put away,locked down and let both parties just relax and get on with other shit/life.If the problem keeps arising then take action from there(that goes for both sides


NOTE: As always these are just my opinions,you can agree or not.................

---

your shop for the win
 

---

Posted by Lilghoust (Member # 20) on :
 
I dont have anything derogatory to say about apex. They are a busy shop and charge a pretty penny and they have been around for a while so they must be doing something good to stay afloat.
 

---

Posted by modular (Member # 6599) on :
 
Little late there buddy.

[ December 01, 2006, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: modular ]
 

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Posted by WRS92GT (Member # 5008) on :
 
I think that CAFords as a community has the right to know if a shop is doing something questionable or not. This is a web forum for cars and performance and the people whom spend their hard earned money at an establishment should know if the shop in question has had or has "issues".

I think that Mr. Mak's approach/attitude towards the entire CAFords community is poor. I think he'll never regain people's trust as a businessman if follows through with his threat of legal action. Simply put, if you're good at what you do/sell the people will come find you. If you tell people how great you are, you're either an egomaniac or a poorly disaplined businessman.

[ December 01, 2006, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: WRS92GT ]
 

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Posted by Jmir018 (Member # 1414) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by WRS92GT:
I think that CAFords as a community has the right to know if a shop is doing something questionable or not. This is a web forum for cars and performance and the people whom spend their hard earned money at an establishment should know if the shop in question has had or has "issues".

I think that Mr. Mak's approach/attitude towards the entire CAFords community is poor. I think he'll never regain people's trust as a businessman if follows through with his threat of legal action. Simply put, if you're good at what you do/sell the people will come find you. If you tell people how great you are, you're either an egomaniac or a poorly disaplined businessman.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 91 5.0 5speed:
If I understand this correctly It is o.k. to talk about apex if you have a bad experience with them as long as you give your true identity? every law has loopholes but I think you should ban any and everyone having to do with that shop and be done with them. They can't totally censor someone from giving their opinion, That is a violation of the first amendment.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 9COBRA8:
Hello everyone. As you know, myself and the moderators here donate our spare time, resources and even money if need be to keep CaliforniaFords.com going. CaliforniaFords.com is and always has been a 100% free service for Northern California Ford Owners. It is strictly up kept by our member’s donated resources. We like to think CaliforniaFords.com is a great place to buy/sell Ford parts, give/get tech advice on upgrading or repairing your Ford or find out about local car races and shows.


As you may or may not be aware, a few customers of a particular shop have complained about the shops services and people have questioned the shops ethics on CaliforniaFords.com. We all know this particular shop is owned by an extremely rich and powerful person who owns multiple successful businesses. More than once this individual has tried to muscle CaliforniaFords.com moderators into seeing things his way, weather it has been telling us to delete post or ban users. We have always politely refused his wishes and gave him no special treatment or services because of his financial or political status.


CaliforniaFords.com is simply a neutral medium to exchange automotive information of a local nature. With that said, it looks like we have imminent legal action being taken against us for allowing a certain level of freedom to all parties involved on our forums.

The following email was sent to us:

quote:

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I actually want to thank you for IP banning me.. it has saved me alot of time dealing with some of the garbage on Cafords. I also have been alerted by some of our good customers that we are being slammed and slandered unmercilessly on your site by a few users who have NEVER done business with us or met me. Many of these posts are without merit and slanderous. While I am grateful you still allow my employees to post and reply to people I would caution you CAfords is treading on waters you don't really want to get into.

I am not sure if you are aware of a new Federal law which "Prohibits the posting of annoying Web messages or sending annoying e-mail messages without disclosing your true identity" This law was passed last year under the "Violence Against Women and Department of Justice Reauthorization Act." Sec. 113. You can read more abot it right here. It carries a maximum sentence of 2 years in prison
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.03402:

I do believe people have the right to voice their opinions. But not when they do it recklessly like some of your users have. When your users are posting false statements about people or companies then they have gone too far. If you continue to allow your users to slander me and harm my business I will have no choice but to take matters into my own hands. Please call me at XXX/XXX-XXX so we can discuss this matter OR you may reply by email. I expect action or a reply within 24 hours to this matter.

Sincerely,

Mike Mak
Surplus Computers
SurplusComputers.com
Apex Motorsports

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(we censored his phone number)


Since CaliforniaFords.com is a service to the community, up kept by donated time and resources of our members, what do you think we should do? Myself and the moderators I’ve spoken to clearly do not want to go to jail. We also don’t want to pay any legal fees and go to court for allowing our members to post both positive and negative reviews about a local shop. Our hands are tied.


We want to warn our members that if you see CaliforniaFords.com shut down in the near future, it will be due to the apparent imminent legal action the individual quoted above is bringing against the people that keep CaliforniaFords.com running.


Please keep your replies civil. I hold the right to lock this post or remove profane replies. We are only looking inform our members of the situation and get their advice on how to handle it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by 1968_Fastback:
WTF? This post is years old. No one should be commenting on this anymore since its done with. Who the hell brought this back up?

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Well coming up on 8mos old
 

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Posted by xchpstang (Member # 1206) on :
 
Well I just read it til today. Glad it's over.
 

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Posted by 94gt (Member # 3060) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by 03SVTPower:

quote:

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Originally posted by 1968_Fastback:
WTF? This post is years old. No one should be commenting on this anymore since its done with. Who the hell brought this back up?

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Well coming up on 8mos old

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Lol!

this is why!
http://www.californiafords.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001008
 

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Posted by 50DADDY (Member # 3076) on :
 
Maybe theyve never heard of a little thing called freedom of speech.
Whatever the case they/he sound like bithches to me.Get over it Apex!People have died to give us this right.
Oh,and my identity is Jeff Lane of Sacramento,Ca.So there Apex!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by 50DADDY (Member # 3076) on :
 
Oops,just read the above.
My opinion still stands though.
 

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Posted by Curt (Member # 6254) on :
 
somebody should threaten a class action lawsuit agianst them for shitty buisness practices, oh and this IS my real name so he can F**k Off
 

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Posted by saleen_freak (Member # 6521) on :
 
Hey if the business does bad business people will talk. Peroid. Its good to know where NOT to go. Didn't this place get shut down before? Why cry now? Its been bad.
 

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Posted by on :
 

 

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